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Thread: Transport/Storage help

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    I joined here a little awhile ago and I loved the site. I'm am open carry nearly 24/7; my only problem that I have is about storage and transporting. I have Acura Integra 2DR hatchback. Though it appears to have a trunk it technically doesn’t since it's a hatchback. So I installed Red Brady Lockbox behind my passenger seat bolted and secured to the floor so I can have a "closed container." Also, I’m so scared of the Gun-Free-School-Zone that when I drive though place where’s there are schools I just lock it up (unloaded) with the magazines in the glove. I'm not violating the law if I drive around (transporting) with it locked up other public places?



    Second, when I go to work, the post office, etc, I also lock inside the box. That would be considered securing and not against the law?



    P.S: I’m not asking for any legal advice, but merely your opinion J.







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    Regular Member simmonsjoe's Avatar
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    MaD.S wrote:
    I joined here a little awhile ago and I loved the site. I'm am open carry nearly 24/7; my only problem that I have is about storage and transporting. I have Acura Integra 2DR hatchback. Though it appears to have a trunk it technically doesn’t since it's a hatchback. So I installed Red Brady Lockbox behind my passenger seat bolted and secured to the floor so I can have a "closed container." Also, I’m so scared of the Gun-Free-School-Zone that when I drive though place where’s there are schools I just lock it up (unloaded) with the magazines in the glove. I'm not violating the law if I drive around (transporting) with it locked up other public places?

    *

    Second, when I go to work, the post office, etc, I also lock inside the box. That would be considered securing and not against the law?

    *

    P.S: I’m not asking for any legal advice, but merely your opinion J.



    *

    You need to ask for legal advice as you are committing crimes.
    illegal ≠ immoral legal ≠ moral
    [SIZE=1]"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself. "Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent." - Thomas Jefferson
    G19 Gen 4; Bersa Thunder 380; Sig Sauer P238; Kel-Tec su-16c

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    What crimes am I commiting? And I only made the comment about the legal advice because the polices are"don't ask, don't tell."

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    Regular Member virginiatuck's Avatar
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    MaD.S wrote:
    What crimes am I commiting? And I only made the comment about the legal advice because the polices are"don't ask, don't tell."
    Regarding firearms at post offices, see CODE OF FEDERAL REGULATIONS: TITLE 39 > CHAPTER 1 > SUB-CHAPTER D > PART 32 > §232.1(l) Conduct on postal property.

    Regarding firearms on or within 1000 feet of elementary or secondary school property anywhere in the United States, see US CODE: TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 44 > § 922(q) Gun Free School Zone Act

    Regarding firearms on K-12 school property in Virginia, see Code of Virginia: §18.2-308.1 Possession of firearm, stun weapon, or other weapon on school property prohibited..

    For the federal regulations, or any regulations for that matter, don't forget to read the accompanying definitions section, US CODE: TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 44 > § 921

    Regarding your lock box, that ought to be sufficient for interstate transport and when on any property that would allow you to store firearms in a locked container.

    Regarding interstate transport of firearms, see US CODE: TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 44 > § 926A

    Try the search function of the forum to find the many detailed discussions regarding all of these topics. They have been discussed ad nauseam throughout all the state forums as well as the general forums.

    My opinion is that you need to do a lot of reading. The USC, CFR, VAC, and Code of VA are all on-line and can be searched.


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    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    simmonsjoe wrote:
    You need to ask for legal advice as you are committing crimes.
    Really?

    No, not really.


    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
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    You didn't ask for legal advice, but I'm giving it anyway.

    You're being more careful than most people are, and what you've described is the legally correct way to do it. You can drive from Virginia to Ohio by way of Maryland and DC with the guns secured that way if you want to. The laws on the subject generally prohibit the use of gloveboxes and center consoles as storage areas, but say nothing about proximity to the driver, as long as the box is secured.

    The Code of Federal Regulations is a compendium of regulations for administrative agencies to follow. Congress can pass legislation making it illegal for just plain folks, not governmental employees, to violate such regulations. There is such a regulation regarding possession of firearms on military posts, for example. But not the post office, as far as I know. So the USPS regulations govern postal employees but not me. There is a federal statute that makes it illegal to be in possession of a firearm in "facilities", but "facilities" is defined to mean buildings and structures actually being used by the federal government; not parking lots, not lobbies of office buildings in which some agency happens to rent space.


    With respect to the school zones thing, the federal statute specifically exempts a gun:
    that is—
    (I) not loaded; and
    (II) in a locked container, or a locked firearms rack that is on a motor vehicle;
    (18 USC §922(q)(2)(B)(iii))

    However, you may not pass the Virginia safety inspection if the floorboards have been perforated to allow the bolts to go through. I'd be sure to have some silicone caulk visible on both sides of the bolts so you can satisfy the inspection station that there is no possible way that exhaust gas can leak through.

    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

    By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice, merely personal opinion. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

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    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    user wrote:
    However, you may not pass the Virginia safety inspection if the floorboards have been perforated to allow the bolts to go through. I'd be sure to have some silicone caulk visible on both sides of the bolts so you can satisfy the inspection station that there is no possible way that exhaust gas can leak through.
    I can tell you from many, MANY years of amateur auto repair and stereo installations that additional holes in a vehicle [most-likely] will not fail an inspection.

    If you're concerned about what they check, there's always the VA State Police web site.

    http://www.vsp.state.va.us/Safety.sh...pectionProgram

    Under item 23 you might have a problem, but if there are bolts securing an object to the floor (or trunk) pan, then the holes are not necessarily (open) through which exhaust fumes could pass.

    On the other counts regarding federal administrative codes and whatnot, I believe you are pretty spot-on.
    You can drive from Virginia to Ohio by way of Maryland and DC with the guns secured that way if you want to.
    If it's legal where you're coming from and legal where you're going, so long as it's locked up along the way (and this guy's taken more than enough precaution from my POV) "transporting" is 100% lawful.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

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    Before everyone dogpiles onto MaD.Sabout how he is "committing crimes"
    Thanks Bill In Va (and other helpful people), allI'm trying to do is get the support of my fellow firearm supporters. I didn't mean to confuse anyone, but the post office I go to is inside a shopping center and I don't believe they have control of the shopping center parking lot (I could be wrong though, but I doubt it).

    It seems that I am within the codes standard with the "container," but I wont have to worry about the dreaded GFSZAin 44 days (and counting).Like always I will still continue to open carry except in places wereit will obviously causea problem.

    PS: Watch out for the international police since Interpol now has full immunity in the U.S...

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    say nothing about proximity to the driver, as long as the box is secured.
    That was any answer that I was looking for too, thanks user.

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    MaD.S wrote:
    ...
    PS: Watch out for the international police since Interpol now has full immunity in the U.S...
    That doesn't mean they're immunized in Virginia, necessarily, nor that they have jurisdiction. My guess is that the reason for that executive order (which only affects federal executive employees, btw), is that the current administration is attempting to clothe U.S. officials and agents in the homeland insecurity department with immunity from prosecution for illegal activities they've been doing all along. Remember the Atty. General promised an "investigation"? My guess is that this is the result - it's a legal fiction to "uncriminalize" criminal behavior.
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

    By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice, merely personal opinion. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

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    Regular Member virginiatuck's Avatar
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    MaD.S wrote:
    Before everyone dogpiles onto MaD.Sabout how he is "committing crimes"
    Thanks Bill In Va (and other helpful people), allI'm trying to do is get the support of my fellow firearm supporters. I didn't mean to confuse anyone, but the post office I go to is inside a shopping center and I don't believe they have control of the shopping center parking lot (I could be wrong though, but I doubt it).

    It seems that I am within the codes standard with the "container," but I wont have to worry about the dreaded GFSZAin 44 days (and counting).Like always I will still continue to open carry except in places wereit will obviously causea problem.

    PS: Watch out for the international police since Interpol now has full immunity in the U.S...
    Just to clarify, I did not mean to imply that you were committing any crimes. It may have come across that way because of the line I quoted above my post. My intention was only to point you to the source so that you could decide for yourself; only you know all of the facts surrounding your situations.

    Carry on...

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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    MaD.S wrote:
    Before everyone dogpiles onto MaD.Sabout how he is "committing crimes"
    Thanks Bill In Va (and other helpful people), allI'm trying to do is get the support of my fellow firearm supporters. I didn't mean to confuse anyone, but the post office I go to is inside a shopping center and I don't believe they have control of the shopping center parking lot (I could be wrong though, but I doubt it).

    It seems that I am within the codes standard with the "container," but I wont have to worry about the dreaded GFSZAin 44 days (and counting).Like always I will still continue to open carry except in places wereit will obviously causea problem.

    PS: Watch out for the international police since Interpol now has full immunity in the U.S...
    As I understand it, and I welcome corrections with this, a post office which is in such a location and therefore shares certain common areas, such as sidewalks, porticos, and parking lots, those common areas do not constitute a location or facility where the carrying of a gun is a federal crime. So you could walk right by the doors to the post office or park your car in front of it then get out with your gun in full view and be fine.

    As I said, I am open to corrections with this.

    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

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    Regular Member virginiatuck's Avatar
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    SouthernBoy wrote:
    MaD.S wrote:
    Before everyone dogpiles onto MaD.Sabout how he is "committing crimes"
    Thanks Bill In Va (and other helpful people), allI'm trying to do is get the support of my fellow firearm supporters. I didn't mean to confuse anyone, but the post office I go to is inside a shopping center and I don't believe they have control of the shopping center parking lot (I could be wrong though, but I doubt it).

    It seems that I am within the codes standard with the "container," but I wont have to worry about the dreaded GFSZAin 44 days (and counting).Like always I will still continue to open carry except in places wereit will obviously causea problem.

    PS: Watch out for the international police since Interpol now has full immunity in the U.S...
    As I understand it, and I welcome corrections with this, a post office which is in such a location and therefore shares certain common areas, such as sidewalks, porticos, and parking lots, those common areas do not constitute a location or facility where the carrying of a gun is a federal crime. So you could walk right by the doors to the post office or park your car in front of it then get out with your gun in full view and be fine.

    As I said, I am open to corrections with this.
    Would you welcome affirmations instead of corrections? I concur with your summation.

    As I read it, the regulation only applies to any real property that is under the charge and control of the Postal Service *except* any portions of that real property that are leased/subleased by the Postal Service to private tenants for their exclusive use.

    The other side of this is that if the Postal Service owned or leased the whole mall and leased or subleased space to the stores for their exclusive use, then the common areas, such as sidewalks and parking lots, would still be under the charge and control of the Postal Service.

    In any case, the regulation states that:
    "This section shall be posted and kept posted at a conspicuous place on all such property."

    So the question I pose is: if that section is not posted at a conspicuous place on the property, can it still be violated? For example, the section is only posted inside the building, and you remain outside.

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    Just to clarify, I did not mean to imply that you were committing any crimes.
    virginiatuckYou're ok. You were just posting the law as general information. You weren't accusing me of commiting crime likesimmonsjoewithout any bases to back up his accusations. I would have posted the info too. Thanks


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    virginiatuck wrote:
    SouthernBoy wrote:
    MaD.S wrote:
    Before everyone dogpiles onto MaD.Sabout how he is "committing crimes"
    Thanks Bill In Va (and other helpful people), allI'm trying to do is get the support of my fellow firearm supporters. I didn't mean to confuse anyone, but the post office I go to is inside a shopping center and I don't believe they have control of the shopping center parking lot (I could be wrong though, but I doubt it).

    It seems that I am within the codes standard with the "container," but I wont have to worry about the dreaded GFSZAin 44 days (and counting).Like always I will still continue to open carry except in places wereit will obviously causea problem.

    PS: Watch out for the international police since Interpol now has full immunity in the U.S...
    As I understand it, and I welcome corrections with this, a post office which is in such a location and therefore shares certain common areas, such as sidewalks, porticos, and parking lots, those common areas do not constitute a location or facility where the carrying of a gun is a federal crime. So you could walk right by the doors to the post office or park your car in front of it then get out with your gun in full view and be fine.

    As I said, I am open to corrections with this.
    Would you welcome affirmations instead of corrections? I concur with your summation.

    As I read it, the regulation only applies to any real property that is under the charge and control of the Postal Service *except* any portions of that real property that are leased/subleased by the Postal Service to private tenants for their exclusive use.

    The other side of this is that if the Postal Service owned or leased the whole mall and leased or subleased space to the stores for their exclusive use, then the common areas, such as sidewalks and parking lots, would still be under the charge and control of the Postal Service.

    In any case, the regulation states that:
    "This section shall be posted and kept posted at a conspicuous place on all such property."

    So the question I pose is: if that section is not posted at a conspicuous place on the property, can it still be violated? For example, the section is only posted inside the building, and you remain outside.
    Thank you for the affirmation. As for your second paragraph, that is a valid concern which I had not considered (thanks again). If such a situation existed, would one most likely see signs to the affect that the property was post office property (such as parking signs, marked off areas, etc.)?

    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

  17. #17
    Regular Member simmonsjoe's Avatar
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    SouthernBoy wrote:
    MaD.S wrote:
    Before everyone dogpiles onto MaD.Sabout how he is "committing crimes"
    Thanks Bill In Va (and other helpful people), allI'm trying to do is get the support of my fellow firearm supporters. I didn't mean to confuse anyone, but the post office I go to is inside a shopping center and I don't believe they have control of the shopping center parking lot (I could be wrong though, but I doubt it).

    It seems that I am within the codes standard with the "container," but I wont have to worry about the dreaded GFSZAin 44 days (and counting).Like always I will still continue to open carry except in places wereit will obviously causea problem.

    PS: Watch out for the international police since Interpol now has full immunity in the U.S...
    As I understand it, and I welcome corrections with this, a post office which is in such a location and therefore shares certain common areas, such as sidewalks, porticos, and parking lots, those common areas do not constitute a location or facility where the carrying of a gun is a federal crime. So you could walk right by the doors to the post office or park your car in front of it then get out with your gun in full view and be fine.

    As I said, I am open to corrections with this.
    I believe you are correct.
    illegal ≠ immoral legal ≠ moral
    [SIZE=1]"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself. "Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent." - Thomas Jefferson
    G19 Gen 4; Bersa Thunder 380; Sig Sauer P238; Kel-Tec su-16c

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