Conversation with LEO in Concord last night on UOC

Livermoron · Dec 27, 2009

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Hi ODCO,

As the title says, I was at a Starbucks (not practicing UOC) in Concord last night when 6 Concord PD officers came in to get coffee (go figure).

While 2 of them were waiting for their Java I walked over and greeted them and asked what their policy on 12031(e) was? One of the officers quickly replied, "Well, It's the law." To which I politely replied, "...Of course, but what is the policy in Concord on how to handle encounters in the field with a person practicing UOC."

At this point the officer went into what sounded like a fairly rehearsed polite litany of reasons (mostly about officer safety) why he did not agree with UOC while ending with "...but it is your right, and I don't want to take away anyone's rights." There was mention of being drawn down on, and "...you'll likely be treated like a criminal until proven otherwise." :shock:

My family was in a bit of a rush, so I could not continue very long with the several minute conversation, but I never did get a real explanation of the department policy in Concord on how officers should handle encounters with UOC'ers.

Oh well :?

OPS MARINE · Dec 27, 2009

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I would say then to go about your life, make sure you understand what their stance is and OC there (in Concord) if you choose to, while exersising GREAT care to be mindful of your surroundings.

Poblacht32 · Dec 28, 2009

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I live in Concord and have communicated with the Lt. in my district quite a bit over the years. I e-mailed and asked her a couplemonths ago about UOC and whether it was legal.I got the same response from her. She said it is legal but that if confronted by the Concord Police, I would have guns drawn on me for the officers safety!

Trust me, I know the CPD very well! I've had many encounters with them over the years on my bike rides late at night after work. Some of the officers here (Not all) think they're above the law!

I would never Open Carry here out in public just because of some of the attitudes from the CPD officers. I've witnessed it 1st hand more than once. They can be a real pain in the ass sometimes over something little. I've had my rights violated by them more than once. They have a history of stopping people without probable cause here in Concord just to check your I.D..

sudden valley gunner · Dec 28, 2009

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Than you folks need separate parties recording from a distance and personal video/voice recorder. Until you break the law there is no reason to be treated like a criminal.

This attitude is not uncommon in police forces (especially city cops), the only way to stop it is to go through it and then have a threat of a lawsuit on them.

CA_Libertarian · Dec 28, 2009

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I was told exactly the same thing... almost verbatim. I think you would find their bark is bigger than their bite.

It's becoming obvious this is departmental procedure (even if not officially). I think one would be in a great position to file a federal civil suit if one were to be subjected to such abuse of power.

However, I believe most departments respond well to complaints, IA investigations, and the threat of civil liability. Most departments change their strategy once they realize that it's not worth the liability risk they create in trying to stop what we're doing. Most of them already realize we're not a threat and we're not going away.

sudden valley gunner · Dec 28, 2009

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Too bad you didn't have a recorder running, it would be good to show they premeditated any abuses they would later subject you too.

Poblacht32 · Dec 28, 2009

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I'm definitely carrying my recorder on all my bike rides for now on. I haven't been stopped since I filed a complaint against the Concord Police after Thanksgiving. Hopefully it stays that way. All they know is that I did speak to an attorney for legal advice. I put upit with it for 7 years until I finally filed a complaint against the city. I made it clear to their seargent that I was always being stopped without probable cause. I got some excuses though because of ongoing crime/break-ins in the commercial area where I ride. They always have to need an excuse.

pullnshoot25 · Dec 28, 2009

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I say call them on it.

Each time I hear an officer say anything like that, it just makes me want to sling my Saiga with no ID and some 30rd mags and walk in front of a police station...

... on my way to get some ice cream.

sudden valley gunner · Dec 29, 2009

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I'm in the same camp as you Pullnshoot.

Streetbikerr6 · Dec 29, 2009

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sudden valley gunner wrote:

I'm in the same camp as you Pullnshoot.

I have to sort of agree. I mean I do not like to hear about police bringing in their personal view into managing the law. There is no law being broken, no reason to draw upon an individual. For all they know every person could be a walking threat with a gun, are they going to pull on every person? The majority of us who OC do so for the exact same reason a LEO does, for protection. I hate when they say.. "well then just apply for a CCW". Oh right, because Kalifornia is shall issue all of a sudden. Many LEO's conceal while off-duty, what gives them the right of self defense as a normal citizen and not me?:? - then again, this tirade is coming from someone who has yet to OC. I would much rather just be able to conceal and dismiss the attention brought upon like being drawn on... though I am not afforded that option here.

Livermoron · Dec 29, 2009

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I forgot to mention that the Concord LEO that I spoke with also suggested "...then why not just get a CCW?"

OMG (as my daughter would say)!!! :cuss:

Yeah, right. I explained to him that Alameda, Contra Costa, and most other Bay Area counties will not issue a CCW permit unless you have a VERY rare "justification" for the CCW permit. You know, like, being Diane Feinstein, or the Sheriff's golfing buddy, etc.

He actually suggested I, "...go get one in another county". :shock: Isn't that a crime? You would have to establish false residency to pull that off.

:banghead:

Livermoron

Poblacht32 · Dec 30, 2009

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From what I've heard, you can get a CCW Permit from any county. I've heard that from several different people. My buddy here in Concord, got his CCW up in Redding. He used to live upin Redding years ago but went up there recently to get his permit.

I was denied my CCW Permit by the Chief of Police here in Concord last year! His office said that they don't issue them here in Concord. He's also running for Sheriff here in Contra Costa County also so what does that tell you?

McX · Dec 30, 2009

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treated like a criminal until proven otherwise?! Democracy works huh? I liked the response I got once when I asked one of our local cops about OC: I believe in your right to OWN a firearm. Yeah, that realy reassured me! I guess under the cirmcumstances it was the best prepared statement I could get.

ConditionThree · Dec 30, 2009

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Poblacht32 wrote:

From what I've heard, you can get a CCW Permit from any county. I've heard that from several different people. My buddy here in Concord, got his CCW up in Redding. He used to live upin Redding years ago but went up there recently to get his permit.

I was denied my CCW Permit by the Chief of Police here in Concord last year! His office said that they don't issue them here in Concord. He's also running for Sheriff here in Contra Costa County also so what does that tell you?

If you are speaking of the Shasta County Sheriff's Department, their policy requires applicants to be a resident of the county. They will ask for some documentation (like a utility or telephone bill) to substantiate your residency-- which is completely bogus in view of the looser requirements in 12050- You dont have to live here... just spend a 'substantial' amount of time here in the course of employment or business here.

My guess is that your buddy either renewed his license under the former address without update (as was possible when I was licensed) or he has established some credible documentation that suggests he spends alot of time here.

Gundude · Dec 30, 2009

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It's my understanding that a CCW is only valid in the county in which it is granted by His Holy Worshipfullness.

mjones · Dec 30, 2009

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Gundude wrote:

It's my understanding that a CCW is only valid in the county in which it is granted by His Holy Worshipfullness.

Generally Incorrect.

A CA CCW is good statewide unless the reason for issuance was relating to work or a substantial amount of time spent in a county separate from where you reside or it is a license to carry loaded and exposed

Gundude · Dec 30, 2009

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mjones wrote:

Gundude wrote:

It's my understanding that a CCW is only valid in the county in which it is granted by His Holy Worshipfullness.

Click to expand...

Generally Incorrect.

A CA CCW is good statewide unless the reason for issuance was relating to work or a substantial amount of time spent in a county separate from where you reside or it is a license to carry loaded and exposed

I stand corrected.....

[align=left]Unless otherwise restricted, such a license is valid throughout the[/align]
[align=left]state. Such a license may be valid for any amount of time not to exceed two years from the[/align]
[align=left]date of issuance, unless issued to a judge or magistrate (valid for up to three years) or[/align]
[align=left]specified custodial employees or reserve peace officers (valid for up to four years). (Penal[/align]
Code § 12050.)

iownagn-gs · Jan 1, 2010

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Sorry if I missed it somewhere, but, if one obtains a CCW from another County, can you legally do so loaded?

Walt from Penna.

Gundude · Jan 1, 2010

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Gundude wrote:

mjones wrote:

Gundude wrote:

It's my understanding that a CCW is only valid in the county in which it is granted by His Holy Worshipfullness.

Click to expand...

Generally Incorrect.

A CA CCW is good statewide unless the reason for issuance was relating to work or a substantial amount of time spent in a county separate from where you reside or it is a license to carry loaded and exposed

Click to expand...

I stand corrected.....

[align=left]Unless otherwise restricted, such a license is valid throughout the[/align]

[align=left]state. Such a license may be valid for any amount of time not to exceed two years from the[/align]

[align=left]date of issuance, unless issued to a judge or magistrate (valid for up to three years) or[/align]

[align=left]specified custodial employees or reserve peace officers (valid for up to four years). (Penal[/align]
Code § 12050.)

Lets assume for the sake of argument that I live 6 mos in Del Norte county and 6 mos in San Diego county. If I get an unrestricted CCW issued in Del Norte county, can the Sheriff in San Diego countyrevoke my permit if I don't break any laws. I have heard that Del Norte county is basically a "shall issue" county. I had one there in the 80's and all that was required was a class and shooting 50 rds with a score of 80 out of 100.

bigtoe416 · Jan 1, 2010

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iownagn-gs wrote:

Sorry if I missed it somewhere, but, if one obtains a CCW from another County, can you legally do so loaded?

Walt from Penna.

Are you asking if you have a CCW from one county can you carry loaded in a different county?

If so, yes, unless it is specifically restricted on the CCW license.

Conversation with LEO in Concord last night on UOC

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