My Firearm saved me.

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I was Visiting my sister who had just moved to central hillside in duluth with her boyfriend, a place they had no business being in. A crappy area known for questionable people. Late at night little after 9pm i got there from work. I noticed four individuals when i pulled in the lot and shut my car off i just had that feeling about them and racked a round before getting out. i walked to the door and called my sister to come let me in and she said she'd be down in a min she was pulling something out of the oven. Shortly after i hear a guy hollar at me "he man why dont you come talk to us?" I replyed nah, man im alright and started looking around the lot and spotted the three starting to widen out as they approached me and noticed two of them had golf clubs. At which point i told them to stop where they are and to walk away. but they kept coming sayin how they just wanted to talk to me and not to be disrespectful, i already was at the door with my back to it, with a 20ft wall to myleftand a 20ft drop off to my right. at this point they were too close for comfort less than 20yds and i unsnapped and drew my weapon and put the laser on the chest of the one who seemed to be the"leader" of the group and told him very harshly to drop there weapons and back the " " off or will defend myself. They stopped dead in there tracks turned dropped there clubs and ran. I made the decision in my head that i would defend myself, i'll admit that i was shaky as hell after words and kinda sick. I am how ever glad that it didnt come down to someone losing there life. I have a family now and the situation has changed. My son needs me and i will be the one going home to him and my fiancee.

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Wow, I didn't know Duluth was that bad.:what:

Are you sure they had gulf clubsand not hokey sticks?:lol: (Sorry no laughing matter)

Glad tohear you are alright.:celebrate


Why did you have to rack one in the chamber befor getting out of your car is it becauseofMin Law?

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Ha ha Hockey sticks, Duluth is really not that horrible of a place and i never want to make it seem that way. But where my sister lived was a crappy area surrounded by low income housing. Same apartments some guy stole a Uhaul and trashed the lot including my sisters her husbands and my car, and one street up the block a Coworkers son was murdered, very sad.

Where i work it would be extremely unsafe have a loaded firearm . i work withviolent mentally ill people,I leave my firearm in the lock boxbolted to the floor of mycar and the magazine locked in my glove compartment and the ammo in the trunk. Otherwise i always have my firearm loaded.

MN we can carry loaded and ready.

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Well done bro. Good restraint, given you were literally backed into a corner and they were armed.

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great story. because nothing happend (to you). i somehow beleive those thugs weren't going to invite you to a golf outing.

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mrf0xbody wrote:

I was Visiting my sister who had just moved to central hillside in duluth with her boyfriend, a place they had no business being in. A crappy area known for questionable people. Late at night little after 9pm i got there from work.  I noticed four individuals when i pulled in the lot and shut my car off i just had that feeling about them and racked a round before getting out. i walked to the door and called my sister to come let me in and she said she'd be down in a min she was pulling something out of the oven. Shortly after i hear a guy hollar at me "he man why dont you come talk to us?" I replyed nah, man im alright and started looking around the lot and spotted the three starting to widen out as they approached me and noticed two of them had golf clubs. At which point i told them to stop where they are and to walk away. but they kept coming sayin how they just wanted to talk to me and not to be disrespectful, i already was at the door with my back to it, with a 20ft wall to my left and a 20ft drop off to my right. at this point they were too close for comfort less than 20yds and i unsnapped and drew my weapon and put the laser on the chest of the one who seemed to be the"leader" of the group and told him very harshly to drop there weapons and back the " " off or will defend myself. They stopped dead in there tracks turned dropped there clubs and ran. I made the decision in my head that i would defend myself, i'll admit that i was shaky as hell after words and kinda sick. I am how ever glad that it didnt come down to someone losing there life. I have a family now and the situation has changed. My son needs me and i will be the one going home to him and my fiancee.

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Glad you are ok and you were able to send them on their way. I hope you don't have any visits from them again when you visit your sister as I take it they are probably from that area of town. Remain armed and remain vigilant.

And why the golf clubs? You think they suspected you of adultery?

To Hell With Not Being Armed (Edited from Tell to To, thanks Ops Marine)

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Sounds like you handled it well. There are certain criteria I look for as well when determining anything suspicious and it sounds like you operated along the same lines.

Rule 1: Don't talk to strangers. Yes they say it to children but it applies to adults. You are heading to a residence with a purpose and minding your own business. Why would you want to interact with people you don't know? Anyone loitering around with nothing to do that quickly wants to interact with a stranger (you) is at best a sad lonely person with an empty life and at worst a criminal intent on doing harm. I don't interact with strangers unless necessary. Beyond the friendly nod or "Hi" that is it. If they have a reason for getting your attention they should state it clearly (i.e. "Our car battery is dead. Do you have jumper cables you could help us out with?"). If they don't have a legitimate purpose to interact with you, raise a red flag immediately (go to condition orange).

Rule 2: Be wary of anyone openly carrying weapons. Just because I OC doesn't mean I trust everyone else that does. This also applies to golf clubs. That is extremely suspicious even moreso than someone carrying a gun. No normal person walks around with a golf club in his hand. If they are going to a golf course, they would have a set of clubs in a golfer's bag. I'm not aware of people golfing late at night either. I will err on the side of defending myself first and answering questions later. You therefore did a great thing by ordering them to stop and retreat before they got close. If I feel threatened, I will yell, "Stop and retreat. Do not come within 10 feet of me or I will defend myself." If the person has a legitimate purpose, they will apologize and simply retreat. If they advance, go to condition red and the battle is on. At this point, drawing is absolutely necessary.

Rule 3: If they don't stop, shoot. This is common sense but most of us don't want to pull a trigger if we don't have to. Regardless, anyone who continues to approach me witha golf club or other deadly weapon in his hands after I have told him to stop and retreat and even drawn is getting shot. It doesn't matter if they are outside of the 10 feet I told them. Most jurisdictions would likely rule it self-defense. You have a purpose for being there and are minding your own business. These characters do NOT have a purpose to be there, are likely trespassing, and clearly threatening with a deadly weapon. Depending on the proximity, I may not give a warning. If a maniac is screaming at me and advancing rapidly with a baseball bat or similar item, I will simply start shooting. Again, unless I see a mitt, a baseball, and some children and it looks like a little league afternoon, he is not going to play baseball. I also use a similar procedure even when the suspect is not visibly armed. If some idiot says, "I'm going to F*** you up!" and doesn't retreat he will get a face full of pepper spray and perhaps even a taser cartridge.

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yeah, i did assess the situation, determined that i had no way out, decided that i was probably gonna get messed up, and drew. Thats my system. Gladly my sister moved after the uhaul incedent and got married and now lives in west virginia.

yeah, golf at 9pm in the ghetto? um i dont think so. Im horrible at golf anyways!

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Protector84,

FBI did a study... called the Tueller (sp) drill....

Bad Guy from 20 feet has a 50% chance of putting his knife into the chest of a trained officer BEFORE THE OFFICER CAN DRAW, AIM, and FIRE HIS WEAPON!

Why would you let them get to within 10 feet?:what:

If it is a single (that I've identified) BG then 25 feet is the closest he comes, with more than one the distance goes up from there!

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JoeSparky wrote:

Protector84,

FBI did a study... called the Tueller (sp) drill....

Bad Guy from 20 feet has a 50% chance of putting his knife into the chest of a trained officer BEFORE THE OFFICER CAN DRAW, AIM, and FIRE HIS WEAPON!

Why would you let them get to within 10 feet?:what:

If it is a single (that I've identified) BG then 25 feet is the closest he comes, with more than one the distance goes up from there!

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Your spelling is correct. That study was done back in the early 80's and was first published in SWAT magazine. Here is a link to that article.

http://www.theppsc.org/Staff_Views/Tueller/How.Close.htm

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You acted reasonably.

Hopefully those individuals will go rethink their career choice now.



-Richard-

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My only question is why did you not already have a round chambered?

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Good job. But have a couple questions:

1. Did you call the police afterwards? If not, you should have.

2. You said you "racked a round" before getting out of the car. Do you normally carry without a round in the chamber? If so, why?

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Ohio Patriot wrote:

Good job. But have a couple questions:

1. Did you call the police afterwwards? If not, you should have.

2. You said you "racked a round" before getting out of the car. Do you normally carry without a round in the chamber? If so, why?

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I don't feel the police are always needed. i am pro LEO but i feel they do not have the 24 hour protection we need. criminals need to fear good citizens not LEOs
Devery

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manicdevery wrote:

Ohio Patriot wrote:

Good job. But have a couple questions:

1. Did you call the police afterwwards? If not, you should have.

2. You said you "racked a round" before getting out of the car. Do you normally carry without a round in the chamber? If so, why?

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I don't feel the police are always needed. i am pro LEO but i feel they do not have the 24 hour protection we need. criminals need to fear good citizens not LEOs
Devery

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Regardless, the police tend to believe whoever calls them first. If one of the dirtbags called 911 and said "There's a crazy guy pointing a gun and shouting racial slurs, I think he's gonna shoot up the neighborhood!", chances are that you would be the one going for a ride downtown.

Your call of "There were guys threatening me with golf clubs and they left when I drew my weapon!", would end up with the cops asking some questions at the most. It could be the report that provides additional information that puts these guys away if it happens again and someone get killed.

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You did the right thing, at least it worked out for you. I would have not let them get that close.

BTW, MN is a Castle Protection state and if you feel you are bodily threatened you can use deadly force, i.e MN Statute states:

609.065 JUSTIFIABLE TAKING OF LIFE.
The intentional taking of the life of another is not authorized by section 609.06, except when
necessary in resisting or preventing an offense which the actor reasonably believes exposes the
actor or another to great bodily harm or death, or preventing the commission of a felony in
the actor's place of abode.

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Decoligny wrote:

manicdevery wrote:

Ohio Patriot wrote:

Good job. But have a couple questions:

1. Did you call the police afterwwards? If not, you should have.

2. You said you "racked a round" before getting out of the car. Do you normally carry without a round in the chamber? If so, why?

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I don't feel the police are always needed. i am pro LEO but i feel they do not have the 24 hour protection we need. criminals need to fear good citizens not LEOs
Devery

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Regardless, the police tend to believe whoever calls them first. If one of the dirtbags called 911 and said "There's a crazy guy pointing a gun and shouting racial slurs, I think he's gonna shoot up the neighborhood!", chances are that you would be the one going for a ride downtown.

Your call of "There were guys threatening me with golf clubs and they left when I drew my weapon!", would end up with the cops asking some questions at the most. It could be the report that provides additional information that puts these guys away if it happens again and someone get killed.

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Yes. It is called being the 'victim complainant." It covers your ass.

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I'm really getting sick and tired of people who don't know how to read. If you can't read, then don't post because you are wasting people's time forcing them to repeat themselves endlessly.

JoeSparky:

Why would you let them get to within 10 feet?

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This is what I said:

If I feel threatened, I will yell, "Stop and retreat. Do not come within 10 feet of me or I will defend myself."

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Further down in the same post I said this:

Regardless, anyone who continues to approach me witha golf club or other deadly weapon in his hands after I have told him to stop and retreat and even drawn is getting shot. It doesn't matter if they are outside of the 10 feet I told them.

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No where did I say I was letting someone get that close. It is a command I will issue and a guideline. If the person is already close to begin with, I will back away and create distance as needed. I could say "Don't come any closer" but I prefer the specific nature of the request "Don't come within 10 feet." If there are witnesses in the area, it would sure sound like I feel threatened if I state "10 feet" because anyone that close after being ordered not to is clearly threatening. I would never let someone get that close if I could help it to begin with but the terms or verbiage sound better to me by saying it that way. Anyone with half a brain intent on doing harm would not come any closer even if he was say 20 feet away or more.Making such a statement doesn't mean I consent to the suspect getting a tape measure and measuring off ten feet from me. The statement is something that simply looks good in court. If an attacker is 30 feet away and I yell, "I feel threatened and I will defend myself. Don't come within 10 feet of me" and yet the attacker comes within 20 feet with a baseball bat and I open fire, it can easily proven that the criminal was intent on getting within that range let alone doing me harm. Enough said.

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protector84,

Good point, most of the time, it will come down to what you can testify to in court.

When you command them to stop and not come within 10 feet of you, you are putting the choice in their hand ... if they continue to advance, it is a clear act (intent)in furtherance of committing a crime as it was stated in my PI/SG class.

Presence

Voice command

Open hand

Chemical weapon

Electronic weapon

Impact weapon

Deadly force

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Decoligny wrote:

manicdevery wrote:

Ohio Patriot wrote:

Good job. But have a couple questions:

1. Did you call the police afterwwards? If not, you should have.

2. You said you "racked a round" before getting out of the car. Do you normally carry without a round in the chamber? If so, why?

Click to expand...

I don't feel the police are always needed. i am pro LEO but i feel they do not have the 24 hour protection we need. criminals need to fear good citizens not LEOs
Devery

Click to expand...

Regardless, the police tend to believe whoever calls them first. If one of the dirtbags called 911 and said "There's a crazy guy pointing a gun and shouting racial slurs, I think he's gonna shoot up the neighborhood!", chances are that you would be the one going for a ride downtown.

Your call of "There were guys threatening me with golf clubs and they left when I drew my weapon!", would end up with the cops asking some questions at the most. It could be the report that provides additional information that puts these guys away if it happens again and someone get killed.

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+1 great point. They could have easily arrested you for brandishing/assault with 4 guys saying you randomly pointed a gun at them (describing the laser of course, something they wouldn't know unless you pointed at them). The cops would get there.. say "so why didn't you call the cops?? wrong answer... under arrest".



Great story though, hopefully saved someones life because of that in the future.