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Thread: St. Louis police officer accidentally kills burglary victim

  1. #1
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    this is very unfortunate...and i'm sure the anti-gun fanatics will see this as more ammunition for their cause...

    i'm not i like what the officer in the video had to say about the situation...he almost makes it sound as if he's saying you shouldn't defend what's yours.

    opinions?

    http://www.ksdk.com/news/local/story...192605&catid=3

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    KSDK -- A St. Louis Metropolitan police officer accidentally shot and killed an apartment resident while responding to a burglary in North City.
    
    The shooting occurred at an apartment building in the 1500 block of Salisbury around 7:35 p.m. Officers were first called to the scene in response to a burglary in progress. While police were on their way, the burglar fled the apartment; however, the apartment tenant thought the burglar was still inside.
    
    Just after police arrived on the scene, the apartment tenant fired a shot, believing he had the burglar caught.
    
    Police noticed the muzzle flash and opened fire themselves, fearing for their safety. Police bullets struck the tenant, who was rushed to a nearby hospital where he later died.
    
    Investigators have no leads on the identity or whereabouts of the actual burglar at the moment.
    
    KSDK

  2. #2
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    It's to bad it ended the way it did. Never shoot unless you have a target. It's a sad way to learn a basic firearms lesson.

  3. #3
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    it sounds like they are trying to change their story now of what happened...

    http://www.kmov.com/news/just-posted...-80240797.html

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    Posted on December 28, 2009 at 8:39 PM
     													 																Updated 																	today at 8:26 AM 															
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     																																											 										1500 Salisbury, St. louis 																				  																				 				 		 		 		 		 		 		 		 		 		 								 						Map data ©2009  Google - Terms of Use 				 							38.660701 				-90.200543 					 		 			// 		 	 										View larger map
     									 																																								 																																																							
    (KMOV) -- A St. Louis man is dead after being shot by police in what investigators are calling a case of mistaken identity.  It happened around 7:30 p.m. on Monday in the 1500 block of Salisbury in north St. Louis.  Police were called to the scene to respond to reports of a shootout.   Police believe the man thought the officers were burglars and fired shots at them.  The officers returned fire, shooting and killing the man.  Police tell News 4 that the victim's apartment was ransacked and that it looked like the burglar knew what he was looking for.   Neighbors say the apartment had a reputation as a drug house. Investigators did recover drugs at the crime scene.  The two officers are on administrative leave, which is standard procedure for this type of incident.

  4. #4
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    anyone else think this is quickly turning into a really bad cover up for metro pd? the story has changed oh so quickly ever since it was discovered the wrong person was killed....thoughts??

    http://www.fox2now.com/news/ktvi-sal...,2143445.story

    Code:
    St. Louis, MO ( KTVI - FOX2Now.com ) - St. Louis Police say two officers who shot the victim of a robbery in the Northern part of the city last night feared for their lives when the man emerged with a gun and fired it into the air.
    
    Forty year old Antonio Hogans was killed about 7:30 Monday night.
    
    Police were responding to two 911 calls from the area on Salisbury Street. The first said shots were being fired, and the second reported some kind of altercation. When cops arrived, they knocked on the door and got no answer according to police. That's when they say they saw a muzzle flash, heard a shot, then saw Hogans running toward them with a gun.
    
    "They absolutely feared for their safety", police spokesperson Erica Van Ross says. "Someone was with a gun five to ten steps away from them. They had to make a split second decision. "
    
    The decision was to open fire.
    
    Police revealed Tuesday that Hogans apartment had been ransacked by someone looking for something specific. They went on to say crack cocaine, packaged for sale was discovered in the victims pocket.
    
    Hogans sister disputes any allusion to drug involvement.
    
    "He didn't deal in no drugs", Myra Jane Hogans says. "There wasn't no drugs involved the way they always want to quote put it on black folks, drugs. Everybody don't smoke drugs."
    
    She says her brother was a rap musician who had little time for anything but music and family.
    
    Missouri court records show only traffic altercations on his criminal record.
    
    At least one witness, along with family members, claim Hogans scuffle was with an undercover police officer. Police department officials vehemently deny the allegation.
    
    As for the shooting itself, police express sympathy, but also believe it could have been avoided.
    
    "It's tragic. It certainly is tragic", police Captain Mike Sack said at the scene. "He probably wasn't aware the officers were called and sent. If he would have waited inside the residence until the officers arrived, there would have been opportunity for everyone to identify themselves. Instead, he armed himself and came out of the building. He likely wanted to make sure the suspect was gone and that he was safe. But in doing that, he acted in a way to frighten the officers."
    and then there's this article running which sounds a bit different...

    http://www.ksdk.com/news/local/story...192605&catid=3

    Code:
    KSDK -- Two St. Louis police officers are on administrative leave following the fatal shooting of an apartment tenant during a burglary call.
    
    Police said they got a 911 call at 7:27 p.m. Monday for shots fired inside a building in the 1500 block of Salisbury. Callers said they could hear arguing coming from an apartment and that the door appeared to have been kicked in.
    
    Two officers approached and knocked on the door, which was closed despite reports it had been kicked in. They said they announced themselves as police officers and no one answered. One said he peered around a corner and when he did, saw a muzzle flash and a gunshot.
    
    The two officers drew their guns and a second later said a man ran from the gangway. The officers opened fire, hitting the man six times in his neck, side and back. He was identified as 40-year-old Antonio Hogans. 
    Hogans was taken to a nearby hospital and pronounced dead. Police said they recovered a loaded gun from the scene and that it was stolen.
    
    Officers entered the residence through the basement. Inside they reported finding evidence that a gun had been fired at least once inside the apartment before they had arrived.
    
    Specific areas of the apartment appeared to have been ransacked. Drawers and shoeboxes had been searched by someone.
    
    Police said they found crack cocaine in Hogans' pants pocket. Investigators believe the person who kicked in Hogan's door may have been looking for drugs or drug money.
    
    Officers also noticed that a chair was propped up against the apartment door to keep it from opening. Detectives believe Hogans put the chair there after the other person inside the apartment ran away.
    
    Hogans apparently got out of the apartment by using another door and went out through the basement and into the gangway.
    
    Investigators said it's not clear why Hogans was leaving. They speculate he may have been trying to run after the intruder or get help, or simply run away. Police think Hogans may not have known neighbors had call 911 to get him help.
    
    Hogans' sister tells NewsChannel 5 that she believes the officers acted inappropriately by opening fire.
    
    "It hurts me to talk about it. To know that my brother is gone because of a gunshot. A gunshot. They could have tripped him, flipped him, or anything other than to shoot him," Myra Hogans said.
    
    As is standard procedure in any officer involved shooting, the two officers, who are white males, ages 27 and 33, have been placed on administrative leave. The officers have both been commissioned officers since July 2008.
    
    "It's very easy to say, 'they should of asked him this or they should have done this,' but we just want people to put themselves in the shoes of our officers and understand they had seconds to make the decision; not minutes, not hours, not days," said Erica Van Ross with the St. Louis Police Department.
    
    KSDK

  5. #5
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    yelohamr wrote:
    It's to bad it ended the way it did. Never shoot unless you have a target. It's a sad way to learn a basic firearms lesson.
    Upon further review, I'm changing my story too. Except for the first sentence.

    When a story comes out, the media hardly ever has all, if any of the facts correct. They want to be the first to break the story and if it's not totally correct, so what, that news outlet was the first one with the story.

    When there is a police involved shooting, the policearen't going to say anything until the initial investigation is done. When the media reports that, its OMG it's a cover-up because that's not what the media said at the beginning.

    Until the police make a statement, the media will interview anyone that knew the dead guy, who was always a nice guy, never in trouble and was a rap musician and we all know that rap musicians are angels.

    If in fact, the "victim" did shoot at the police and missed, it was probablybecause he used the "gangster grip" while shooting.

    If there is a cover-up, it will be by the media, who got the story wrong in the first place, but won't admit it.

    I suggest that all of the anti-LEOs wait until the investigation is complete.



  6. #6
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    i'm in no way an anti-leo type person.

    stl metro's pd doesn't exactly have the highest reputation around either on all accounts.

    as a matter of fact i worked in the LE division for a while myself. I just merely find it interesting how the wrong person got killed but the police are deciding to release the details of what the individual had on their persons....in most cases accidental shootings do they rarely release or find it prudent information to release what the person had on themselves etc if they were the victim.

  7. #7
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    So, where was the threat of grave bodily injury or death?

    Running--even towards you--with a gun only covers Opportunity and Ability. It still omits Jeopardy/Intent. Unless Hogan pointed the gun at the cops, or said something to indicate a harmful intent, I cannot see the Jeopardy/Intent.

    Between this incident and the one in Arizona where the cops shot the homeowner, I think police are omitting from their calculations that there are armed good guys--the mere presence of a gun doesn't mean "open fire."
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  8. #8
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    The resident was in the wrong, once police arrived, he should have holstered his firearm.The cops don't have to take a bullet before they try to assess if the good guy fired the shot or he bad guy fired the shot.. Maybe the city just lost another productive crack dealer. and yes the cops do have the right to investigate the dwelling. Planted evidence or not we will never know, bottom line is when cops are responding to a call, you better put your firearm away. this is a lesson hard learned that the guy will never be able to put into practice another day. But anyonearmed for their own defense should knowbetter than to fire in the presenceof responding offiers, and should knowproper firearms handling way beyond buying a gun and loading it with ammo..

  9. #9
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    Carnivore wrote:
    The resident was in the wrong, once police arrived, he should have holstered his firearm.The cops don't have to take a bullet before they try to assess if the good guy fired the shot or he bad guy fired the shot.. Maybe the city just lost another productive crack dealer. and yes the cops do have the right to investigate the dwelling. Planted evidence or not we will never know, bottom line is when cops are responding to a call, you better put your firearm away. this is a lesson hard learned that the guy will never be able to put into practice another day. But anyonearmed for their own defense should knowbetter than to fire in the presenceof responding offiers, and should knowproper firearms handling way beyond buying a gun and loading it with ammo..
    the article itself said the resident may have not known if officers were responding.
    that'd be kinda hard to know unless you were the one who called em eh?

    i'm sorry but this just seemed like an opportunity for you to spout off and get on a soap box.

  10. #10
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    Don't apologize for attacking me, I'm a big boy, and I can respect your opinion, just like you should be able to respect mine, spouting/soapbox,etc.etc. doesn't bother me, I do know that 99% of calls to police concerning a robbery in progress would most likely come from within the dwelling and I personally would be aware when the police arrived and Holster my firearm, and any half asses trained weapons carrier in the general public should be at least that intelligent and trained.. the fella obviously was under the influence of something/under theeffects of an adrenalin rush/or wasn't trained enough to make an intelligent decision, or what should be practically automaticand reholster his firearm. The cops did their job and returned fire to what they could only assess as a BG.

  11. #11
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    this unfortunately as you said is one of those instances where we'll never know what really happened.

    if he actually shot at officers, if he knew they [police] were coming, how lit it was and who saw what etc etc etc and vice versa.

  12. #12
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    Yep lots of thigns can happen to a crime scene, when the first and only people allowed inside are cops, but the stolen firearm and running from the cops after the officersgot shot at doesn't look like a good defense for the tennant, or his family.seems as though running from a possible drug charge cost him his life.

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