Jeff Hayes
Regular Member
+1000 give or take.
-
We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
-
If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
-
Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.
Firearms prohibited sign on Seattle Link Light Rail?
- Thread starter xiphoris
- Start date
+1000 give or take.
1245A Defender
Regular Member
well,,,
I and others I know will be glad to miss the bus also, as we stand up for our rights, and protect and defend yours!
Also some writings from "true tales of self defense", "well here are a few of my stories"
Originally Posted by DeltaOps
it is sad times when one actually has to prove themselves to others. From one Vet to another, thank you for your service. I just never hope I have to use my weapon on any American, but I will be ready should that day come.
I asked him, what does this even mean, where did this even come from?
He did Not respond!
Ok lets stand at a bus or train station (stop) while OC'ing. We both get on at the same time and we both get stopped by a LEO. They ask to see our CPL. You stand your ground while you miss the train and or bus while I show it and make it to my destination in time.
If nobody gets my ppoint I am trying to make, let me know ,I will draw it in crayon fo you.
I and others I know will be glad to miss the bus also, as we stand up for our rights, and protect and defend yours!
Also some writings from "true tales of self defense", "well here are a few of my stories"
it is sad times when one actually has to prove themselves to others. From one Vet to another, thank you for your service. I just never hope I have to use my weapon on any American, but I will be ready should that day come.
I asked him, what does this even mean, where did this even come from?
He did Not respond!
Last edited:
DeltaOps
Regular Member
its all obvious that you only care about yourelves on this forum. I am done here. You all want to fight for our rights, then lets join together and do so. To many times I have seen you all argue with yourselves about stupid ****.
Difdi
Regular Member
It depends on whether a bus counts as a vehicle for carry purposes or not. Possessing a firearm in certain areas is a crime; Some areas allow an unloaded firearm but not a loaded one. Some areas exempt certain people (such as police or a CPL holder). Simply seeing a person with a firearm in those areas, unless they are obviously exempted (such as a uniformed police officer, for example) IS probable cause that a crime is being committed. Showing a CPL proves that you are one of the exemptions, and unless you wear your CPL pinned to your lapel (or duct taped to your forehead) at all times, there is no obvious visible exemption to the law. So there is PC to check for a CPL.
This is my biggest pet peeve about the place too. Make a well-reasoned, rational post with a single typo in it, and that typo is all certain forum members can see in your post. And they go for the throat.
Last edited:
1245A Defender
Regular Member
Well,,,
Carrying a fire arm is a presumptivly lawful activity.
It, in itself does not provide PC or RAS of a crime!
There is No Gun Exception to the 4th amendement,,, florida v. j.l.
deltaops did not get but hurt over any spelling errors!!!!
read his post in this thread to understand him better, and
understand what we have said to him about his posts,
and his attitude toward our rights, our liberty and our freedom...
Carrying a fire arm is a presumptivly lawful activity.
It, in itself does not provide PC or RAS of a crime!
There is No Gun Exception to the 4th amendement,,, florida v. j.l.
deltaops did not get but hurt over any spelling errors!!!!
read his post in this thread to understand him better, and
understand what we have said to him about his posts,
and his attitude toward our rights, our liberty and our freedom...
Last edited:
DeltaOps
Regular Member
I and others I know will be glad to miss the bus also, as we stand up for our rights, and protect and defend yours!
Also some writings from "true tales of self defense", "well here are a few of my stories"
Originally Posted by DeltaOps
it is sad times when one actually has to prove themselves to others. From one Vet to another, thank you for your service. I just never hope I have to use my weapon on any American, but I will be ready should that day come.
I asked him, what does this even mean, where did this even come from?
He did Not respond!
I do not need to explain myself to you or anyone. Its obvious that parinoia is installed here. Have a nice day.
Last edited:
1245A Defender
Regular Member
Well,,,
Many posters have tired of this forum, and simply stopped reading and posting here.
Some posters get indignant and rant about mistreatment and unhappyness.
Then they tell everybody what bad people we are, then
they tell us they are taking their ball and going home, before they stomp off in a huff.
But they always come back, to complain some more!
the post i questioned deserves an answer to me, to us, and most of all to YOU!
you seem to be military, your post sounds an awful lot like a vow to take up arms,
to do your duty,
to just follow orders,
to enforce martial law,
by what ever way you may be told to do it,,,
including shooting Americans!!
Many posters have tired of this forum, and simply stopped reading and posting here.
Some posters get indignant and rant about mistreatment and unhappyness.
Then they tell everybody what bad people we are, then
they tell us they are taking their ball and going home, before they stomp off in a huff.
But they always come back, to complain some more!
the post i questioned deserves an answer to me, to us, and most of all to YOU!
you seem to be military, your post sounds an awful lot like a vow to take up arms,
to do your duty,
to just follow orders,
to enforce martial law,
by what ever way you may be told to do it,,,
including shooting Americans!!
DeltaOps
Regular Member
1245A Defender
Regular Member
massivedesign
Regular Member
+100..
Wasn't there somebody else in history who stood up for their rights regarding a bus? Something about assigned seating?
Freedom1Man
Regular Member
Well the unlawful part applies to both parts. EG no machine guns or brass knuckles as those are unlawful weapons or firearms.
If the weapon is legal then it can be on the light rail by the wording of the sign.
Difdi
Regular Member
RCW 9.41.050(2)(a): A person shall not carry or place a loaded pistol in any vehicle unless the person has a license to carry a concealed pistol and: (i) The pistol is on the licensee's person, (ii) the licensee is within the vehicle at all times that the pistol is there, or (iii) the licensee is away from the vehicle and the pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.
Carrying a loaded pistol in a vehicle is a misdemeanor unless you have a CPL. Carrying a concealed pistol is a crime unless you have a CPL. Unless you duct tape your CPL to your forehead, it is not obvious that you have one.
Yes, carrying a firearm is presumptively a lawful behavior in most places. But in those places where carry is illegal unless you are within one of the exemptions to the law, then there is indeed probable cause to check for a CPL and to make an arrest if there is no CPL.
DCKilla
Regular Member
Now, how is LE able to determine if the pistol is loaded or not without seizure?
1245A Defender
Regular Member
WTF is wrong with you?
DO NOT EDIT MY QUOTES!!!
my quote from post 52 is
Carrying a fire arm is a presumptivly lawful activity.
It, in itself does not provide PC or RAS of a crime!
There is No Gun Exception to the 4th amendement,,, florida v. j.l.
the supremes have noted that a gun is not RAS of crime!!
DO NOT EDIT MY QUOTES!!!
my quote from post 52 is
Carrying a fire arm is a presumptivly lawful activity.
It, in itself does not provide PC or RAS of a crime!
There is No Gun Exception to the 4th amendement,,, florida v. j.l.
the supremes have noted that a gun is not RAS of crime!!
DCKilla
Regular Member
RCW 9.41.050(2)(a): A person shall not carry or place a loaded pistol in any vehicle unless the person has a license to carry a concealed pistol and: (i) The pistol is on the licensee's person, (ii) the licensee is within the vehicle at all times that the pistol is there, or (iii) the licensee is away from the vehicle and the pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.
Going a little bit further, does this mean you can't carry in a vehicle without a CPL? Does this also mean you can't place a loaded pistol in a vehicle without a CPL?
Going a little bit further, does this mean you can't carry in a vehicle without a CPL? Does this also mean you can't place a loaded pistol in a vehicle without a CPL?
Last edited:
BigDave
Opt-Out Members
9.41.060 Exceptions to restrictions on carrying firearms.
The provisions of RCW 9.41.050 shall not apply to:
(1) Marshals, sheriffs, prison or jail wardens or their deputies, correctional personnel and community corrections officers as long as they are employed as such who have completed government-sponsored law enforcement firearms training and have been subject to a check through the national instant criminal background check system or an equivalent background check within the past five years, or other law enforcement officers of this state or another state. Correctional personnel and community corrections officers seeking the waiver provided for by this section are required to pay for any background check that is needed in order to exercise the waiver;
(2) Members of the armed forces of the United States or of the national guard or organized reserves, when on duty;
(3) Officers or employees of the United States duly authorized to carry a concealed pistol;
(4) Any person engaged in the business of manufacturing, repairing, or dealing in firearms, or the agent or representative of the person, if possessing, using, or carrying a pistol in the usual or ordinary course of the business;
(5) Regularly enrolled members of any organization duly authorized to purchase or receive pistols from the United States or from this state;
(6) Regularly enrolled members of clubs organized for the purpose of target shooting, when those members are at or are going to or from their places of target practice;
(7) Regularly enrolled members of clubs organized for the purpose of modern and antique firearm collecting, when those members are at or are going to or from their collector's gun shows and exhibits;
(8) Any person engaging in a lawful outdoor recreational activity such as hunting, fishing, camping, hiking, or horseback riding, only if, considering all of the attendant circumstances, including but not limited to whether the person has a valid hunting or fishing license, it is reasonable to conclude that the person is participating in lawful outdoor activities or is traveling to or from a legitimate outdoor recreation area;
(9) Any person while carrying a pistol unloaded and in a closed opaque case or secure wrapper; or
(10) Law enforcement officers retired for service or physical disabilities, except for those law enforcement officers retired because of mental or stress-related disabilities. This subsection applies only to a retired officer who has: (a) Obtained documentation from a law enforcement agency within Washington state from which he or she retired that is signed by the agency's chief law enforcement officer and that states that the retired officer was retired for service or physical disability; and (b) not been convicted or found not guilty by reason of insanity of a crime making him or her ineligible for a concealed pistol license.
sudden valley gunner
Regular Member
Don't matter how you define the law, it still has to be compatible with the constitution.
Article 1 Section 7 is stronger than our 4th.
Ok lets stand at a bus or train station (stop) while OC'ing. We both get on at the same time and we both get stopped by a LEO. They ask to see our CPL. You stand your ground while you miss the train and or bus while I show it and make it to my destination in time.
If nobody gets my ppoint I am trying to make, let me know ,I will draw it in crayon fo you.
Thank you for capitulating our freedoms, and enabling officers into thinking that everyone should be as "cooperative" as you..... and not taking your oath to uphold the constitution seriously......
Now there's a fellow Patriot!
Difdi
Regular Member
This is where the concept of Reasonable Suspicion comes into play. RS is not proof of a crime, merely that a reasonable person would suspect something. Reasonable Articulable Suspicion is the ability to state your RS aloud and have a reasonable person think you've got a point. Unlike California, people are not required by law in Washington to carry unloaded. An unloaded self-defense weapon is pretty useless except as a club or an empty threat against an aggressor. There is also the Rules of Handling Firearms, which state there is no such thing as an unloaded gun. Put simply, assuming the gun is loaded is reasonable.
You can carry unloaded in a vehicle without a CPL. This means if you don't have a CPL (or have one but don't have it with you) you must stop before getting into your vehicle and unload your weapon. This means emptying the chamber and removing the magazine on a semi-automatic, or emptying the cylinder (or removing the cylinder entirely, on some models) on a revolver. This may require you to unholster the pistol, depending on the model you own. If you unload after sitting down in your car, you have broken the law.
If you have your CPL with you, you don't need to unload before entering a vehicle.
Vitaeus
Regular Member
finally found an RCW to clarify the issue.
RCW 10.31.100
Arrest without warrant.
A police officer having probable cause to believe that a person has committed or is committing a felony shall have the authority to arrest the person without a warrant. A police officer may arrest a person without a warrant for committing a misdemeanor or gross misdemeanor only when the offense is committed in the presence of the officer, except as provided in subsections (1) through (10) of this section. (long list none apply, IMO)
Until you step onto the bus you have not committed the misdemeanor, therefore no detention is allowed, if you choose to consent to an encounter, that is your choice, but the officer has no FACT to base a detention on.
Reasonable suspicion is not based on suspicion it is based on specific articuable facts that add up to a suspicion. Fact "he has a gun", all the rest of it is assumptions.
http://www.atg.wa.gov/AGOOpinions/opinion.aspx?section=archive&id=5548 (1970 AG opinion), long and drawn out discussion but facts are cited as necessary again and again.
If the LEO has to stop and detain you and you miss your bus, he had best hope that you are in a forgiving mood or that you are actually guilty of a crime, since I woul;d be rather irate that he caused me to miss my bus. You can bet that the Sheriff or Chief would be getting an earful from me and mine on wasting both mine and the public's time.
RCW 10.31.100
Arrest without warrant.
A police officer having probable cause to believe that a person has committed or is committing a felony shall have the authority to arrest the person without a warrant. A police officer may arrest a person without a warrant for committing a misdemeanor or gross misdemeanor only when the offense is committed in the presence of the officer, except as provided in subsections (1) through (10) of this section. (long list none apply, IMO)
Until you step onto the bus you have not committed the misdemeanor, therefore no detention is allowed, if you choose to consent to an encounter, that is your choice, but the officer has no FACT to base a detention on.
Reasonable suspicion is not based on suspicion it is based on specific articuable facts that add up to a suspicion. Fact "he has a gun", all the rest of it is assumptions.
http://www.atg.wa.gov/AGOOpinions/opinion.aspx?section=archive&id=5548 (1970 AG opinion), long and drawn out discussion but facts are cited as necessary again and again.
If the LEO has to stop and detain you and you miss your bus, he had best hope that you are in a forgiving mood or that you are actually guilty of a crime, since I woul;d be rather irate that he caused me to miss my bus. You can bet that the Sheriff or Chief would be getting an earful from me and mine on wasting both mine and the public's time.
BigDave
Opt-Out Members
After taking a look at their homepage I found this
Anyone here carrying an unlawful weapon or firearms? Didn't think so. :lol:
It is possible they have already dealt with this issue as this thread began in 2010 and an example of another left over sign that should have been replaced or removed.
Rules for riding
Whether you're on a bus or a train, follow these basic rules to help make everyone's ride on Sound Transit services enjoyable and safe
Basic rules for bus and train passengers
Animals: Service animals are allowed on Sound Transit buses and trains. Pets may ride if they are carried in small containers.
Pay the correct fare on the bus; on platforms and trains, have fare ready for fare inspectors.
Hold personal items, store in overhead rack or under the seat.
Respect the privacy of other passengers.
Use audio/video equipment only with headphones.
Carry food and drinks in closed containers.
Shirts and shoes must be worn at all times.
Do not lie down or place feet on seats.
Do not interfere with operator/conductor while operating the vehicle.
Do not harass other riders.
Do not engage in loud or unruly behavior.
No eating.
No smoking.
No littering.
No alcohol consumption.
No hazardous, explosive or corrosive materials.
No unlawful weapons or firearms.
No soliciting.
No loitering.
Do not leave bags unattended.
Whether you're on a bus or a train, follow these basic rules to help make everyone's ride on Sound Transit services enjoyable and safe
Basic rules for bus and train passengers
Animals: Service animals are allowed on Sound Transit buses and trains. Pets may ride if they are carried in small containers.
Pay the correct fare on the bus; on platforms and trains, have fare ready for fare inspectors.
Hold personal items, store in overhead rack or under the seat.
Respect the privacy of other passengers.
Use audio/video equipment only with headphones.
Carry food and drinks in closed containers.
Shirts and shoes must be worn at all times.
Do not lie down or place feet on seats.
Do not interfere with operator/conductor while operating the vehicle.
Do not harass other riders.
Do not engage in loud or unruly behavior.
No eating.
No smoking.
No littering.
No alcohol consumption.
No hazardous, explosive or corrosive materials.
No unlawful weapons or firearms.
No soliciting.
No loitering.
Do not leave bags unattended.
Anyone here carrying an unlawful weapon or firearms?
Didn't think so. :lol:It is possible they have already dealt with this issue as this thread began in 2010 and an example of another left over sign that should have been replaced or removed.