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Thread: Lawrence

  1. #1
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    I am really wanting to OC and just simply can't stand the idea of CC after some ridiculous experiences out of state. I live outside of Topeka and Lawrence and travel to both regularly. I feel the need to OC more in Topeka than the need to OC in patchouli-ville Lawrence except for when I'm in N.Lawrence at my favorite restaraunt.
    I have now called the Lawrence PD and seriously was tossed around to 3 different people trying to get an answer as to what the restrictions are in Lawrence......the call ended with a very official "I don't know" with an expected "why do you want to OC".....they even laughed at not knowing or being able to provide an answer. Does anyone know who knows or who I should call? The problem with legaleese code and .govspeak is that, I believe, it leaves too much room for misinterpretation or what appears to be legal soon dies the death of a thousand qualifications and sub-qualifications.
    Just got off the phone with the desk officer and they sent me to another voice mail. That is two voice mails this morning.

  2. #2
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    binder,

    Calling the law enforcement about open carry rights and them not knowing the law is an all to common problem in Kansas. Lawrence is open carry and below I have copied Lawrence weapons law for you. About the only thing you have to worry about is OC close to an establishment that serves alcohol.

    I would advise you to print a copy of the law and carry it with you were ever you OC. Supposedly there is an active OC group in Lawrence I just don't know who they are and how to contact them.

    You can find the city codes for Lawrenceat http://www.ci.lawrence.ks.us/city_code/under Chapter 14 Public Offenses

    Thank you for having the courage to OC. It takes fortitude to exercise this right!


    14-406 CARRYING CONCEALED WEAPONS.

    (A) It shall be unlawful for an individual to carry concealed on his or her person,

    or possess with intent to use the same unlawfully against another, a dagger,

    dirk, billy, blackjack, slungshot, dangerous knife, straight-edged razor,

    stiletto or any other dangerous or deadly weapon or instrument of like

    character, except that an ordinary pocket knife with no blade more than four

    inches in length shall not be construed to be a dangerous knife, or a

    dangerous or deadly weapon or instrument. (Ord. 8021)

    (B) It shall be unlawful for an individual to carry any pistol, revolver or other

    firearm concealed on his or her person except when he or she is on the

    person's land or in the person's abode or fixed place of business; (Ord.

    8021)

    (C) Exceptions: (Ord. 8021)

    (1) No part of this Section prohibiting the carrying of a concealed

    weapon shall apply to:

    (a) Law enforcement officers, or any person summoned by

    any such officers to assist in making arrests or

    preserving the peace while actually engaged in assisting

    such officer.

    (b) Wardens, superintendents, directors, security personnel

    and keepers of prisons, penitentiaries, jails and other

    institutions for the detention of persons accused or

    convicted of crime, while acting within the scope of their

    authority.

    (c) Members of the armed services or reserve forces of the

    United States or the Kansas National Guard while in the

    performance of their official duty.

    (2) No part of this Section dealing with carrying a concealed revolver,

    pistol or firearm shall apply to:

    (a) Watchmen, while actually engaged in the performance of

    the duties of their employment.

    (b) Private detectives licensed by the state to carry the

    firearm involved, while actually engaged in the duties of

    their employment;

    (c) Detectives or special agents regularly employed by

    railroad companies or other corporations to perform fulltime

    security or investigative service, while actually

    engaged in the duties of their employment.

    CODE OF THE CITY OF LAWRENCE, KANSAS

    14-16

    (d) The state fire marshal, the state fire marshal's deputies

    or any member of a fire department authorized to carry a

    firearm pursuant to K.S.A. 31-157 and amendments

    thereto, while engaged in an investigation in which such

    fire marshal, deputy or member is authorized to carry a

    firearm pursuant to K.S.A. 31-157 and amendments

    thereto.

    (e) Special deputy sheriffs described in K.S.A. 19-827, and

    amendments thereto, who have satisfactorily completed

    the basic course of instruction required for permanent

    appointment as a part-time law enforcement officer

    under K.S.A. 74-5607a and amendments thereto.

    (f) Any person licensed to carry a concealed firearm under

    the Kansas Personal and Family Protection Act, and

    amendments thereto, at such times and in such places

    as the person would be allowed to lawfully carry a

    concealed firearm under that act.

    (D) Any person convicted of a violation of this section shall be punished by a

    fine not to exceed $2500, or a jail term not to exceed one year, or both such

    fine and jail term. (Ord. 8021)

    (Code 1979, 14-408; Ord. 5516, Ord. 8021)

    14-407 DISCHARGING FIREARMS.

    No person shall discharge or fire off any firearms of any kind within this City. The

    provisions of this Section shall not apply however, to the discharge of firearms by

    officers of the law, when necessary in the discharge of their official duties, to the

    discharge of firearms in any licensed shooting gallery in this City, to any officer or

    enlisted man of the Kansas National Guard while in the discharge of his or her duty,

    or to any person using such firearm to lawfully defend his or her person, property or

    dwelling. (Code 1979, 14-409; Ord. 5516, Ord. 8021)

    14-408 CARRYING WEAPONS IN OR NEAR ANY BAR.

    (A) Definitions

    (1) ”Alcoholic Liquor” means alcohol, spirits, wine, beer and every liquid or solid,

    patented or not, containing alcohol, spirits, wine, or beer, and capable of

    being consumed as a beverage by a human being, but shall not include any

    cereal malt beverage.

    (2) “Cereal Malt Beverage” means any fermented but undistilled liquor brewed

    or made from malt or from a mixture of malt or malt substitute, but does not

    include any such liquor that is more than 3.2 percent alcohol by weight.

    (3) “Close proximity” means property any part of which is within 200 feet, except

    that if any portion of the contiguous area of a park, unimproved lot, parking

    garage or parking lot is within 200 feet then the entire contiguous area of the

    parking lot or parking garage is within close proximity.

    (4) “Dangerous knife” means every knife or straight razor except for:

    (a) An ordinary folding pocket knife with a blade no longer than 4

    CODE OF THE CITY OF LAWRENCE, KANSAS

    14-17

    inches in length.

    (b) Knives provided by the drinking establishment for use by patrons for

    the purpose of dining.

    (c) Knives possessed by the employees and owners of the drinking

    establishment, or those contracted by such owners or employees to

    perform work within the drinking establishment, when such knives

    are used within the drinking establishment as tools for food

    preparation, maintenance, or some other business purpose.

    (d) Knives and straight razors possessed by individuals who may

    lawfully carry such items concealed on their person pursuant to

    K.S.A. 21-4201 and amendments thereto.

    (5) “Drinking establishment” means premises where alcoholic liquor is sold by

    the drink and every premises licensed for that purpose.

    (6) “Firearm” means an object having the design or capacity to propel a

    projectile by force of an explosion, gas, or other combustion.

    (7) “Possession” means exercising actual or constructive dominion or control

    over an object.

    (8) “Publicly accessible property” means any public or private street, alley,

    sidewalk, unimproved lot, park, walkway, trail, parking garage, parking lot or

    other property that is accessible to or actually used by members of the

    general public.

    (9) “Within a drinking establishment” means any area on the premises of a

    drinking establishment where alcoholic liquor may be lawfully consumed.

    (B) It shall be unlawful for any person to possess a firearm within a drinking

    establishment or on publicly accessible property in close proximity to the

    premises of any drinking establishment.

    (C) It shall be unlawful for any person to possess a dangerous knife within a

    drinking establishment.

    (D) The provisions of this section concerning the possession of firearms shall

    not apply to:

    (1) Business owners and their employees while they are on the

    premises of their fixed place of business.

    (2) Law enforcement officers or others entitled to carry concealed

    firearms in the locations that they are lawfully authorized to carry such

    firearms.

    (3) Members of the United States Armed Forces or Kansas National

    Guard during or in conjunction with the actual performance of their official

    duties.

    (4) An unloaded firearm within a vehicle so long as the firearm is within

    a container that completely encloses the firearm.

    (5) An unloaded firearm possessed by an individual who does not

    CODE OF THE CITY OF LAWRENCE, KANSAS

    14-18

    contemporaneously possess any ammunition for the firearm contained in

    any ammunition clip, magazine, speed loader, drum or other device that

    allows for the rapid loading of the firearm provided that such firearm is not

    possessed within a drinking establishment.

    (6) Individuals whose residence is within close proximity to the area

    where the firearm is possessed if such firearm is not possessed within a

    drinking establishment.

    (7) Firearms that may not be lawfully possessed. The possession of

    such firearms may be prosecuted under the specific laws rendering their

    possession illegal.

    (8) Firearms that only incidentally pass through an area regulated by

    this section. A firearm incidentally passes through a regulated area if the

    possessor does not voluntarily interrupt his or her continuous travel through

    the regulated area. Pausing on the roadway due to traffic control devices or

    traffic conditions shall not be considered voluntary interruption of travel.

    (9) Firearms possessed while on the premises of a lawfully operating

    firing range or target range with a fixed place of business. (Ord. 7984)

    (E) This section shall be construed to limit the right to possess weapons in the

    areas regulated, and nothing in the section shall be interpreted to grant an

    individual the right to possess a weapon in an area or manner that would be

    unlawful under any other applicable law.

    (F) Any person who is convicted of a violation of this section shall be punished

    as follows: (Ord. 8082)_

    (1) On a first offense the person shall be fined in an amount not less

    than $500 or more than $2500, and shall be sentenced to a jail term

    of at least 30 days but not more than one year. _

    (2) On a second offense the person shall be fined in an amount not

    less that $1000 or more than $2500 and shall be sentenced to a jail

    term of at least 90 days but no more than one year._

    (3) On a third or subsequent offense the person shall be fined $2500

    and shall be sentenced to a jail term of at least 180 days but no

    more than one year.




  3. #3
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    (8) Firearms that only incidentally pass through an area regulated by

    this section. A firearm incidentally passes through a regulated area if the

    possessor does not voluntarily interrupt his or her continuous travel through

    the regulated area. Pausing on the roadway due to traffic control devices or

    traffic conditions shall not be considered voluntary interruption of travel.




    Walking or driving within 200 feet of a bar while OCingis perfectly legal, provided you do not voluntarily stop within that "close proximity". Does that sound like the correct translation of this subsection?

  4. #4
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    I know this is resurrecting an old thread, but I recently wondered the same thing and thought my findings could be of use to people in the area. Here is my thread of emails with the Scott Miller, Staff Attorney, Police, Fire and Medical in Lawrence.


    Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 4:02 PM
    To: Scott Miller
    Subject: Clarification of Open Carry Laws


    To whom it may concern,

    I am attempting to do some research regarding the open carry laws in Kansas and various municipalities. Given my understanding of the way the laws are written, open carry is permitted in Kansas unless specifically prohibited by local ordinances. I am inquiring as to the interpretation of these laws in Lawrence. I am not asking about vehicle carry or concealed carry, but actual on person open carry of an exposed firearm. I cannot seem to find any prohibition against this in the Douglas county code nor in the city of Lawrence besides prohibiting firearms not in transit within 200 ft of a bar. My two questions are as follows: What is the definition of open carry, as in what constitutes a firearm that is in the state of being "openly carried?" Second, is my interpretation of the city and county codes correct in that open carry is allowed in public and private areas that are not specifically prohibited from possession of firearms?

    Thank you for clarifying this matter.

    -----Original Message-----
    Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 9:25 PM
    To: Scott Miller
    Subject: Re: Clarification of Open Carry Laws

    On 2/16/2010 4:44 PM, Scott Miller wrote:

    The primary Kansas statute that makes certain practices with weapons illegal is K.S.A. 21-4201. One of the things made illegal by that statute is carrying a weapon concealed on one's person except in places like the person's residence or place of business. Many statuses may either authorize otherwise unauthorized weapons possession or make it illegal to carry a weapon in a manner that would otherwise be lawful.
    For example, police officers may carry concealed firearms, while convicted felons may not be able to possess any firearm. Otherwise lawful firearm owners may not be able to legally carry them into a courthouse.

    The Kansas statutes are generally silent on any non-concealed possession. Many cities and perhaps some counties pass ordinances to make public non-concealed carry illegal. Sometimes Federal laws also have some impact, like the Gun Free School Zones Act of 1996 for example. But in the absence of any of those special provisions, there is no law that makes open carry illegal. The presumption in our legal
    system is that an act is legal unless it is prohibited by law.

    Open carry in this sense is carrying a weapon on one's person in a manner where the weapon is not concealed. It refers to every type of carry except for concealed carry. Lawrence does not have an ordinance making it illegal to carry a firearm openly, but as you pointed out it does have one that applies to firearms carried within close proximity of a drinking establishment.

    With that being said, someone marching down Jayhawk Blvd. or many other private places with a rifle or a pistol in his or her hand is something that would draw notice from both members of the public and the police, given the number of campus, school and other mass shootings that our nation has experienced in the past few years.

    In private areas, carrying a firearm into or onto someone else's property if it is posted against firearms might result in a criminal trespass complaint. Otherwise, unless the area is specifically legally protected then I do not believe carrying into those areas would be illegal.

    I have not recently done the research but know of no Douglas County
    resolution that would apply to the open carry of firearms. For more
    specific information about County regulation you would need to talk to them.

    Hope this helps.


    Scott J. Miller, Staff Attorney -- smiller@ci.lawrence.ks.us
    Legal Services Department | City of Lawrence, KS
    P.O Box 708, 6 E. 6th St., Lawrence, KS 66044
    office (785) 832-3470 | fax (785) 832-3405

    -----Original Message-----

    Thank you for your response. It is much appreciated. I only have one
    uncertainty about your reply. Pertaining to "open carry," is an outside
    of the waistband uncovered holster considered being openly carried? From
    my research, most states recognize holstered carry as being "open" carry
    as long as it does not unreasonably obscure the form of the firearm from recognition, but a few municipalities in other states seem to have provisions that the firearm must be "in-hand."

    Thank you again for taking the time to clarify this.


    -----Original Message-----


    I do not know of any cases that have been decided regarding whether the
    holstered hip carry of firearms equals concealment under Kansas law so I
    cannot give you any authoritative answer to your question. I can tell
    you that I have always believed that open, holstered carry of a firearm
    is not concealed carry. I suppose some holsters might be too concealed
    if they are essentially entirely enclosed, but I have never seen a case
    where they were treated as such. If you read some of the older Kansas
    concealed carry cases the rationale behind the illegalization of
    concealed weapons is that the law gives people who have contact with the
    weapon bearer notice that the person is armed so they can act
    accordingly. I think that rationale would support interpreting
    holstered carry as open carry.


    Scott J. Miller, Staff Attorney -- smiller@ci.lawrence.ks.us
    Legal Services Department | City of Lawrence, KS
    P.O Box 708, 6 E. 6th St., Lawrence, KS 66044
    office (785) 832-3470 | fax (785) 832-3405
    Last edited by eventer289; 08-20-2010 at 12:42 AM.

  5. #5
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    Good job eventer. Thanks for posting the emails.

  6. #6
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    Blade Carry

    I realize this is for guns but I have a few questions I can't find the answers to. I live in Lawrence kansas. Can i open carry a six inch fixed blade? And i'll be 21 in june but can I open carry a pistol? When I'm 21 I plan on getting my CCW. Currently I carry a 3.75 inch SOG Trident but pocket knives can fail. Opinions? Answers? Thanis for the help!

  7. #7
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    open carry legal at 18 and you can't conceal a knife that is over four inches

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