UOC meet San Pedro Jan. 3rd

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Mike Hunt wrote:

Army wrote:

And here's the oh-so-dangerous crew!

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OMG who ARE those nutjobs!? :shock:

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a bunch of crazy sombitches

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Sons of Liberty wrote:

Great video! Great cross-examination!

I'm gonna double my pledge for the "war chest"!

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Yes! Great to "get them talking".

They should remember that "anything they say can and will be used against them". I doubt they have any clue as to how well you turned the tables on them.

Mike Hunt's atty. needs this be sure to see this to evaluate if there is any admission of a "pattern of behavior" to violate citizens' rights.

Seems to me that there may be, but hey, IANAL.

Boy does LAPD need a lot of work on the "No firearms exception" rulings (J.L. v. Florida and Ubiles v. U.S.?) re the 4th amendment. A MWAG gun call, with no other evidence of crime committed or about to be committed, does not constitute RAS for a detention or PC for a search. The "we don't know who you are" is nothing short of B.S. and has no legal standing.

"Hey, there is a guy walking in the park. We don't know who he is. He could be a felon. We better go cuff him for our safety until we know he is OK". NOT!

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4armed Architect wrote:

Sons of Liberty wrote:

Great video! Great cross-examination!

I'm gonna double my pledge for the "war chest"!

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Yes! Great to "get them talking".

They should remember that "anything they say can and will be used against them". I doubt they have any clue as to how well you turned the tables on them.

Mike Hunt's atty. needs this be sure to see this to evaluate if there is any admission of a "pattern of behavior" to violate citizens' rights.

Seems to me that there may be, but hey, IANAL.

Boy does LAPD need a lot of work on the "No firearms exception" rulings (J.L. v. Florida and Ubiles v. U.S.?) re the 4th amendment. A MWAG gun call, with no other evidence of crime committed or about to be committed, does not constitute RAS for a detention or PC for a search. The "we don't know who you are" is nothing short of B.S. and has no legal standing.

"Hey, there is a guy walking in the park. We don't know who he is. He could be a felon. We better go cuff him for our safety until we know he is OK". NOT!

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Did I or did I not, hear the Sarge say he wanted to check if the UOC'ers were felons, had warrantsor were on probation? Hey Sarge, "think R.A.S."

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4armed Architect wrote:

Mike Hunt's atty. needs this be sure to see this to evaluate if there is any admission of a "pattern of behavior" to violate citizens' rights.

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The SP video will have NO bearing on Mike's 12025 case IF it even gets filed.

But whatthe SPmet up sure did do is bring a lot more attention to Mike's case in the DAs office and LAPD circleswhich is NOT what he needed.:banghead:

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cato wrote:

4armed Architect wrote:

Mike Hunt's atty. needs this be sure to see this to evaluate if there is any admission of a "pattern of behavior" to violate citizens' rights.

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The SP video will have NO bearing on Mike's 12025 case IF it even gets filed.

But whatthe SPmet up sure did do is bring a lot more attention to Mike's case in the DAs office and LAPD circleswhich is NOT what he needed.:banghead:

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Purely having a competent lawyer is enough for them to go balls-to-the-wall plus afterburner in their traitorous and disbarment-level persecution. Just ask Jason Davis, Esq. or read the story posted on CGN.

By all your reasoning, I gather that none of us should ever do anything because it will bring unwanted government attention... i.e. we might as well eat our lead at incredibly high velocity and deny them the chance.

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cato wrote:

Sons of Liberty wrote:

Cato, I don't know where to start.

You're obviously the advertisement executive for CGF here on this discussion board.

It's easy to kick a man when he's down. But, those you are kicking are honestly trying to obey the California laws. These people are law-abiding citizens being illegally detained and sent to jail because the LAPD does not respect the laws as they have been written (however, infringing upon the 2A they may be). Your condescending tone is not making you nor CGF any friends!

There were no laws to challenge! Each person was abiding by the laws. What we protest is how these California laws are not being respected by LEAs.

What is so hard to understand about that!

Let's see a "fight" with some "hands-on" passion and not just behind lawyers in a corrupt court system!

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Get a good 4th A. attorney and do something about it (2nd A doesn't exist legally until McDonald is won). But Mike can't because he is now a criminal defendant in that "corrupt system". Being behind the 8 ball is not the best strategic way tovindicate our rights. Andencouraging the other side to play a trump card (CA Legislature) when we can not defend against their actions (yet) is Kamikaze tactics.

My only interest here is the full and functional exercise of RKBA (Vermont style). I will be fighting for that my entire lifetime.

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Mike was arrested for a concealed weapons charge, when the weapon was NOT concealed. That has nothing to do with the 2A or 4A....its a bogus charge for something he was NOT doing. It can be defended by a lawyer, no need to drag any sort of 2A or 4A argument into it. CA PC defines a weapon carried openly in a belt holster is not concealed per that section. There is a defense right there.

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N6ATF wrote:

By all your reasoning, I gather that none of us should ever do anything because it will bring unwanted government attention... i.e. we might as well eat our lead at incredibly high velocity and deny them the chance.

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You are over the top and defeat any actual logic in you arguments with those statements. Cool your heels for 5 months only. That is all the founding CA members here are asking.

You have no idea ofmy level or activism accomplished or planned. Stop playing checkers and join the chess match in progress. The RKBA deserves that at least.

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Hey Cato are you going to volunteer to follow my family and me around and jump between us and any potential harm? Didn't think so.

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People stop attacking cato. You can disagree with the man, but show a little respect while doing so. Without him, there would be no open carry movement in CA right now.

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chewy352 wrote:

Hey Cato are you going to volunteer to follow my family and me around and jump between us and any potential harm? Didn't think so.

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Yes, stopping UOC for only 5 monthsand adopting LUCC requires a little personal sacrifice.

I hope that is something we are all willing to do to preserve OC for post incorporation actions. IF we loose it now in the next 5 months we may not get it back. Happy concealed carrying is not what I want to be saying in the future.

One LUCC benefit is thatyou can easily pass through school zones (until struck down)with greatly reduced risk of getting a 10 year firearmprohibition - howwould you defend your family then? With pepper spray?. Calling911 dial a prayer?



Mudcamper, thanks for the back But I'dprefertheyspeak their minds. It gives me a chance to dialogue. My skin is thick thanks to a particular employment I have and playground experiences from long ago.



The chair is against the wall. The chair is against the wall. Jaques has a long mustache. Jaques has a long mustache.

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I see that waiting to UOC until some court decisions have been made, as being the best logic overall. Single person UOC especially in places like large malls can be antagonistic to some of the Mommy's hauling "junior" around to go shopping. However I also understand those that want to press on and do this and not wait for the possibility (and that is all it is) of a favorable court ruling. Attacking Cato for his vision makes no sense. He has his opinion, just like the rest of us. We are all free to take our own course of action. You must not forget that therse laws came into effect as a knee jerk reaction to various incidents involving guns. The legislator did not want the Black Panthers coming back and visiting them again, so they started passing laws. How much of a stretch is it to think they won't pass more restrictive gun laws if a incident occurs at some mall, hospital, movie theater, book store,etc. Cato and CGF is just looking beyond their nose at the big overall picture.

I have chosen to wait and see how the chips fall. I don't want the unnecessary LEO hassle right now. I have only meet one other poster here face to face, but you will see my hard efforts on his behalf utilized soon enough. I just can't explain this right now. However I am up to come armed to another Mike Hunt rally if the charges are not dropped.I think the other coffee meet was a little short on time and planning and should have waited to see if any files were charged against him. Some things should not be let go, and this is one of them, but civil protest might only harden the DA/City Attorney's resolve to pursue a crappy politically motivated case against him.

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camsoup wrote:

cato wrote:

Sons of Liberty wrote:

Cato, I don't know where to start.

You're obviously the advertisement executive for CGF here on this discussion board.

It's easy to kick a man when he's down. But, those you are kicking are honestly trying to obey the California laws. These people are law-abiding citizens being illegally detained and sent to jail because the LAPD does not respect the laws as they have been written (however, infringing upon the 2A they may be). Your condescending tone is not making you nor CGF any friends!

There were no laws to challenge! Each person was abiding by the laws. What we protest is how these California laws are not being respected by LEAs.

What is so hard to understand about that!

Let's see a "fight" with some "hands-on" passion and not just behind lawyers in a corrupt court system!

Click to expand...

Get a good 4th A. attorney and do something about it (2nd A doesn't exist legally until McDonald is won). But Mike can't because he is now a criminal defendant in that "corrupt system". Being behind the 8 ball is not the best strategic way tovindicate our rights. Andencouraging the other side to play a trump card (CA Legislature) when we can not defend against their actions (yet) is Kamikaze tactics.

My only interest here is the full and functional exercise of RKBA (Vermont style). I will be fighting for that my entire lifetime.

Click to expand...

Mike was arrested for a concealed weapons charge, when the weapon was NOT concealed. That has nothing to do with the 2A or 4A....its a bogus charge for something he was NOT doing. It can be defended by a lawyer, no need to drag any sort of 2A or 4A argument into it. CA PC defines a weapon carried openly in a belt holster is not concealed per that section. There is a defense right there.

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Exactly... it's all about what people are NOT doing. Not concealed carrying=you get charged with concealed carry. Continuing to not concealed carry=make the government persecute you even more?

This case is facially invalid and should be bitchslapped out of the pretrial (probable cause) hearing, assuming they don't go grand jury.

ACTUALLY concealed carrying, unloaded, locked... you'll get searched by LAPD anyway because of their pattern or practice of violating the 4A, and be charged with concealed carry. Then CGF will defend you according to Gene if everything else is kosher.

That 4A defenses will be mounted to unsettled law (LUCC & its destination requirements and inspection of firearms for loaded status no matter if they're locked up or not), but not settled law (UOC & its forced ID and serial number running)...

Illogical pot, meet kettle.

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I think I agree with Cato on this one. To me the whole UOC thing is more of a political statement then a self protection thing. It seems that there is a lot in flux right now, and waiting to hear what the SCOTUS has to say about McDonald seems like a reasonable course of action at this point.

There are some good threads on CalGuns about what direction they are looking at after McDonald, and I think that seems reasonable.

Also, if you look at the DC thread, there is a case pending now that is directed at the DC ban on carrying in public, it will be quite interesting to see where that goes.

There are a lot of things going on right now, some in the background, some not so much. I think the high profile incidents could have a negative effect.

How will we feel if after McDonald it is determined that we have a right to bear arms, but only concealed, because there was some incident with UOC that caused the legislator to enact some law banning Open Carry. Contrast that with within a year being able to LOC. Seems to be worth the wait to see how this shakes out.

I know this is not a popular opinion here, and people will do what they will do.

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You all are brave souls and I praise you.

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Seriously? Do any of you think that by being antagonistic towards one of the tips of the spear of the OC movement in CA is going to help?

I understand a lot of us want our rights, and want them now.

That is no reason to disregard and disrespect one of the guys on our side.

Also, if we're going to partake in UOC events/demonstrations, let's plan a little better for something that results in a more positive response. The HTB meetup was excellent, Redlands Open Market was good, Laguna rocked (I missed that one), Temecula will be great.

I understand the desire to protest but one of the reasons I didnt go to this meetup was because I knew this was a knee-jerk reaction to what happened to Mike Hunt. I will try to help financially but this meetup was more a step back or sideways. I waited until after all was said and done to present my opinion because honestly, I hoped for the best end result. If this can further lead into a positive news story, then it was a neutral impact meetup.

chewy352 wrote:

Hey Cato are you going to volunteer to follow my family and me around and jump between us and any potential harm? Didn't think so.

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I think that the more avid UOC faction could still carry UOC just at least downplay any media or overt actions while the matters are addressed in law. Stay legal, stay safe.. just don't go youtube (example) while the matter is a bit sensitive.

I know despite some of the disagreements here that we all would like to see the same things happen. Its just that despite the fact that it has been a lot of the CC guys who have been very instrumental in driving the cause forward its the relatively new wave of UOCers (Cali) and LOCers (ex; Oregon) who might sometimes feel constrained by the need for patience. There has developed a fresh interest in self defense and weapons carrying in recent history and with it has come a lot of enthusiasm and energy which is great but sometimes hard to watch when we have to 'dance' with the politicians.

Folks like Cato and others have done a LOT of work prior to myself and others showing up on the scene and it would be good to keep in mind they know the game and if we all work together as much as possible, maybe sanity will be restored.

I know Cato and other seasoned members as well as the CGF guys are aware of some of the negative attitudes we OCers get from the more adamant CC crowd can get nerve wracking at times. We just need to realize the variety of angles involved and try our best to keep this ship moving in the right direction.

DESPITE the anti factions in this country and the heavy progressive contingent, I have felt more enthusiastic about things in the last couple of years than I had in a while..
Keep up the good work guys.

Rev. Jim

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JBURGII wrote:

I have felt more enthusiastic about things in the last couple of years than I had in a while..

Rev. Jim

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Thanks Rev! Me too! Never thought I see what has come to pass in CA these last few years.

Gura may well have saved the Republic. Here's to seeing P or I incorporation and the Bill of Rights vindicated!!!

Things are looking up generally! Front sight everyone. Front sight! FTW!

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tekshogun wrote:

You all are brave souls and I praise you.

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We've had a few casualties and will have some more apparently. We'll put their realnames on a monument some day!

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cato wrote:

tekshogun wrote:

You all are brave souls and I praise you.

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We've had a few casualties and will have some more apparently. We'll put their realnames on a monument some day!

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haha hopefully someday we will all look back at this and laugh at how crazy things were

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chewy352 wrote:

Hey Cato are you going to volunteer to follow my family and me around and jump between us and any potential harm? Didn't think so.

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The question stands, post-incorporation (and I would argue RIGHT NOW, as the 4A is incorporated and yet violated with impunity by state agents anyway). We need LEOs to back law-abiding citizens up and arrest their criminal brethren who are constantly violating TITLE 18, U.S.C., SECTION 242 & 241. And federal prosecutors across the U.S. to bring these criminals hiding behind badges to justice.