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Thread: self defense shooting in Spokane

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    SPOKANE -- A young businessman facing possible attempted murder charges after a chaotic confrontation in downtown Coeur d'Alene told police he felt threatened when he opened fire on a group of men looking for a fight.
    "I did what I was trained," referring to his concealed weapons permit, Adam M. Johnson told police, according to court documents filed Monday. "I felt threatened, and I didn't feel that there was any other way out of it."
    But authorities investigating the early Sunday shooting that left two Moses Lake men with gunshot wounds are skeptical.
    They're recommending that Johnson, 25, be charged with attempted murder and aggravated battery, concluding that the gunfire preceded a beating that Johnson later suffered at the hands of the group.
    Johnson, the founder of a Coeur d'Alene-based telecommunications company and a member of the Post Falls Chamber of Commerce's board of directors, remained in Kootenai County jail on $500,000 bond after appearing in District Court via video Monday.
    He'll be arraigned on the charges, which include increased penalties because a weapon was used, within two weeks. Johnson could face up to 30 years in prison.
    His criminal history, which includes a 2006 drunken driving conviction and a dismissed charge of carrying a concealed weapon while intoxicated, was a factor in the bond amount approved by Judge Penny Friedlander.
    Meanwhile, shooting victim Brandon J. Burgess, 25, of Moses Lake, was improving at a Seattle hospital, where he underwent surgery to remove a bullet from his stomach.
    He was off a ventilator, alert and talking at Harborview Medical Center, said his brother, Jordan Burgess.
    Also injured was Bradley J. Phillips, 25, who was shot below the left knee cap. He was treated at Kootenai Medical Center and released.
    The men were in Coeur d'Alene for Christmas to visit the Burgesses' mother, who went to the bars with them that night and witnessed the shooting.
    Jordan Burgess, 21, said Johnson pulled a gun on the group after Johnson and Brandon Burgess pushed each other. They reportedly had argued earlier.
    Johnson told police he was "attacked and he defended himself," according to a police report.
    "Adam felt like that guy was giving him an ultimatum by coming towards him, that he needed to pull the trigger," according to a police report.
    Adam said he yelled stop twice and then 'squeezed.' "
    But the victims and their friends have a different recollection. They insist they only attacked after being fired upon, Jordan Burgess said in a phone interview from Harborview.
    "He did not get jumped," Burgess said of Johnson. "If anybody was acting in self-defense, it was the eight guys we had with us."
    Seth Gerber said Johnson was standing alone near Third Street and Sherman Avenue when Gerber and his friends, including the Burgesses, rounded the corner. They recognized him from an argument earlier that night at the Underground bar.
    Gerber said Johnson had been "talking trash"; others said Gerber had bumped into Johnson, then argued with him, according to police reports.
    When the men saw each other again just before the 12:44 a.m. shooting, Johnson said something about the Shore Lounge being slow, Gerber told police.
    Phillips, who was shot below the knee, told police Johnson pulled the gun, a .40-caliber, after one of the Burgess brothers said, "If you want to do something then let's just settle it right now," according to a police report.



    http://www.tri-cityherald.com/crime/story/845785.html


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    Regular Member gsx1138's Avatar
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    Like I told my wife, "When I wear my gun I don't get to be an assh0le." I have to be on my best behavior because if something gets started and it turns out I couldn't stop running my mouth I'll be the one in jail.
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    Can you edit the title? The only thing 'Spokane' about this is where the story was filed. The shooting happened in Coeur d'Alene, just like it says in the first line quoted.

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    Regular Member sempercarry's Avatar
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    Its hard to tell if it was justified without being there. If there was a large group threatening to beat a man it would have been justified in my mind. We have seen that in a pack mentality, a beating can turn deadly in an instant.

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    Regular Member TechnoWeenie's Avatar
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    And of course you have a group of guys who beat his ass, they're not going to say... 'He shot at us because we wanted to beat his ass', of course they're gonna say they beat him up because he shot at them first...

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    The Burgess brothers story seems completely believable to me.....when the shooting starts, real bad-asses like them just rush the shooter and take his gun away.......:quirky

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    Regular Member DEROS72's Avatar
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    I agree with both techno and semper.I think there is more to it.I believe these guys are covering their own ass.How many of you remember me telling you about the guy that threatened me at Safeway.When I ignored him, he escalated even bringing race into it,screaming I carried because I like to shoot black people.

    I didn't respond in anyway and finally I called the cops myself and told them I was armed and didn't want to be in a position to defend myself.fortunately he left. I also had a store full of Safeway staff that witnessed the whole thing.If I had of reached for my gun then I would look like the agressor.Did this guy display his weapon prematurely bringing on a more threatening response.?I could see a pack mentality developing in a situation like that.I know I would feel threatened if 8 guys were ready to charge me.

    I believe perhaps these men kept esculating untill maybe the fellow felt he had no choice.I also believe in doing whatever you can to extricate yourself from the situation if possible but in a possble pack mentality scenareo theywould all probaly do whatever to cover their butts.And an anti gun bid to make Joe citizen look like the irresponsible because he had a gun.Be intresting to see how this shakes out....

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    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    That is one big issue; that this man has only himself as a witness, and 8 others who are saying something different, all eight know one another. I always hoped that if I was ever attacked it would be in public, with many people around, where I can yell loudly my intentions for all to hear before shots are fired.

    That is a scary situation to have a group of people attacking you, you shoot to defend yourself, and then your the one sitting in jail......all the facts are not out, I know from experience.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

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    Regular Member DEROS72's Avatar
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    Sort of one of the indicators of how society here has become so screwed up.Sometimes it seems victims are portrayed as the great satan for simply defending himself or his family.

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    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    I think that people who carry, and who might become involved in a self-defense situation should know that the second you effecctively subdue your attacker, the attacker becomes the victim, and you the criminal...it's crappy, but the way it is.

    Then all of us on the outside have the luxery of sitting here reading bias articles, that are full of gaps. Once you are in the situation, and you are the subject of the media, you realize how inaccurate the whole situation becomes; the articles of course are not going to favor the one defending him/herself with a firearm.

    I wish this man luck, and hope that he was defending himself,a nd that he didn't lie, ebcause once you lie, you have no credibility, not a position you want to be in.

    Personally, I tell the truth, and if the truth incarcerates me, than so be it! i would rather go down telling the truth, than a liar.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

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    Regular Member DEROS72's Avatar
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    Well said Silvia. agreed.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    There has to be more to this story, but what is the rule of thumb it takes less than 2 seconds for someone to get to if they are under 7yrds? So if they were rushing himit was justification.

    Reminds me of the Seattle incident where the woman shot the guy who got off the bus. She was belligerant and egged the guy on. Then shot him when he came at her. Good reminder to keep our tempers/attitude in check while carrying.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    sudden valley gunner wrote:

    Reminds me of the Seattle incident where the woman shot the guy who got off the bus. She was belligerant and egged the guy on. Then shot him when he came at her. Good reminder to keep our tempers/attitude in check while carrying.
    You see, an assumption on your part regarding the downtown incident. The prosecutors findings said nothing about the woman "egging" the man on, there was a statement that someone had made an "obsence" gesture at the man, but did not specify "who."

    As I said above, we all have the luxery of taking what an article says, and based on the information formulating an idea of what happen; I wouldn't put much stock in the idea you come up with.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

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    Thats interesting. Im pretty sure I went to school with Jordan Burgess.

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    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    OK, questions. Did he CC into a bar? Was he intoxicated while CC?The "victims" freinds, attacked a guy with a gun? He was only able to get 2 shots off? If he indeed did defend himself, I feel this is situation is one of my biggest fears and you all have seen me ask, how threatened to do have to be before drawing your weapon. How beat up do you have to be, how much blood do you have to lose? If he did instigate it, I think he is damn lucky he didnt get shot with his own gun. Hopefully some non biased witnesses show up. Too bad there arent camera'son every corner just for something like this. (ok, that last comment should bring some retaliation)
    If you voted for Obama to prove you are not a racist...
    what will you do now to prove you are not stupid?

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    You are right sylvia my post was poorly worded. I on no way meant to say the seattle woman was wrong in her use of self defense. I was trying to emphasize that we really need to excercise caution in our actions. Because of how many had reported what the reactions she and her family had to a beligerant man.we would want to make sure we don't give the anti's any more ammo to use against us.

    Was the man in spokane acting wrong? Oont know.still doesn,t give others the right to threaten him or try to charge him. Same with the woman in seattle no matter what the actions of her it didn't give the man the right to charge her.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member DEROS72's Avatar
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    I sure hope we don't wake up to new stories of shootings ,or idiots firing their guns in the air things like that.I really hope we don't start 2010 with any of that.

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    There is a 32 acre field across the street from my house. Never hears a gun shot at all but did see a pyrotec hnic device (rocket) exit the fieldf at midnight. I am a licensed pyrotechnician and was able to recognize what it was

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    Regular Member Lammo's Avatar
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    Slightly more than minor quibble - - this happened in Idaho. Last time I checked Coeur d'Alene was more than a bit over the border. Not that the City of Spokane wouldn't like to try to annex Cd'A.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coeur_d%27Alene,_Idaho


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    I think one of his big mistakes was talking to the police! After a defensive situation when police arrive you tell them you want to speak to an attorney, never under any situation should you speak to a police officer it is there job to lock you up.

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    FunkTrooper wrote:
    I think one of his big mistakes was talking to the police! After a defensive situation when police arrive you tell them you want to speak to an attorney, never under any situation should you speak to a police officer it is there job to lock you up.
    Their job is to do an investigation.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    erps wrote:
    FunkTrooper wrote:
    I think one of his big mistakes was talking to the police! After a defensive situation when police arrive you tell them you want to speak to an attorney, never under any situation should you speak to a police officer it is there job to lock you up.
    Their job is to do an investigation.
    Wouldn't that be the detective's job? Still good advice, never talk to the police, when they are "investigating" you.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member kwiebe's Avatar
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    He needs a good defense atty for sure, but also I'd be concerned about the eventual civil suit(s). This is going to enrich a few attorneys...

    Edit: Wow I guess the civil suit is already upon him:

    http://www.kxly.com/news/22106921/detail.html


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    erps wrote:
    FunkTrooper wrote:
    I think one of his big mistakes was talking to the police! After a defensive situation when police arrive you tell them you want to speak to an attorney, never under any situation should you speak to a police officer it is there job to lock you up.
    Their job is to do an investigation.
    And that investigation could end with someone behind bars, the point is whether your innocent or not don't talk to the police.

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    The civil suit will financially ruin him, unless it is determined by the prosecutor to be a SD shoot and charges are dropped then under ID law he is immune from civil liability. There is a lot of info the public hasn't seen yet, as is typical of cases like this. Based on the very limited info released, I am going to withhold judgement as to whether or not it was a good shoot. I would like it to be a good shoot though, 8+ people vs. 1 is disparity of force if I have ever seen it. I highly doubt 8 people in Downtown CdA would jump a shooter with his gun drawn.

    Assuming he was drinking in the bar, then he is already guilty of a misdemeanor in ID, can't carry a concealed weapon while intoxicated. When I go out, the gun stays home, even if I am not drinking. It is never a good idea to take a gun to a bar.

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