Results 1 to 23 of 23

Thread: Conversation with LEO in Concord last night on UOC

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Livermore, California, USA
    Posts
    229

    Post imported post

    Hi ODCO,

    As the title says, I was at a Starbucks (not practicing UOC) in Concord last night when 6 Concord PD officers came in to get coffee (go figure).

    While 2 of them were waiting for their Java I walked over and greeted them and asked what their policy on 12031(e) was? One of the officers quickly replied, "Well, It's the law." To which I politely replied, "...Of course, but what is the policy in Concord on how to handle encounters in the field with a person practicing UOC."

    At this point the officer went into what sounded like a fairly rehearsed polite litany of reasons (mostly about officer safety) why he did not agree with UOC while ending with "...but it is your right, and I don't want to take away anyone's rights." There was mention of being drawn down on, and "...you'll likely be treated like a criminal until proven otherwise." :shock:

    My family was in a bit of a rush, so I could not continue very long with the several minute conversation, but I never did get a real explanation of the department policy in Concord on how officers should handle encounters with UOC'ers.

    Oh well :?

  2. #2
    Regular Member OPS MARINE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    , California, USA
    Posts
    392

    Post imported post

    I would say then to go about your life, make sure you understand what their stance is and OC there (in Concord) if you choose to, while exersising GREAT care to be mindful of your surroundings.
    "Most people respect the badge. Everybody... respects the gun."

  3. #3
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    San Francisco Bay Area, ,
    Posts
    78

    Post imported post

    I live in Concord and have communicated with the Lt. in my district quite a bit over the years. I e-mailed and asked her a couplemonths ago about UOC and whether it was legal.I got the same response from her. She said it is legal but that if confronted by the Concord Police, I would have guns drawn on me for the officers safety!

    Trust me, I know the CPD very well! I've had many encounters with them over the years on my bike rides late at night after work. Some of the officers here (Not all) think they're above the law!

    I would never Open Carry here out in public just because of some of the attitudes from the CPD officers. I've witnessed it 1st hand more than once. They can be a real pain in the ass sometimes over something little. I've had my rights violated by them more than once. They have a history of stopping people without probable cause here in Concord just to check your I.D..

  4. #4
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Whatcom County
    Posts
    17,338

    Post imported post

    Than you folks need separate parties recording from a distance and personal video/voice recorder. Until you break the law there is no reason to be treated like a criminal.

    This attitude is not uncommon in police forces (especially city cops), the only way to stop it is to go through it and then have a threat of a lawsuit on them.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  5. #5
    State Researcher
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Stanislaus County, California, USA
    Posts
    2,586

    Post imported post

    I was told exactly the same thing... almost verbatim. I think you would find their bark is bigger than their bite.

    It's becoming obvious this is departmental procedure (even if not officially). I think one would be in a great position to file a federal civil suit if one were to be subjected to such abuse of power.

    However, I believe most departments respond well to complaints, IA investigations, and the threat of civil liability. Most departments change their strategy once they realize that it's not worth the liability risk they create in trying to stop what we're doing. Most of them already realize we're not a threat and we're not going away.
    Participant in the Free State Project - "Liberty in Our Lifetime" - www.freestateproject.org
    Supporter of the CalGuns Foundation - http://www.calgunsfoundation.org/
    Supporter of the Madison Society - www.madison-society.org


    Don't Tread On Me.

  6. #6
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Whatcom County
    Posts
    17,338

    Post imported post

    Too bad you didn't have a recorder running, it would be good to show they premeditated any abuses they would later subject you too.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  7. #7
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    San Francisco Bay Area, ,
    Posts
    78

    Post imported post

    I'm definitely carrying my recorder on all my bike rides for now on. I haven't been stopped since I filed a complaint against the Concord Police after Thanksgiving. Hopefully it stays that way. All they know is that I did speak to an attorney for legal advice. I put upit with it for 7 years until I finally filed a complaint against the city. I made it clear to their seargent that I was always being stopped without probable cause. I got some excuses though because of ongoing crime/break-ins in the commercial area where I ride. They always have to need an excuse.

  8. #8
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Escondido, California, USA
    Posts
    1,140

    Post imported post

    I say call them on it.

    Each time I hear an officer say anything like that, it just makes me want to sling my Saiga with no ID and some 30rd mags and walk in front of a police station...





    ... on my way to get some ice cream.

  9. #9
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Whatcom County
    Posts
    17,338

    Post imported post

    I'm in the same camp as you Pullnshoot.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Folsom, , USA
    Posts
    389

    Post imported post

    sudden valley gunner wrote:
    I'm in the same camp as you Pullnshoot.
    I have to sort of agree. I mean I do not like to hear about police bringing in their personal view into managing the law. There is no law being broken, no reason to draw upon an individual. For all they know every person could be a walking threat with a gun, are they going to pull on every person? The majority of us who OC do so for the exact same reason a LEO does, for protection. I hate when they say.. "well then just apply for a CCW". Oh right, because Kalifornia is shall issue all of a sudden. Many LEO's conceal while off-duty, what gives them the right of self defense as a normal citizen and not me?:? - then again, this tirade is coming from someone who has yet to OC. I would much rather just be able to conceal and dismiss the attention brought upon like being drawn on... though I am not afforded that option here.

  11. #11
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Livermore, California, USA
    Posts
    229

    Post imported post

    I forgot to mention that the Concord LEO that I spoke with also suggested "...then why not just get a CCW?"

    OMG (as my daughter would say)!!!

    Yeah, right. I explained to him that Alameda, Contra Costa, and most other Bay Area counties will not issue a CCW permit unless you have a VERY rare "justification" for the CCW permit. You know, like, being Diane Feinstein, or the Sheriff's golfing buddy, etc.

    He actually suggested I, "...go get one in another county". :shock: Isn't that a crime? You would have to establish false residency to pull that off.



    Livermoron

  12. #12
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    San Francisco Bay Area, ,
    Posts
    78

    Post imported post

    From what I've heard, you can get a CCW Permit from any county. I've heard that from several different people. My buddy here in Concord, got his CCW up in Redding. He used to live upin Redding years ago but went up there recently to get his permit.

    I was denied my CCW Permit by the Chief of Police here in Concord last year! His office said that they don't issue them here in Concord. He's also running for Sheriff here in Contra Costa County also so what does that tell you?

  13. #13
    McX
    Guest

    Post imported post

    treated like a criminal until proven otherwise?! Democracy works huh? I liked the response I got once when I asked one of our local cops about OC: I believe in your right to OWN a firearm. Yeah, that realy reassured me! I guess under the cirmcumstances it was the best prepared statement I could get.

  14. #14
    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Shasta County, California, USA
    Posts
    2,231

    Post imported post

    Poblacht32 wrote:
    From what I've heard, you can get a CCW Permit from any county. I've heard that from several different people. My buddy here in Concord, got his CCW up in Redding. He used to live upin Redding years ago but went up there recently to get his permit.

    I was denied my CCW Permit by the Chief of Police here in Concord last year! His office said that they don't issue them here in Concord. He's also running for Sheriff here in Contra Costa County also so what does that tell you?
    If you are speaking of the Shasta County Sheriff's Department, their policy requires applicants to be a resident of the county. They will ask for some documentation (like a utility or telephone bill) to substantiate your residency-- which is completely bogus in view of the looser requirements in 12050- You dont have to live here... just spend a 'substantial' amount of time here in the course of employment or business here.

    My guess is that your buddy either renewed his license under the former address without update (as was possible when I was licensed) or he has established some credible documentation that suggests he spends alot of time here.
    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


    Support the 2A in California - Shop Amazon for any item and up to 15% of all purchases go back to the Calguns Foundation. Enter through either of the following links
    www.calgunsfoundation.org/amazon
    www.shop42a.com

  15. #15
    Regular Member Gundude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Sandy Eggo County
    Posts
    1,691

    Post imported post

    It's my understanding that a CCW is only valid in the county in which it is granted by His Holy Worshipfullness.
    A citizen may not be required to offer a ―good and substantial reason-- why he should be permitted to exercise his rights. The right‘s existence is all the reason he needs.

  16. #16
    Regular Member mjones's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    SoCal, , USA
    Posts
    979

    Post imported post

    Gundude wrote:
    It's my understanding that a CCW is only valid in the county in which it is granted by His Holy Worshipfullness.
    Generally Incorrect.

    A CA CCW is good statewide unless the reason for issuance was relating to work or a substantial amount of time spent in a county separate from where you reside or it is a license to carry loaded and exposed

  17. #17
    Regular Member Gundude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Sandy Eggo County
    Posts
    1,691

    Post imported post

    mjones wrote:
    Gundude wrote:
    It's my understanding that a CCW is only valid in the county in which it is granted by His Holy Worshipfullness.
    Generally Incorrect.

    A CA CCW is good statewide unless the reason for issuance was relating to work or a substantial amount of time spent in a county separate from where you reside or it is a license to carry loaded and exposed
    I stand corrected.....

    Unless otherwise restricted, such a license is valid throughout the

    state. Such a license may be valid for any amount of time not to exceed two years from the

    date of issuance, unless issued to a judge or magistrate (valid for up to three years) or

    specified custodial employees or reserve peace officers (valid for up to four years). (Penal

    Code § 12050.)
    A citizen may not be required to offer a ―good and substantial reason-- why he should be permitted to exercise his rights. The right‘s existence is all the reason he needs.

  18. #18
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Monroeville, Pa., ,
    Posts
    73

    Post imported post

    Sorry if I missed it somewhere, but, if one obtains a CCW from another County, can you legally do so loaded?

    Walt from Penna.

  19. #19
    Regular Member Gundude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Sandy Eggo County
    Posts
    1,691

    Post imported post

    Gundude wrote:
    mjones wrote:
    Gundude wrote:
    It's my understanding that a CCW is only valid in the county in which it is granted by His Holy Worshipfullness.
    Generally Incorrect.

    A CA CCW is good statewide unless the reason for issuance was relating to work or a substantial amount of time spent in a county separate from where you reside or it is a license to carry loaded and exposed
    I stand corrected.....


    Unless otherwise restricted, such a license is valid throughout the


    state. Such a license may be valid for any amount of time not to exceed two years from the


    date of issuance, unless issued to a judge or magistrate (valid for up to three years) or


    specified custodial employees or reserve peace officers (valid for up to four years). (Penal

    Code § 12050.)
    Lets assume for the sake of argument that I live 6 mos in Del Norte county and 6 mos in San Diego county. If I get an unrestricted CCW issued in Del Norte county, can the Sheriff in San Diego countyrevoke my permit if I don't break any laws. I have heard that Del Norte county is basically a "shall issue" county. I had one there in the 80's and all that was required was a class and shooting 50 rds with a score of 80 out of 100.
    A citizen may not be required to offer a ―good and substantial reason-- why he should be permitted to exercise his rights. The right‘s existence is all the reason he needs.

  20. #20
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter bigtoe416's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    1,748

    Post imported post

    iownagn-gs wrote:
    Sorry if I missed it somewhere, but, if one obtains a CCW from another County, can you legally do so loaded?

    Walt from Penna.
    Are you asking if you have a CCW from one county can you carry loaded in a different county?

    If so, yes, unless it is specifically restricted on the CCW license.

  21. #21
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Monroeville, Pa., ,
    Posts
    73

    Post imported post

    I suppose I am trying to understand if this is a way to get around the "law" of UOC in Ca. Politicians make it so dang difficult, OC loaded, CCW loaded, should be legal for all states! Basic concept of 2nd ammendment.

  22. #22
    Regular Member mjones's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    SoCal, , USA
    Posts
    979

    Post imported post

    CCW is all spelled out in PC 12050. ANY 12050 license provides exemption for CCW (12025) for Public Buildings (171b) and for GFSZ (626.9)

    There are essentially 4 possible CCWs for an everyday non-LEO citizen.

    1) Resident of Issuing Agency jurisdiction for Concealed Carry. This is good State Wide for a duration no longer then 2 years.

    2) Resident of Issuing Agency jurisdiction forExposed Carry. This can only be issued in a county of less then 200,000 population and is ONLY good in that county for a duration no longer then 2 years.

    3) Non-Resident of Issuing Agency jurisdiction for Concealed Carry. This is ONLY good in that county for a duration no longer then 90 days. Additionally your home jurisdiction will be notified.

    4) Non-Resident of Issuing Agency jurisdiction forExposed Carry. This can only be issued in a county of less tehn 200,000 population andis ONLY good in that county for a duration no longer then 90 days. Additionally your home jurisdiction will be notified.

    Anytime you move out side the county of issuance; your license expires in 90 days. You need to now apply within a new jurisdiction. You cannot be denied simply because you moved.

    Although Licenses 2 through 4 exist - They seem to be an urban legend in that noone seems to know of anyone that has ever been issued one.



    edit: a license to carry exposed is NOT an exemption to Conceal Carry 12025


  23. #23
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Monroeville, Pa., ,
    Posts
    73

    Post imported post

    Thanks for the info. To sum it up simply, in CA, the average individual has NO rights!

    CA is a beautiful state, but I'll stick to cloudy, rainy PA. where I can legally carry any way I desire.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •