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OC and Police issues

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Those noble principles have long been rendered obsolete.
By who, you ask?
Why the "law enforcement community," of course.

You can do what you want ( I won't stop you) in choosing a career, but I certainly could find a more honorable profession to pursue, maybe one where you actually have to PLEASE your customers.
Hint: any time you have to cover your face to do your job, that should be a wakeup call.
 

barf

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mark edward marchiafava wrote:
Those noble principles have long been rendered obsolete.
By who, you ask?
Why the "law enforcement community," of course.

You can do what you want ( I won't stop you) in choosing a career, but I certainly could find a more honorable profession to pursue, maybe one where you actually have to PLEASE your customers.
Hint: any time you have to cover your face to do your job, that should be a wakeup call.
Mr. Marchiafava, are you going to reply to any open carry issues presented to you or are you just here to spew your rhetoric?
 

LA Confederate

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Who said anything about a career? My desire to be in the reserves is voluntary and beneficial. My profession is construction, which I have been doing in various capacities for well over a decade now.

But that's a moot point as I did not come here for your approval nor the approval of anyone else. I'm here to promote firearm ownership. You suggested a demonstration of sorts in JP. So let's focus on that for now and see if we can develop a plausible plan.
 

suntzu

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mark edward marchiafava wrote:
Hint: any time you have to cover your face to do your job, that should be a wakeup call.
I have read about a few other "groups" who cover their faces....thing is, society generally terms them criminals...funny how that works isn't it...
 

LA Confederate

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suntzu wrote:
mark edward marchiafava wrote:
Hint: any time you have to cover your face to do your job, that should be a wakeup call.
I have read about  a few other "groups" who cover their faces....thing is, society generally terms them criminals...funny how that works isn't it...

Covering your face is no more a crime than wearing baggy pants half way down to your knees. Trying to make any connection between facial covering and criminality is preposterous.
 

suntzu

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LA Confederate wrote:
suntzu wrote:
mark edward marchiafava wrote:
Hint: any time you have to cover your face to do your job, that should be a wakeup call.
I have read about a few other "groups" who cover their faces....thing is, society generally terms them criminals...funny how that works isn't it...

Covering your face is no more a crime than wearing baggy pants half way down to your knees. Trying to make any connection between facial covering and criminality is preposterous.
As for covering your face being a crime--Please see Louisiana Revised Statute 14:313
which reads
[align=justify]§313. Masks or hoods, wearing in public places prohibited; penalty; exceptions; permit to conduct Mardi Gras festivities, how obtained; wearing of hoods, masks, or disguises or giving of candy or other gifts by sex offenders[/align] [align=justify]A. No person shall use or wear in any public place of any character whatsoever, or in any open place in view thereof, a hood or mask, or anything in the nature of either, or any facial disguise of any kind or description, calculated to conceal or hide the identity of the person or to prevent his being readily recognized.[/align] [align=justify]B. Whoever violates this Section shall be imprisoned for not less than six months nor more than three years.[/align] [align=justify]C. Except as provided in Subsection E of this Section, this Section shall not apply:[/align] [align=justify](1) To activities of children on Halloween, to persons participating in any public parade or exhibition of an educational, religious, or historical character given by any school, church, or public governing authority, or to persons in any private residence, club, or lodge room.[/align] [align=justify](2) To persons participating in masquerade balls or entertainments, to persons participating in carnival parades or exhibitions during the period of Mardi Gras festivities, to persons participating in the parades or exhibitions of minstrel troupes, circuses, or other dramatic or amusement shows, or to promiscuous masking on Mardi Gras which are duly authorized by the governing authorities of the municipality in which they are held or by the sheriff of the parish if held outside of an incorporated municipality.[/align] [align=justify](3) To persons wearing head covering or veils pursuant to religious beliefs or customs.[/align] [align=justify]D. All persons having charge or control of any of the festivities set forth in Paragraph B(2) of this Section, shall, in order to bring the persons participating therein within the exceptions contained in Paragraph B(2), make written application for and shall obtain in advance of the festivities from the mayor of the city, town, or village in which the festivities are to be held, or when the festivities are to be held outside of an incorporated city, town, or village, from the sheriff of the parish, a written permit to conduct the festivities. A general public proclamation by the mayor or sheriff authorizing the festivities shall be equivalent to an application and permit.[/align] [align=justify]E. Every person convicted of or who pleads guilty to a sex offense specified in R.S. 24:932, is prohibited from using or wearing a hood, mask or disguise of any kind with the intent to hide, conceal or disguise his identity on or concerning Halloween, Mardi Gras, Easter, Christmas, or any other recognized holiday for which hoods, masks, or disguises are generally used.[/align] [align=justify]Acts 1999, No. 1043, §1; Acts 2008, No. 400, §1.[/align]
SO, by their very acts according to this LRS--any law enforcement officer who hides his/her face is committing a crime under Louisiana law, just like you would if you put a mask on in public. But I digress--I don't want to derail the original thread.
 

LA Confederate

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suntzu wrote:
How odd...the police make that connection on a regular basis. Wear baggy pants halfway down to your knees, and carry a gun in a shoulder rig and let's see how fast you are face down on the pavement getting your rights violated based only on their unfounded suspicions.

Unfounded? Are you really that naive to believe this tripe? Give me a freaking break. Or do I need to go get you crime statistics that show those of a certain group who favor the baggy pants commit the overwhelming majority of violent crime? It's simple statistics and common sense.

suntzu wrote:
- deleted -

Mods can we do something about the incessant police bashing and garbage like this? I mean really. This is the biggest load of bravo sierra that I've seen spewed in this forum thus far.
 

LA Confederate

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suntzu wrote:
SO, by their very acts according to this LRS--any law enforcement officer who hides his/her face is committing a crime under Louisiana law, just like you would if you put a mask on in public.  But I digress--I don't want to derail the original thread.

I guess that makes me a criminal since I wear my ghillie suit to hunt with on public lands. Oh and everyone doing a job that requires full face respirators to conduct business are also criminals.

Niggling over facial coverings. Damn that's just sad.
 

barf

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suntzu wrote:
LA Confederate wrote:
suntzu wrote:
mark edward marchiafava wrote:
Hint: any time you have to cover your face to do your job, that should be a wakeup call.
I have read about a few other "groups" who cover their faces....thing is, society generally terms them criminals...funny how that works isn't it...

Covering your face is no more a crime than wearing baggy pants half way down to your knees. Trying to make any connection between facial covering and criminality is preposterous.
As for covering your face being a crime--Please see Louisiana Revised Statute 14:313
which reads
[align=justify]
§313. Masks or hoods, wearing in public places prohibited; penalty; exceptions; permit to conduct Mardi Gras festivities, how obtained; wearing of hoods, masks, or disguises or giving of candy or other gifts by sex offenders
[/align][align=justify]
A. No person shall use or wear in any public place of any character whatsoever, or in any open place in view thereof, a hood or mask, or anything in the nature of either, or any facial disguise of any kind or description, calculated to conceal or hide the identity of the person or to prevent his being readily recognized.
[/align][align=justify]
B. Whoever violates this Section shall be imprisoned for not less than six months nor more than three years.
[/align][align=justify]
C. Except as provided in Subsection E of this Section, this Section shall not apply:
[/align][align=justify]
(1) To activities of children on Halloween, to persons participating in any public parade or exhibition of an educational, religious, or historical character given by any school, church, or public governing authority, or to persons in any private residence, club, or lodge room.
[/align][align=justify]
(2) To persons participating in masquerade balls or entertainments, to persons participating in carnival parades or exhibitions during the period of Mardi Gras festivities, to persons participating in the parades or exhibitions of minstrel troupes, circuses, or other dramatic or amusement shows, or to promiscuous masking on Mardi Gras which are duly authorized by the governing authorities of the municipality in which they are held or by the sheriff of the parish if held outside of an incorporated municipality.
[/align][align=justify]
(3) To persons wearing head covering or veils pursuant to religious beliefs or customs.
[/align][align=justify]
D. All persons having charge or control of any of the festivities set forth in Paragraph B(2) of this Section, shall, in order to bring the persons participating therein within the exceptions contained in Paragraph B(2), make written application for and shall obtain in advance of the festivities from the mayor of the city, town, or village in which the festivities are to be held, or when the festivities are to be held outside of an incorporated city, town, or village, from the sheriff of the parish, a written permit to conduct the festivities. A general public proclamation by the mayor or sheriff authorizing the festivities shall be equivalent to an application and permit.
[/align][align=justify]
E. Every person convicted of or who pleads guilty to a sex offense specified in R.S. 24:932, is prohibited from using or wearing a hood, mask or disguise of any kind with the intent to hide, conceal or disguise his identity on or concerning Halloween, Mardi Gras, Easter, Christmas, or any other recognized holiday for which hoods, masks, or disguises are generally used.
[/align][align=justify]
Acts 1999, No. 1043, §1; Acts 2008, No. 400, §1.
[/align]

SO, by their very acts according to this LRS--any law enforcement officer who hides his/her face is committing a crime under Louisiana law, just like you would if you put a mask on in public. But I digress--I don't want to derail the original thread.
We also have the statute previous to this one - Louisiana Revised Statute 14:312 - on the books, but I'm sure it can be waived for folks like you.

Yes, I'm sure you don't want to derail the original thread.

 

suntzu

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LA Confederate wrote:
Mods can we do something about the incessant police bashing and garbage like this? I mean really. This is the biggest load of bravo sierra that I've seen spewed in this forum thus far.

Bashing? So you approve of violations of Constitutional rights? You don't think a violation of a Constitutional right is a crime?


Bravo Sierra? What makes it BS--because I don't think the police should be allowed to violate our rights at will without being criminally liable for it? I'm sorry--I believe in the Constitution and think that if our rights are violated--the person(s) who did it should be criminally responsible and prosecuted.
 

suntzu

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LA Confederate wrote:
suntzu wrote:
SO, by their very acts according to this LRS--any law enforcement officer who hides his/her face is committing a crime under Louisiana law, just like you would if you put a mask on in public. But I digress--I don't want to derail the original thread.

I guess that makes me a criminal since I wear my ghillie suit to hunt with on public lands. Oh and everyone doing a job that requires full face respirators to conduct business are also criminals.

Niggling over facial coverings. Damn that's just sad.
You said--and I quote "Covering your face is no more a crime than wearing baggy pants half way down to your knees. Trying to make any connection between facial covering and criminality is preposterous."

To which I presented LRS 14:313--you simply don't like being proven wrong. I'm not niggling over anything--I merely presented the law to you that says it is illegal to cover your face in public so that you can't be readily identified.
 

LA Confederate

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suntzu wrote:
Bashing?  So you approve of violations of Constitutional rights?  You don't think a violation of a Constitutional right is a crime? 

I approve of cops doing their job to take scum bags off the street instead of making me have to worry about them coming to assault me. If this requires them profiling and using deductive reasoning to do so then so be it.

suntzu wrote:
Bravo Sierra?  What makes it BS--because I don't think the police should be allowed to violate our rights at will without being criminally liable for it?  I'm sorry--I believe in the Constitution and think that if our rights are violated--the person(s) who did it should be criminally responsible and prosecuted.

If a law was broken then they are liable so long as the law was itself legal and was legally adopted. Plain and simple .
 

suntzu

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barf wrote:
We also have the statute previous to this one - Louisiana Revised Statute 14:312 - on the books, but I'm sure it can be waived for folks like you.

Yes, I'm sure you don't want to derail the original thread.

No actually I don't want to derail the thread.
 

LA Confederate

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suntzu wrote:
To which I presented LRS 14:313--you simply don't like being proven wrong.  I'm not niggling over anything--I merely presented the law to you that says it is illegal to cover your face in public so that you can't be readily identified.

Well then lump me in with the criminals because I will not obey any law that lacks common sense and violates my natural rights.
 

suntzu

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LA Confederate wrote:
suntzu wrote:
Bashing? So you approve of violations of Constitutional rights? You don't think a violation of a Constitutional right is a crime?

I approve of cops doing their job to take scum bags off the street instead of making me have to worry about them coming to assault me. If this requires them profiling and using deductive reasoning to do so then so be it.

suntzu wrote:
Bravo Sierra? What makes it BS--because I don't think the police should be allowed to violate our rights at will without being criminally liable for it? I'm sorry--I believe in the Constitution and think that if our rights are violated--the person(s) who did it should be criminally responsible and prosecuted.

If a law was broken then they are liable so long as the law was itself legal and was legally adopted. Plain and simple .
And while that is true--how often has law enforcement been held criminally responsible when they violate the law or our rights? It has to be a gross violation in order to get anything done--but the view of the government seems to be--if it involved a 4A violation--well we have to give up some rights to get security...and THAT is Bravo Sierra, and yet any Constitutional rights violation is a crime--at least under 18 USC 242...
 

barf

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suntzu wrote:
barf wrote:
We also have the statute previous to this one - Louisiana Revised Statute 14:312 - on the books, but I'm sure it can be waived for folks like you.

Yes, I'm sure you don't want to derail the original thread.

No actually I don't want to derail the thread. As for your earlier comment about statistics about the correlation between baggy pants and crime...baggy pants in and of itself is not a determiner of crime-no more that is OC'ing a firearm in public in the state of Louisiana, Va, Ky, or any other non-permit required OC state--but how often are OC'ers approached by the police and then suffer the indignity of 4A violations for a non-crime?

OC of a firearm in Louisiana is not a crime--and yet how often has it drawn response from the police? How about in Virginia?
Those weren't my comments.

Please, stay on topic or start another thread... hopefully in your own state's forum.
 

suntzu

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LA Confederate wrote:
suntzu wrote:
To which I presented LRS 14:313--you simply don't like being proven wrong. I'm not niggling over anything--I merely presented the law to you that says it is illegal to cover your face in public so that you can't be readily identified.

Well then lump me in with the criminals because I will not obey any law that lacks common sense and violates my natural rights.
I'm not lumping you in with anyone--but if the police would arrest you for a violation of the law--then they should be subject to the same laws and the same penalties--if they are not subjected to them, then neither should we be. That is my point in all of this.
 

LA Confederate

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That I can agree with. LEOs must obey the same laws as everyone else as they are still citizens under the law when they are not on duty. And you're right they should be held accountable for violation of those laws as long as those laws are legally passed and are themselves not in violation of Constitutional principles.
 

suntzu

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barf wrote:
suntzu wrote:
barf wrote:
We also have the statute previous to this one - Louisiana Revised Statute 14:312 - on the books, but I'm sure it can be waived for folks like you.

Yes, I'm sure you don't want to derail the original thread.

No actually I don't want to derail the thread. As for your earlier comment about statistics about the correlation between baggy pants and crime...baggy pants in and of itself is not a determiner of crime-no more that is OC'ing a firearm in public in the state of Louisiana, Va, Ky, or any other non-permit required OC state--but how often are OC'ers approached by the police and then suffer the indignity of 4A violations for a non-crime?

OC of a firearm in Louisiana is not a crime--and yet how often has it drawn response from the police? How about in Virginia?
Those weren't my comments.

Please, stay on topic or start another thread... hopefully in your own state's forum.
redacted.
 

suntzu

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LA Confederate wrote:
That I can agree with. LEOs must obey the same laws as everyone else as they are still citizens under the law when they are not on duty. And you're right they should be held accountable for violation of those laws as long as those laws are legally passed and are themselves not in violation of Constitutional principles.
And if they violate a single right--they have stepped over the line and have themselves become criminals.

And yet they are not held accountable criminally--because if the DOJ would start prosecuting for 4A violations--I guarantee you a lot of the problems we have with rights abuses would stop.

And they are citizens under the law even when they are on duty--they, and the government they serve just like to try and exempt them from the same laws that the common man is expected to obey.
 
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