• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

LTE: "I don’t want my kids to have to see that."

Repeater

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2007
Messages
2,498
Location
Richmond, Virginia, USA
imported post

This letter-to-the-editor appears in the current edition of the Chesterfield Observer.

This mother's attitude is disturbing. I'm reproducing her letter in its entirety.

Because she is so extremely bothered by what she, and her children, might see from the consequences of deer hunting, I'm wondering if she would be similarly offended by the sight of a handgun carried by a person within her proximity at a park, shopping mall, or a restaurant. Note that she repeatedly refers to bows as weapons. I've highlighted that aspect in her letter.

My question is:

Does a person's anti-hunting mentality extend to anti open-carry mentality also?

Here is her letter:

Killing deer in neighborhoods is dangerous

Dear Editor,

Your Nov. 25 article describing Chesterfield’s Board of Supervisors’ decision regarding a change in the bow hunting ordinance poorly addressed the concerns of those of us who support that change. Perhaps you might have also wanted to publish a photo of a hunter in a tree stand hovering over my neighbors’ yard where their children and dog normally play. Another neighbor has arranged for that hunter to be there despite the strong objections of immediate neighbors and despite the objections of the homeowners’ association. Bow hunting in this setting, only a few feet from another’s home, is inappropriate and unsafe.

In many areas of the state, from neighboring Henrico and Hanover counties, to numerous other areas far less populated than ours (like Tazewell, Pulaski and Rocky Mount, just as examples), local laws limit bow hunting near homes, acknowledging that it presents an unacceptable risk. Chesterfield should do likewise.

The state gives clear leeway to the counties to regulate bow hunting in areas “so heavily populated as to make such conduct dangerous to the inhabitants.” (Code of Virginia, § 15.2-1209/1210). Certainly, a neighborhood is one such place.

Let me say that I absolutely support exempting target practice and archery from the proposed ordinance change. There is a world of difference between shooting a practice arrow at a fixed target and a live arrow at a moving animal.

Over and over, those opposed to the ordinance change who spoke at the [public] hearing stated that bow hunting is safe, but everyone has to admit that there are additional variables involved when you take that bow hunting into a densely populated neighborhood. To trot out statistics from the last 30 years of bow hunting in rural areas and the forests of Virginia to prove that hunting on a half-acre lot (or less) in a neighborhood full of unpredictable children and pets is safe is ludicrous. In fact, even the hunter who has been solicited to kill deer in my neighbor’s yard detailed in a slideshow the numerous steps he undertook to ensure safety, acknowledging that such steps are necessary. Can we assume that every backyard hunter will be as careful in exhaustively researching all safety angles and potential dangers? Today’s crossbows and compound bows are incredibly high-powered and deadly, propelling arrows at a high rate of speed for long distances. Despite how dedicated and careful one may be, hunting errors occur. Allowing those kinds of weapons in such close proximity to so many people is an accident waiting to happen.

In addition to the weapons themselves, an injured deer running through a heavily populated neighborhood is also a hazard. After a fatal arrow shot, deer often run 100 yards or more before falling. In most neighborhoods, that means the deer ends up in someone’s yard other than the hunter. I don’t want to see a suffering or dying deer writhing in my yard. I don’t want my kids to have to see that. In a neighborhood, I think it’s reasonable to expect that we shouldn’t have to. Remember that way over 90 percent of Americans don’t hunt, and part of the reason is that we have absolutely no desire to ever witness that – and especially not when looking out our kitchen window.

Also heard repeatedly at the hearing were concerns about deer population growth and the problems associated with that increase. If Chesterfield needs to address those concerns at some point in the future, then that is a different argument altogether. Certainly a neighbor shooting a deer here and there in his yard is not going to solve any perceived deer overpopulation problem.

Perhaps those of us in favor of this ordinance change did not have the numbers of those who oppose the change turn out for the hearing. After all, we are just concerned citizens without a lobbying organization at our disposal. But that doesn’t mean that this issue affects only one neighborhood. Common sense dictates that lethal hunting weapons have no business in close quarters with occupied homes – the risks are not worth it. It’s unthinkable that someone would place the importance of their ornamental plants above the safety of a child.

Jennifer Martin Lemler

Midlothian
 

Citizen

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
18,269
Location
Fairfax Co., VA
imported post

She raises some good points; but her basic premise is avague "unacceptable risk."

I wonder if she is one of those people who consider any risk to be unacceptable. She certainly seems squeamish about writhing deer. I wonder if she is unwilling to have her kids learn how cattle are killed and butchered, too.

Regarding OC, I don't know. She might have some experience with hunting. She seems to know more about hunting bows and shooting angles and hunting safety than your average urban soccer mom. Maybe her dad hunted when she was growing up.
 

Repeater

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2007
Messages
2,498
Location
Richmond, Virginia, USA
imported post

Citizen wrote:
She raises some good points; but her basic premise is avague "unacceptable risk."

I wonder if she is one of those people who consider any risk to be unacceptable. She certainly seems squeamish about writhing deer. I wonder if she is unwilling to have her kids learn how cattle are killed and butchered, too.

Regarding OC, I don't know. She might have some experience with hunting. She seems to know more about hunting bows and shooting angles and hunting safety than your average urban soccer mom. Maybe her dad hunted when she was growing up.
I thought about that, too. But I wonder where she was raised. Is she a native Virginian or a transplant?

I'm seeing more people in Chesterfield County with cosmopolitan attitudes that lead to certain people wanting to ban flagpoles and BB guns and now deer hunting.

This increasing level of intolerance for culture and tradition is cause for concern.
 

nova

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2007
Messages
3,149
Location
US
imported post

If she values the lives of her children then she better not drive them anywhere, there's a much higher risk of getting in a fatal car accident than being accidentally shot by a hunter.
 

thnycav

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 28, 2007
Messages
305
Location
Windsor VA, ,
imported post

I do not think she is anti hunting as much as where they are hunting. When you do get too close to houses and populated areas it can get very dangerous.If done inwilderness area that is different. If you know there is hunting in the woods you take your chances going in there. You should feel safe in your backyard that you and your family will not get hit by a stray round. A bullet from a weapon may have an effective range but it can go a lot farther than that. Just like shooting in the air the bullet will come to earth somewhere.

It is not the bullet with your name on it you have to worry about it is the one that is marked to whom it may concern.
 

wylde007

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2009
Messages
3,035
Location
Va Beach, Occupied VA
imported post

thnycav wrote:
It is not the bullet with your name on it you have to worry about it is the one that is marked to whom it may concern.
I've got to say, that's one of the best damn quotes I've read in a while.
 

DocV

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2008
Messages
204
Location
Virginia Beach, ,
imported post

I hunt. I have no problem with hunting. I do have problems with hunters (or at least that's what they call themselves). I see where this lady is coming from. I've had people trespass on my property to hunt and get to a hunting area. I've had people run dogs through. I've dug rounds out of siding( addressed to "Whom It May Concern":)) and I've brought the kids and critters inside because the gunfire sounded a tad too close. So, yeah, I do see her point.



DocV
 

peter nap

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
Messages
13,551
Location
Valhalla
imported post

DocV wrote:
I hunt. I have no problem with hunting. I do have problems with hunters (or at least that's what they call themselves). I see where this lady is coming from. I've had people trespass on my property to hunt and get to a hunting area. I've had people run dogs through. I've dug rounds out of siding( addressed to "Whom It May Concern":)) and I've brought the kids and critters inside because the gunfire sounded a tad too close. So, yeah, I do see her point.



DocV
Say it again brother!!!!!:lol:
 

MSC 45ACP

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2009
Messages
2,840
Location
Newport News, Virginia, USA
imported post

Those same knuckleheads that call themselves "hunters" also consider themselves "shooters" at the range...

Y'all know the type: FULL SIZE silhouette target at 3 yards and still spray rounds all over the place, shooting a Hand Cannon (44 mag or 50 AE) on a crowded indoor range. Not being muzzle conscious (I usually tell them where I'm going to stick their weapon if they don't quit pointing it at other people). I really don't suffer idiocy lightly. I do my best to see them removed from the range before they hurt someone else. let them test Darwin in private where they can't take anyone else out of the gene pool with them.
 

peter nap

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
Messages
13,551
Location
Valhalla
imported post

MSC 45ACP wrote:
Those same knuckleheads that call themselves "hunters" also consider themselves "shooters" at the range...

Y'all know the type: FULL SIZE silhouette target at 3 yards and still spray rounds all over the place, shooting a Hand Cannon (44 mag or 50 AE) on a crowded indoor range. Not being muzzle conscious (I usually tell them where I'm going to stick their weapon if they don't quit pointing it at other people). I really don't suffer idiocy lightly. I do my best to see them removed from the range before they hurt someone else. let them test Darwin in private where they can't take anyone else out of the gene pool with them.
Those fellows are called "Blackshirts" MSC.

They always wear Blackshirts, answer every question using military Acronyms, wear black plastic framed glasses with thick lenses, have dainty little hands and hog the range.

Back in high school, we used to shove them in their lockers and throw them out of the locker room naked. They all owned slide rules back then.

Almost every range has a few. Thank God, mine doesn't.

Then there's the range Azzhole.
They take it upon themselves to teach everyone how to shoot. Walk from station to station correcting problems and usually shoot a Kel Tec.:X

The standard response when you tell him to go mind his own F^^^^^ing business is "I'm gonna to report you".

Thankfully, we don't have any of those either. Had one but I asked him if he'd be the moving target holder and he resigned.:)
 

MSC 45ACP

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2009
Messages
2,840
Location
Newport News, Virginia, USA
imported post

Very well-put, Peter Nap! Good descriptions.

Had a "blackshirt" with one of those single-shot hand cannons that shoots rifle rounds with a screw-on breach shootingafew lanes overat an outdoor range in Texas. The breach was off, so I knew it couldn't shoot, but I noticed he was in the habit of pointing the thing down the bench at me when he reloaded. The first time I politely (without profanity) told him to keep his weapon pointed downrange or in a SAFE direction at ALL times while he was there.

I know he heard me because he cocked his head, furrowed his browand looked at me quizically after I said it. Maybe he didn't understand the simple polite words because he did it AGAIN after his next shot. I unloaded and benched my pistol and walked over to him and his buddies and used more descriptive adjectives he might understand and told him I was going to violently insert his POS hand cannon (scope and all) into his rectal orifice if he did it again.

He got:what:and walked away. He came back with an RO and the elderly RO (A WW 2 veteran)asked mewhat had happened and why I felt it necessary to "curse him out". I told him what the rump ranger had done and he immediately told the clown to pack up his chit and not to come back to that range.

It was a PUBLIC range. Blackshirt got Blackballed from the PUBLIC shooting range. I was a regular there and brought CG units there to shoot at least once a week. He was the most complete azzwhole I'd ever encountered at a range. Most people listen and pay attention the first time...
 

ScottNH

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2006
Messages
140
Location
Live Free or Die, ,
imported post

There is a world of difference between shooting a practice arrow at a fixed target and a live arrow at a moving animal.
"A live arrow?" I don't bow hunt, so what are you guys using, little warheads on the "live" arrows? Are they like little shark bang-sticks? I never knew it was so sophisticated.
 

nova

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2007
Messages
3,149
Location
US
imported post

MSC 45ACP wrote:
Very well-put, Peter Nap! Good descriptions.

Had a "blackshirt" with one of those single-shot hand cannons that shoots rifle rounds with a screw-on breach shootingafew lanes overat an outdoor range in Texas. The breach was off, so I knew it couldn't shoot, but I noticed he was in the habit of pointing the thing down the bench at me when he reloaded. The first time I politely (without profanity) told him to keep his weapon pointed downrange or in a SAFE direction at ALL times while he was there.

I know he heard me because he cocked his head, furrowed his browand looked at me quizically after I said it. Maybe he didn't understand the simple polite words because he did it AGAIN after his next shot. I unloaded and benched my pistol and walked over to him and his buddies and used more descriptive adjectives he might understand and told him I was going to violently insert his POS hand cannon (scope and all) into his rectal orifice if he did it again.

He got:what:and walked away. He came back with an RO and the elderly RO (A WW 2 veteran)asked mewhat had happened and why I felt it necessary to "curse him out". I told him what the rump ranger had done and he immediately told the clown to pack up his chit and not to come back to that range.

It was a PUBLIC range. Blackshirt got Blackballed from the PUBLIC shooting range. I was a regular there and brought CG units there to shoot at least once a week. He was the most complete azzwhole I'd ever encountered at a range. Most people listen and pay attention the first time...
I had to tell a guy to stop dry firing at people who were down range checking targets. :what:

A firm "STOP" from a guy with his hand on his loaded holstered sidearm is apparently very easily understood.
 

The Wolfhound

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2009
Messages
728
Location
Henrico, Virginia, USA
imported post

I would imagine the reference is field points vs. broadheads. You know target arrows and hunting arrows? A large part of the world has no idea there is a difference in arrows for different purposes just like FMJ vs. JHP.
 

mpg9999

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 24, 2008
Messages
410
Location
, Virginia, USA
imported post

nova wrote:
I had to tell a guy to stop dry firing at people who were down range checking targets. :what:

A firm "STOP" from a guy with his hand on his loaded holstered sidearm is apparently very easily understood.
Unbelievable. I'm not sure what I would do if I witnessed that.
 

ScottNH

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2006
Messages
140
Location
Live Free or Die, ,
imported post

The Wolfhound wrote:
I would imagine the reference is field points vs. broadheads. You know target arrows and hunting arrows? A large part of the world has no idea there is a difference in arrows for different purposes just like FMJ vs. JHP.
Oh, I know. It was just a ignorant characterization on her part. "Live" arrows? She made it sound like "practice" arrows were some kind of kid-friendlynerf thing that would bounce off if they hit something. Like FMJ vs JHP, neither negates the lethality of the underlying projectile.
 

Tomahawk

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2006
Messages
5,117
Location
4 hours south of HankT, ,
imported post

A few years back I was at Clarke Bros. and the range azzhole was the also the range officer. He hogged up the best shooting lane all day, answered questions with smart, single word answers, and was generally a fat richard cranium. He also liked to ask you for your receipts to make sure you were using their ammo. His perogative, of course, but it was my perogative to stop going there.
 

Nelson_Muntz

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 5, 2008
Messages
697
Location
Manassas, Virginia, USA
imported post

Chrissakes, this woman is right!! Friggen Bloomie shoulda settled in this land 1000 years ago to stop those dumbazz indians from killin' animals in their immediate area, in front of their chillun' !!
 

Pagan

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2009
Messages
629
Location
Gloucester, Virginia, USA
imported post

Nelson_Muntz wrote:
Chrissakes, this woman is right!! Friggen Bloomie shoulda settled in this land 1000 years ago to stop those dumbazz indians from killin' animals in their immediate area, in front of their chillun' !!
:lol:
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
imported post

If that dang deer falls in my yard, he's MINE....at least the back strap and the roasts. :lol:

Yata hey
 
Top