heavyarms
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Iam for public checks, let the public know that what we are doing is legal!
Iam for public checks, let the public know that what we are doing is legal!
I would like to be a good will ambassador on behalf of the UOC crowd... I will choose to be a bit more flexible and help extend the olive branch to the folks wearing the badges (up to or until I have an "unprofessional encounter").
Great Explanation. These are my feelings as well.Hi All,
As a resident of Livermore ("Livermoron", duh) I don't mind doing the "e check" this time with any officer that may show up. We all know it violates our rights (no matter how the CA PC reads). That being said, I would like to be a good will ambassador on behalf of the UOC crowd. Also, this will be "in public", just a block down the street from the meetup location.
Wait - This does not mean I will choose to "roll over" on the issue(s) involved. To meet some of the local officers in a "friendly setting" seems like a good (even if not required) idea to kick things off. Familiar faces, hand shakes, etc.
I, of course, FULLY support all of you who choose not to "line up" for the e-check. However, as this meetup is "out of the bag", the PD will be around and likely enforcing the CA PC. Thus, the likelihood of being stopped and e-checked is high anyway. In this case, why not make it a "meet-and-greet" instead of a us/them thing?
As more and more of us take to the streets carrying in our day to day lives the perceived stigma by the general public and LE will wear off and we can happily exercise our rights without as many hassles . Until then, I will choose to be a bit more flexible and help extend the olive branch to the folks wearing the badges (up to or until I have an "unprofessional encounter").
This does not mean I will place a phone call to an officer whenever I UOC. I was UOC tonight on my way home from Manteca. I went to get gas here in town, checked my mail, etc. Then had to lock it up as I got closer to home as I live in a GFSZ :banghead: .
I truly hope to see MANY of you out here in Livermore tomorrow for the meetup. Please do not be put off by the likely LE presence. You are going to encounter a LEO at some point while UOC. If you have not yet, and want to "pop the (insert name of well known fruit here)", then show up a little early and "...come on down, you're the next contestant on E-Check!" :lol:
Carry On,
Livermoron
Yes, it's in the clear.Did ya'll measure the 1000' to the alley location? Hate to see entrapment being tried again and succeeding...
That alley way is across the street from the coffee house. I wont even be parking near there.Happy New Year!
A friend that plans to attend tomorrow's meeting informed me that officers' from the LPD have requested that open carriers meet with them prior to the beginning of the demonstration to conduct a 12031 (e) check, as oppose to doing so in front of Panama Red Coffee, which is a high traffic location with lots of people present.
LPD Cpt. Scott Trudeau has agreed that the meeting with officers will only involve the 12031 (e) check, andnothing else.
My friend and several others that plan to participate have already agreed to meet with LPD officers at around 10:30-10:45 AM in an alley way just north-westof the Panama Red Coffee Company location.
The alley way is between 2058 and 2068 1st Street, Livermore. The alley wayconnects to a shopping center parking lot.
SeeHERE
This is entirely the wrong attitude in my opinion. You're making it seem like we're doing something wrong, we are not. The police don't get to check our IDs or run our serial numbers unless they come into plain view and even then they can't detain you while they run it. It's like we're not even exercising a right, we're getting permission to follow the law, while at the same time being happy that the police will follow the law and not willfully violate it.I think the issue here is that some of the people open carrying reside in Livermore and would like to avoid negative interactions with the police department to the extent that it's possible. The fact that the police agreed to ONLY the (e) check is why it's being considered. Supposedly, the police are aware of the law and will not be asking for ID or running serial numbers.
A friend that plans to attend tomorrow's meeting informed me that officers' from the LPD have requested that open carriers meet with them prior to the beginning of the demonstration to conduct a 12031 (e) check, as oppose to doing so in front of Panama Red Coffee, which is a high traffic location with lots of people present.
LPD Cpt. Scott Trudeau has agreed that the meeting with officers will only involve the 12031 (e) check, andnothing else.
I think the issue here is that some of the people open carrying reside in Livermore and would like to avoid negative interactions with the police department to the extent that it's possible. The fact that the police agreed to ONLY the (e) check is why it's being considered. Supposedly, the police are aware of the law and will not be asking for ID or running serial numbers.
We now know the police read this forum and know about the meetup. This means there will be an (e) check at some point whether we like it or not. Personally, I'd prefer to get it over with right away.
I seriously cannot believe what I'm reading! Unloaded open carry and 12031(e) checks are an abomination...they're to be loathed and abhorred, its anabuse of state power and infringes on your protected liberties granted to you by your Creator, not your government. But don't take my word for it...Livermoron wrote:I would like to be a good will ambassador on behalf of the UOC crowd... I will choose to be a bit more flexible and help extend the olive branch to the folks wearing the badges (up to or until I have an "unprofessional encounter").
Liv- You're probably playing it correctly. We do need to establish good relations with police, and by cooperating it would give them a sense of what lawfully armed people are about- Im sure that most of the time when they check for weapons, it is usually as a result of an encounter with a criminal and this could acclimate their department to activists/ambassadors who are on their side and share the desire to be the deterent to criminal behavior.
Perhaps we should give them one (e) check under their terms (all lined up, orderly, subject to approval)... after that, I'd say that if they wanted to conduct another (e) check, they will need to do it as is, where is- under the scrutiny of bystanders.
I guess the part I still don't understand is why some of us feel like we aren't being friendly or cooperative unless we go out of our way to make it easy for police officers to violate our fourth amendment rights.Until California law(s) are substantially changed we will have to keep the bile down, and submit ourselves (when demanded to do so) to an e-check by LEO's :banghead: . I don't mind as much, for now, doing a "friendly" one while biting my tongue.
Gentlemen (and Ladies - you know who you are), please don't think less of me for my somewhat reluctant cooperation during this meetup . I am a rabid 2A (and all the rest of course) supporter and will stand, AND NOT BACK DOWN, with all of you when needed on the issues that affect our rights. I send in my extra $100 each year to NRA-ILA and $ to other "gun causes" during the year. My cooperation comes in this instance based on a courteous request from LPD. A "demand" would have been met with a kind, "See you a Panama Red, good day".
Though not a legislator's position, you can look here for a pro-2A candidate:Changing the direction of the topic a bit - - - Does anyone know a local (or anywhere in CA) candidate that is a Constitutionalist, or at least a true Conservative, that will stand up to put forth legislation in CA, or nationally, that will negate the PC 12031e and other statutes that violate our right to keep and bear arms? If so, let me know and I will support their effort to achieve the office.
Seems reasonable to me. Of course, if the police officers aren't there I hope you don't feel obligated to wait around for them.I will be parking in the general area and then walking to the meetup at Panama Red. I was going to walk through the "gauntlet" anyway. As this meetup is in a very public setting the likelihood of the e-check was high so I came to the conclusion that I would treat the LEO interaction as an opportunity (while choaking on the bile of my 4A rights being trampled) to meet more of the LEO's here in my home town.
Livermoron wrote:Seems reasonable to me. Of course, if the police officers aren't there I hope you don't feel obligated to wait around for them.I will be parking in the general area and then walking to the meetup at Panama Red. I was going to walk through the "gauntlet" anyway. As this meetup is in a very public setting the likelihood of the e-check was high so I came to the conclusion that I would treat the LEO interaction as an opportunity (while choaking on the bile of my 4A rights being trampled) to meet more of the LEO's here in my home town.
I've previously not open carried at an event because of the requests going around to stand down. For this event I will be carrying solely because Livermore PD has decided to police our presence. I hope other departments (like San Jose) will choose to allow us to exist without being contacted provided that we act in a normal manner.
Hope everybody drives safely.