OC in Walla Walla Valley

BigDave · Jul 26, 2011

sudden valley gunner said:
Good job Chris. We can't win them all.

I have heard this and even thought this at one time, but hence have been thinking that if asked to conceal by the owner of a private business it doesn't matter whether you have a cpl or not. Now I would more than likely just leave feeling the request is ridiculous and how does 2 mil of cloth suddenly cure peoples hoplophobia?

"if asked to conceal by the owner of a private business it doesn't matter whether you have a cpl or not."

And you reached this conclusion how? Elaborate Please.

RCW 9.41.050 Carrying firearms.
(1)(a) Except in the person's place of abode or fixed place of business, a person shall not carry a pistol concealed on his or her person without a license to carry a concealed pistol.

The way I read this, is the persons place of abode or the persons place of business. I am not seeing a conntection of the owner being able to give lawful authority to carry a concealed concealed weapon on their property other then not telling them to leave or no weapons allowed.

amzbrady · Jul 27, 2011

sudden valley gunner said:
Good job Chris. We can't win them all.

I have heard this and even thought this at one time, but hence have been thinking that if asked to conceal by the owner of a private business it doesn't matter whether you have a cpl or not. Now I would more than likely just leave feeling the request is ridiculous and how does 2 mil of cloth suddenly cure peoples hoplophobia?

What you dont know cant hurt you. YAY. :banana:

sudden valley gunner · Jul 27, 2011

BigDave said:
"if asked to conceal by the owner of a private business it doesn't matter whether you have a cpl or not."

And you reached this conclusion how? Elaborate Please.

The way I read this, is the persons place of abode or the persons place of business. I am not seeing a conntection of the owner being able to give lawful authority to carry a concealed concealed weapon on their property other then not telling them to leave or no weapons allowed.

Posted by M1gunr in the OC in the barber shop thread, but something I had been thinking about..

OK, I'll bite....
The legal answer from RCW 9.41.050
(1)(a) Except in the person's place of abode or fixed place of business, a person shall not carry a pistol concealed on his or her person without a license to carry a concealed pistol.

You walked in Open Carrying and when you leave you will be OCing. Common sense says that unless a bunch of LEOs come through the door, you got nothing to worry about with or without a CPL.

I really don't feel the state has the authority to tell people what kind of behavior is allowed on their private property. I know many authoritarians/statist view it differently, but if you gave someone permission to conceal at your house who is the state to say no ?

1245A Defender · Jul 27, 2011

well,,,

thought about this law-around a lot..
sooo,,, mi casa you casa!
i cant give permission to violate state law, but
can i allow you to enjoy the state law allowed in my house?

sudden valley gunner · Jul 27, 2011

1245A Defender said:
thought about this law-around a lot..
sooo,,, mi casa you casa!
i cant give permission to violate state law, but
can i allow you to enjoy the state law allowed in my house?

And that is the question my friend. I personally feel the state has no business in our private affairs.

BigDave · Jul 27, 2011

1245A Defender said:
thought about this law-around a lot..
sooo,,, mi casa you casa!
i cant give permission to violate state law, but
can i allow you to enjoy the state law allowed in my house?

Bullseye 1245A Defender.

sudden valley gunner said:
And that is the question my friend. I personally feel the state has no business in our private affairs.

SVG that was not a question, it is a statement of fact. You can have all the personal beliefs you want but when stating "if asked to conceal by the owner of a private business it doesn't matter whether you have a cpl or not." It does matter as it is in,

RCW 9.41.050 Carrying Firearms (1)(a) Except in the person's place of abode or fixed place of business, a person shall not carry a pistol concealed on his or her person without a license to carry a concealed pistol. (note exception to persons place of abode or a persons place of business)

This advice could place some into jeopardy by exercising you belief of it being okay to conceal your weapon in a business, even if told by the owner or personal responsible.

Several times on this forum it has been stated that carrying sterile and going about your business and if asked to cover up the natural response would be, I would be breaking the law if I did!

sudden valley gunner · Jul 27, 2011

Um you obviously missed the question mark at the end of defenders comments.

I know you are statist and believe all laws are to be followed whether they are constitutional or not. I feel unconstitutional laws are null and void. I guess when the barber throws the apron over us we are breaking the law and he is an accomplice. Damn people need to be punished even though, by Blackstone founding no crime was committed.

BigDave · Jul 27, 2011

sudden valley gunner said:
Um you obviously missed the question mark at the end of defenders comments.

I know you are statist and believe all laws are to be followed whether they are constitutional or not. I feel unconstitutional laws are null and void. I guess when the barber throws the apron over us we are breaking the law and he is an accomplice. Damn people need to be punished even though, by Blackstone founding no crime was committed.

LOL pick and choose what laws you will or will not acknowledge, if one believes it is unconstitutional then work toward repealing it.
In this thread we are discussing your statement of "if asked to conceal by the owner of a private business it doesn't matter whether you have a cpl or not." is a false statement.

Did You or I make this law, no. Am I advocating to ignore it, NOPE but you are that could result in someone else's expense.

I cannot nor will I try to speak for another, but in Defenders post "i cant give permission to violate state law, but
can i allow you to enjoy the state law allowed in my house?" is a statement of fact, do you really think he or someone else feel he was waiting for an answer? (just like this question mark do you really think I am waiting for you to answer? oh did it again!

)

Yes we know you have had several runs ins with the law concerning your personal and professional life but Like it or not SVG it is the law.

sudden valley gunner · Jul 27, 2011

BigDave said:
LOL pick and choose what laws you will or will not acknowledge, if one believes it is unconstitutional then work toward repealing it.
In this thread we are discussing your statement of "if asked to conceal by the owner of a private business it doesn't matter whether you have a cpl or not." is a false statement.

Did You or I make this law, no. Am I advocating to ignore it, NOPE but you are that could result in someone else's expense.

I cannot nor will I try to speak for another, but in Defenders post "i cant give permission to violate state law, but
can i allow you to enjoy the state law allowed in my house?" is a statement of fact, do you really think he or someone else feel he was waiting for an answer? (just like this question mark do you really think I am waiting for you to answer? oh did it again! )

Yes we know you have had several runs ins with the law concerning your personal and professional life but Like it or not SVG it is the law.

When did I advocate to ignore it? I was discussing its legality. And I wasn't the only one too do it either.

Your last statement has nothing to do with this, topic? I notice that folks who disagree with my constitutionalist view love to use this demagoguery and bring it up. Unfortunately for you, you don't know what you are talking about on the subject except what I have already personally volunteered here.
Or are you a creepy stalker type guy? Drivers license issues and OC incidents about the only problems I have had. Can't think of what "professional" issues may be talking about.

And no we shouldn't have to lobby and work toward removing unconstitutional they are null and void. I guess if they passed a law banning all firearms next week you would immediately turn your in? And no I don't advocate breaking the laws only use my first amendment right to talk about how we shouldn't have to follow them.

Matters not whether it was a rhetorical question or not it was still a question......

And Bob is a friend of mind whether he agrees with me or not I don't think he minded my response to his post at all.....

gogodawgs · Jul 27, 2011

Enforcing a misdemeanor....

Dave,

Question as to expanding the legality of enforcement of this idea. I am at SVG's home and carrying concealed because he says it is ok to do so, even though I have no CPL (theoretically). How can this be enforced? Doesn't a misdemeanor have to occur in the officer's presence to receive a citation? How would the officer justify being in SVG's place of abode, absent invitation or a crime requiring a warrant?

While I understand the letter of the law as you explain it, I am at a loss to discover how .270 could be enforced in the situation of a private home.

Jim675 · Jul 27, 2011

I don't see anyone disputing the RCW's existence, what it says, or what it means. I saw doubt that it is legally enforceable (if judged unconstitutional) and doubt that it is practically enforceable (who invites police to inspect the guests they just invited to conceal?).

Perhaps we could return to the Wallaseses.

ETA: Shoulda hit refresh, gogodawgs beat me to it.

BigDave · Jul 27, 2011

The likelihood of being cited just sitting or visiting someones home is slight, unless of course an unfortunate incident occurs, which does happen and if found with a concealed weapon and not having a permit could land you in trouble with a zealous prosecutor.

We are discussing the issue of SVG statement of being in a private business and conceal carrying with out a permit, the chances of being found out are even higher, as who is not to say a patron sees this and calls that famous MWAG.

I do not feel it would be in violation of RCW 9.41.270 but 050 instead.

RCW 9.41.050 Carrying firearms.

(1)(a) Except in the person's place of abode or fixed place of business, a person shall not carry a pistol concealed on his or her person without a license to carry a concealed pistol.

(b) Every licensee shall have his or her concealed pistol license in his or her immediate possession at all times that he or she is required by this section to have a concealed pistol license and shall display the same upon demand to any police officer or to any other person when and if required by law to do so. Any violation of this subsection (1)(b) shall be a class 1 civil infraction under chapter 7.80 RCW and shall be punished accordingly pursuant to chapter 7.80 RCW and the infraction rules for courts of limited jurisdiction.

(2)(a) A person shall not carry or place a loaded pistol in any vehicle unless the person has a license to carry a concealed pistol and: (i) The pistol is on the licensee's person, (ii) the licensee is within the vehicle at all times that the pistol is there, or (iii) the licensee is away from the vehicle and the pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.

(b) A violation of this subsection is a misdemeanor.

(3)(a) A person at least eighteen years of age who is in possession of an unloaded pistol shall not leave the unloaded pistol in a vehicle unless the unloaded pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.

(b) A violation of this subsection is a misdemeanor.

(4) Nothing in this section permits the possession of firearms illegal to possess under state or federal law.

[2003 c 53 § 28; 1997 c 200 § 1; 1996 c 295 § 4; 1994 sp.s. c 7 § 405; 1982 1st ex.s. c 47 § 3; 1961 c 124 § 4; 1935 c 172 § 5; RRS § 2516-5.]

1245A Defender · Jul 28, 2011

well,,,

it seems clear to me that a business, not your own, could not give permission to conceal.
i wonder though, what abode, really means?
if i invite you into my house, to visit, to eat, to relax, to treat my house like it was your own, to stay as long as you , or I, want...
it is Your abode for the duration of your stay.
we are sharing THE abode, and have the lawful right to conceal our guns IAW 9.41.050!

Mi casa su casa!

sudden valley gunner · Jul 28, 2011

Jim675 said:
I don't see anyone disputing the RCW's existence, what it says, or what it means. I saw doubt that it is legally enforceable (if judged unconstitutional) and doubt that it is practically enforceable (who invites police to inspect the guests they just invited to conceal?).

Perhaps we could return to the Wallaseses.

ETA: Shoulda hit refresh, gogodawgs beat me to it.

Thank you. Short and to the point but exactly my point.

BigDave · Jul 28, 2011

1245A Defender said:
it seems clear to me that a business, not your own, could not give permission to conceal.
i wonder though, what abode, really means?
if i invite you into my house, to visit, to eat, to relax, to treat my house like it was your own, to stay as long as you , or I, want...
it is Your abode for the duration of your stay.
we are sharing THE abode, and have the lawful right to conceal our guns IAW 9.41.050!

Mi casa su casa!

A few years back I did some research into finding the question as to what is the definition of abode in Washington State.
I was able to find two cases that it was addressed and was dealing with RCW 9.41.270.

THE STATE OF WASHINGTON, Respondent, v. JAMES ANDREW SMITH, Appellant.
AGID, J. - James Smith appeals his conviction for unlawful display of a weapon in violation of RCW 9.41.270(1). The issue is whether Smith's display of a weapon in his backyard falls within the "place of abode" exception to the statute. RCW 9.41.270(3)(a). Smith's actions do not fall within the exception because a backyard is not "in" a person's place of abode. We therefore affirm.

35 Wn. App. 96, STATE v. HALEY
Kevin M. Haley, a juvenile, appeals his conviction for intimidation with a deadly weapon under RCW 9 .41 .270(1). The dispositive question is whether Kevin's display of a BB gun while standing on a deck attached to his home was "in his place of abode" and came within an exception to this statute. RCW 9 .41 .270(3)(a). Kevin contends the deck was a part of his abode and the charge was therefore invalid. We reverse.

The ordinary meaning of abode is: one's home, place of dwelling, residence, and/ or domicile. Black's Law Dictionary 20 (4th rev. ed. 1968)

Hopefully this will help your understanding of abode, inviting someone in and just crossing the threshold as being their abode is likely stretching things a bit to far but may get traction if one was to spend the night.

amlevin · Jul 28, 2011

BigDave said:
A few years back I did some research into finding the question as to what is the definition of abode in Washington State.
I was able to find two cases that it was addressed and was dealing with RCW 9.41.270.

THE STATE OF WASHINGTON, Respondent, v. JAMES ANDREW SMITH, Appellant.
AGID, J. - James Smith appeals his conviction for unlawful display of a weapon in violation of RCW 9.41.270(1). The issue is whether Smith's display of a weapon in his backyard falls within the "place of abode" exception to the statute. RCW 9.41.270(3)(a). Smith's actions do not fall within the exception because a backyard is not "in" a person's place of abode. We therefore affirm.

35 Wn. App. 96, STATE v. HALEY
Kevin M. Haley, a juvenile, appeals his conviction for intimidation with a deadly weapon under RCW 9 .41 .270(1). The dispositive question is whether Kevin's display of a BB gun while standing on a deck attached to his home was "in his place of abode" and came within an exception to this statute. RCW 9 .41 .270(3)(a). Kevin contends the deck was a part of his abode and the charge was therefore invalid. We reverse.

The ordinary meaning of abode is: one's home, place of dwelling, residence, and/ or domicile. Black's Law Dictionary 20 (4th rev. ed. 1968)

Hopefully this will help your understanding of abode, inviting someone in and just crossing the threshold as being their abode is likely stretching things a bit to far but may get traction if one was to spend the night.

The 2011 Legislature also made some changes regarding the "abode" issue. Don't think it allows for one to "grant privilege" merely some changes of when/where deadly force was justified. Couldn't find it although I've seen it posted.

sudden valley gunner · Jul 30, 2011

amlevin said:
The 2011 Legislature also made some changes regarding the "abode" issue. Don't think it allows for one to "grant privilege" merely some changes of when/where deadly force was justified. Couldn't find it although I've seen it posted.

Which is an intrusion into ones property rights. But now a days there seems to be no more property rights any more. Who is the state to tell me what I can or can't do on my property if it isn't causing harm to anyone else.

When are we going to fight back for our rights?

OrangeIsTrouble · Jul 30, 2011

sudden valley gunner said:
Which is an intrusion into ones property rights. But now a days there seems to be no more property rights any more. Who is the state to tell me what I can or can't do on my property if it isn't causing harm to anyone else.

When are we going to fight back for our rights?

When something directly affects us and not just someone else.

sudden valley gunner · Jul 31, 2011

GreenIsFaster said:
When something directly affects us and not just someone else.

We need more young men like you. :lol:

Chris.R.Anderson · Mar 18, 2013

76 on 9th and Rose

The other day a friend was at the local 76 here in Walla Walla, and a patron called the police because he was OCing. Unfortunately the police actually responded to the report of a legal activity, rather than telling the reporter to only call for crimes. He didn't have time to deal with a long encounter, so after informing the police he knew quite well they were breaking the law he went ahead and gave them ID so he could go on his way. You know if dispatch and the PD's all knew and cared about the law, we wouldn't have anything to talk about on this forum!

CRA

P.S. as for the 76 itself, I know the staff to be OC friendly and 2A supporters. I've never had any trouble carrying in there.

OC in Walla Walla Valley

Opt-Out Members

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Opt-Out Members

Regular Member

Opt-Out Members

Regular Member

Campaign Veteran

Founder's Club Member

Opt-Out Members

Regular Member

Regular Member

Opt-Out Members

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member