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Thread: Restrictions on buying a handgun

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    I'm not a resident of Utah. However, I do own a home there. (Highland) I also hold a Utah CFP.

    If I want to buy a gun what are my restrictions? I shop at Cabela's Lehi and that's where I'll be buying. Living in CA there is a 10 day waiting period. I understand there is no waiting period in Utah. But is it necessary to be a resident to be able to purchase? Would my CFP be taken into consideration? Does the gun have to be registered? Would I have to register it once I return to CA?

    Thank you

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    Hawaii FiveO wrote:
    I'm not a resident of Utah. However, I do own a home there. (Highland) I also hold a Utah CFP.

    If I want to buy a gun what are my restrictions? I shop at Cabela's Lehi and that's where I'll be buying. Living in CA there is a 10 day waiting period. I understand there is no waiting period in Utah. But is it necessary to be a resident to be able to purchase? Would my CFP be taken into consideration? Does the gun have to be registered? Would I have to register it once I return to CA?

    Thank you
    Well it's been awhile since I've been on here, missed it. To answer some of your questions: there's no waiting periord here, you do have to be a resident to purchase a handgun, they take your info and contact the BCI (bureau of criminal investigation) they call and check your info, total time is maybe 5-15min (depending on how busy Cabela's is) when I went & got my XD there were alot of customers so 10-15min for me. They do use you CFP only to waive the background stuff but they still have to call BCI to check if it's valid etc. I don't know how that all works when you owna home here if that considers you a resident or not... 10days doesn't seem too long. This is from the BCI home page:


    Purchasing a Gun in Utah
    It is unlawful for a gun dealer to sell or transfer any firearm until an instant criminal history background check is conducted and approved by BCI.

    A valid Utah concealed firearm permit may be used to waive the BCI background check and the corresponding fees. However, the dealer is still required to call BCI to confirm the validity of the concealed firearm permit.

    A person who wishes to purchase a handgun must show proof of Utah residency.

    A person who wishes to purchase a rifle or shotgun is not required to show Utah residency; however, the purchaser will be required to comply with the laws of the state in which he/she resides.

    Laws governing the use of concealed firearms differ from state to state. It is important to understand the laws to ensure that your actions are in compliance with Utah law.


    Sources: 53-5-704 Division duties - Utah Code §§ 23-20-11 et seq., 24-2-17, 76-10-301, 76-10-501 et seq.



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    bdrum, just found out from Cabela's that I would have to have a Utah ID such as a DL, which I don't have. Owning a home does not qualify.

    I can buy but they would have to ship it to a FFL here in CA. I'm not going to do that because of the high fees charged for that service. I've gotten quotes as high as $185. On the other hand, I wonder if I just couldn't get a Utah friend to buy it and then "give"the gunto me?

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    Hawaii FiveO wrote:
    On the other hand, I wonder if I just couldn't get a Utah friend to buy it and then "give"the gunto me?
    THAT would be a classic "straw man" purchase and it a serious no-no for both you and any "friend" foolish enough to do so.

    In fact, even if someone really did want to gift you a hand gun, I believe the transfer between residents of two different States legally has to take place through FFLs in the two States except for cases of inheritance. These residential requirement and limits on transfer of hand guns across State lines are contained in federal law.

    I would counsel you to comply with these laws, even as I urge you to work to get them repealed.

    Charles


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    Your best bet is to just ask them. Make sure you bring something current to prove that you are a Utah resident as well, be it a current utility bill (I'd bring one thats at least 90 days old as well), bank statement, or something else with your name and Utah address on it. If you dont have anything like that, I think you're pretty much out of luck as you cant prove you're a resident.

    As far as rules go, I'm not 100% certain, but I dont believe it says anything about a permanent or primary residence, but only being a resident of the state. You have a home in the state, so officially, you would be a resident.

    The relevant laws are 922.a.3 and 922.a.5 (of 18 USC Chapter 44 of the GCA) concerning transfers to/from people out of state.

    Also, 478.11 (of 27 CFR Part 478 of the GCA) defines state of residence if one has the intention of making a home in that state. That being said, in the examples given (example 2 specifically), if you have two homes in two different states, while in one of those states, you are a resident of the state you're currently in. (see http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/unli...tate-residency as well since it restates the law). I guess it really comes down to if you actually live in the Highland home at any time in the year or not. If not (ie no house on property, house is rented to someone else, parents house, or something else), you're stuck with buying the firearm in your own state.

    If you do feel the law is applicable to your situation, you'll probably have to fill out the 4473 with your Utah address, since that would be your residence while you're in Utah. Ask them, as they'll know a lot more about it and if they're willing to do the transfer or not. I know the E-4473 (electronic version) allows a primary and secondary residence addresses, but I dont know of anyone actually using it. If you really feel ambitious, you could track down and print the above mentioned laws and regulations to show them if they're on the fence.

    Legally, if you ever occupy the Utah house, they should be able to do the transfer, but ultimately, I think it'll be up to the FFL if they want to do it or not. I wouldn't push it if they say no though, as all it takes is the suspicion that someone is going to falsify the 4473 to be able to refuse the transfer, no actual proof needed. (Read the place the FFL needs to sign, saying they believe that the transferee answered everything truthfully. If they dont believe it and sign it, they'd be falsifying the 4473 themselves and breaking the law.)

    Just be 100% straight forward, bring lots of id with the utah address, and you'll probably be good. Worst case is they say no.

    If you (and the FFL) decides to allow the transfer, as far as registering when you get back to Cali, no clue. Does Cali have a gun registration? If so, then you'd probably want to get your firearm entered into their registration database as penalties for having an unregistered gun are probably high. You'd know what silly laws they have better than I would though.

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    If you are a resident of California and buy a handgun in Utah, you must ship it through a FFL agent. It is a felony to buy your handgun here and take it back to california.

    A strawman purchase mentioned earlier, is also a felony.

    Commit either of these acts, and you will lose your right to bear arms forever.

    Hope this answers your question.



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    As Manlaansaid, federal law allows aperson with multiple places of residence to purchase firearms in each state in which he or she has a residence during the applicable period when he or she is actually residing in that state. See Example 2 for definition of "State of Residence" in 27 C.F.R. § 478.11. However, many dealers may be unaware of the law relating to dual residents or may simply refuse to sell to the part-time seasonal resident. While you can try to educate them about the law if the former is the case, your only option is to go elsewhere if the latter is the case. If you can make this purchase in Utah, your Utah CFP would exempt you from having to under go an NICS check.

    Unfortunately, I do not know what you would have to do to legally take to California a gun legally purchased in Utah during one of your periods of residence in Utah in which federal law deems you a Utah resident for firearm purchase purposes.
    James M. "Jim" Mullins, Jr., Esq.
    Admitted to practice in West Virginia and Florida.

    Founder, Past President, Treasurer, and General Counsel, West Virginia Citizens Defense League, Inc.
    Life Member, NRA

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    Hawaii FiveO wrote:
    I'm not a resident of Utah. However, I do own a home there. (Highland) I also hold a Utah CFP.
    I thought we already went thru this on the California forum - if you are not a resident of Utah you cannot legally buy handguns there - posts like this are very suspicious - are you an anti-gun troll?

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    I had an out of state license when I tried to get my gun here 2 weeks ago (at "Get Some"), but they said they couldn't sell me the gun unless I had a Utah DL, they said even with a Utah CC permit, they still can't sell it to you unless you have a Utah DL/ID. Good luck at the DMV, starting Jan 1, now you have to have a ton of stuff including Birth Certificate, SS Card, Passport, etc...

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    YoZUpZ wrote:
    I had an out of state license when I tried to get my gun here 2 weeks ago (at "Get Some"), but they said they couldn't sell me the gun unless I had a Utah DL, they said even with a Utah CC permit, they still can't sell it to you unless you have a Utah DL/ID. Good luck at the DMV, starting Jan 1, now you have to have a ton of stuff including Birth Certificate, SS Card, Passport, etc...
    The federal law limiting gun sales across State lines should be repealed. To presume that one State can reach across State lines and limit what its residents can do when they are in a different State is just asinine.

    If I want to go to Nevada to gamble that is not Utah's concern. If someone from Cali wants to visit a legal brothel in Nevada, no skin off Cali's knees. So there is no reason why Cali should have any say at all about who can or cannot buy a gun in Utah. Indeed, quite the contrary, the 2nd amendment should be "incorporated" against Cali and Cali should not be allowed to infringe the basic human right of self defense by limiting firearm sales or possession anywhere near to what they currently do.

    That all said, the law is the law and must be obeyed until it is repealed. And Utah's efforts to avoid issuing official State ID to illegal aliens is to lauded, even if it is inconvenient for the rest of us.

    Charles

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