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Thread: What not to say after a shooting

  1. #1
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    I just caught this in Thursday's paper. It happened in Detroit. Granted, the guy has style, but he should have kept his mouth shut. He should let Schwarzenegger and Eastwood handle the one-liners, and remember that this is real life, not a movie. Ditto for the moron criminal. They should split the Darwin Award for this one.

    Edit: I just saw that this was posted in the Michigan section, but maybe you don't check the Michigan section.

    Man fatally shoots burglary suspect

    http://www.miningjournal.net/page/co...1&nav=5014

    DETROIT (AP) — Authorities said a Detroit man whose home was broken into three times in the last week fatally shot an unarmed burglary suspect who verbally provoked him.

    Thirty-one-year-old Tigh Croff was arraigned Wednesday on charges of second-degree murder and using a firearm in a felony. A magistrate set his bond at $40,000 and scheduled a preliminary examination Jan. 11.

    Police said Croff began chasing two men he found in his backyard at 12:30 a.m. Monday.

    The Detroit television and radio stations reported one man escaped, but that 53-year-old Herbert Silas of Detroit turned around, raised his hands and said to the licensed gun-carrier: ‘‘What are you going to do, shoot me?’’

    Reports state Croff replied ‘‘absolutely’’ and fired.

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    *speechless*
    illegal ≠ immoral legal ≠ moral
    [SIZE=1]"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself. "Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent." - Thomas Jefferson
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    weeeeellll, we are talking Detroit, here ... massive unemployment, almost total breakdown of society, overworked, underpaid, high-risk LEO ... Obama's $$ getting hung up in the politician's pockets and not getting to the welfare mommas, so the drug addicts are having to supplement their drug money with B&E.

    Where's Acorn and SEIU when you need them? {heavy sarcasm}
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    Yikes. I would hate to have been robbed 3 times in the past week and have to be put in that situation, still I would have put a knee in the back of his neck and waited for the police.

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    That was just dumb.

    Good video of the story here:

    http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/dpp/news...rglary-suspect

    I doubt this guy will get off. It seems, if what was stated in the news is what happened, and if he in fact told the police that is what transpired (the conversatin between he and Silas, then it is a case of what you're not supposed to do. Most of us don't live in Texas.

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    Would someone really be that stupid? I guess so.

    or did the perp come at the shooter agressively when he turned,and force the guy to shoot him, and the cops stated something otherwise to be able to nail this guy?

    I bet his story gets recanted

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    This is so sad....I really think people are fed up with crime all across the country. What do we really expect when there is no teeth in the Law and criminals are set free to strike again......3 times, come on, and it may not have even been the same guy that he shot....lets face it for what it is........people are sick and tried of it....the bad guys take a chance every time...armed or not.....check out the off duty deputy story in N.C.......Out of character for the young man......what would you do.... I know what I would have done. Cocked and Locked

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    I would be prepared to discover an accomplice reported the supposed exchange. It happens; False testimony by 'witness' as a revenge tactic.
    illegal ≠ immoral legal ≠ moral
    [SIZE=1]"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself. "Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent." - Thomas Jefferson
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    Soilent Green wrote:
    This is so sad....I really think people are fed up with crime all across the country. What do we really expect when there is no teeth in the Law and criminals are set free to strike again......3 times, come on, and it may not have even been the same guy that he shot....lets face it for what it is........people are sick and tried of it....the bad guys take a chance every time...armed or not.....check out the off duty deputy story in N.C.......Out of character for the young man......what would you do.... I know what I would have done. Cocked and Locked
    Yes but the law is the law. The man robbed then ran away... it does not matter how far or long he ran.. he was no longer a threat. You can not justify that killing. If you can justify that then you could just as easily justify killing an 80 yr old man for a robbery he committed when he was 19. Though that is why we have manslaughter... a lesser conviction since it was in the heat of the moment.

    Though look at Texas. Pretty much "*** with the bull and get the horns...even running away". If I were a robber I sure as hell would not want to live in Texas.

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    Streetbikerr6 wrote:
    Though look at Texas. Pretty much "*** with the bull and get the horns...even running away". If I were a robber I sure as hell would not want to live in Texas.
    We should be making our state laws more like Texas'!

    Look at it this way. Say my car is sitting in my driveway, people come to steal it. I can sit inside my house on the phone to 911 and wait a couple hours fora police officer to come and take down my report or go outside and place myself in mortal danger trying to stop them from stealing the car. I can't shoot unless I fear for my life but I have now become part of the confrontation. So as I read it I need to retreat and they need to pursue before I could use lethal force.

    The country would be a lot better off if people could defend their property with lethal force as well as their lives. Less dirtbags and a STRONG deterrant to crime. I think most criminals don't fear jail anymore, they look at it as 3 meals a day and plenty of time to workout. That is why they fear an armed citizen more than a police officer because they can use the system/rules to their advantage and know the police officer "probably" isn't going to shoot them.

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    45acpForMe wrote:
    Streetbikerr6 wrote:
    Though look at Texas. Pretty much "*** with the bull and get the horns...even running away". If I were a robber I sure as hell would not want to live in Texas.
    We should be making our state laws more like Texas'!

    Look at it this way. Say my car is sitting in my driveway, people come to steal it. I can sit inside my house on the phone to 911 and wait a couple hours fora police officer to come and take down my report or go outside and place myself in mortal danger trying to stop them from stealing the car. I can't shoot unless I fear for my life but I have now become part of the confrontation. So as I read it I need to retreat and they need to pursue before I could use lethal force.

    The country would be a lot better off if people could defend their property with lethal force as well as their lives. Less dirtbags and a STRONG deterrant to crime. I think most criminals don't fear jail anymore, they look at it as 3 meals a day and plenty of time to workout. That is why they fear an armed citizen more than a police officer because they can use the system/rules to their advantage and know the police officer "probably" isn't going to shoot them.
    Yes, my point exactly. The biggest criminal deterrent isn't cops... its the guns the cops bring, why wait? Just weird Texas seems anti-gun too sometimes though, what with the gun free military base Ft. Hoodthat let that terrorist kill tons a couple months ago. Notice Obama did a great job at keeping that muslim jihad keep under hush just long enough for it to become yesterdays news. Great point about the prison time by the way, never thought of it that way.

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    Streetbikerr6 wrote:
    45acpForMe wrote:
    Streetbikerr6 wrote:
    Though look at Texas. Pretty much "*** with the bull and get the horns...even running away". If I were a robber I sure as hell would not want to live in Texas.
    We should be making our state laws more like Texas'!

    Look at it this way. Say my car is sitting in my driveway, people come to steal it. I can sit inside my house on the phone to 911 and wait a couple hours fora police officer to come and take down my report or go outside and place myself in mortal danger trying to stop them from stealing the car. I can't shoot unless I fear for my life but I have now become part of the confrontation. So as I read it I need to retreat and they need to pursue before I could use lethal force.

    The country would be a lot better off if people could defend their property with lethal force as well as their lives. Less dirtbags and a STRONG deterrant to crime. I think most criminals don't fear jail anymore, they look at it as 3 meals a day and plenty of time to workout. That is why they fear an armed citizen more than a police officer because they can use the system/rules to their advantage and know the police officer "probably" isn't going to shoot them.
    Yes, my point exactly. The biggest criminal deterrent isn't cops... its the guns the cops bring, why wait? Just weird Texas seems anti-gun too sometimes though, what with the gun free military base Ft. Hoodthat let that terrorist kill tons a couple months ago. Notice Obama did a great job at keeping that muslim jihad keep under hush just long enough for it to become yesterdays news. Great point about the prison time by the way, never thought of it that way.
    I'll have to agree and give a collective Amen to the both of you.

    You don't stop attack with words, you stop it with deterrence, or force if it comes to that.



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    A wise man once said, "You can't fix stupid."

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    Exodus 22-2 If a thief be found breaking up, and be smitten that he die,there shall no blood be shed for him.

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    Streetbikerr6 wrote:
    45acpForMe wrote:
    Streetbikerr6 wrote:
    Though look at Texas. Pretty much "*** with the bull and get the horns...even running away". If I were a robber I sure as hell would not want to live in Texas.
    We should be making our state laws more like Texas'!*

    Look at it this way.* Say my car is sitting in my driveway, people come to steal it.* I can sit inside my house on the phone to 911 and wait a couple hours for*a police officer to come and take down my report or go outside and place myself in mortal danger trying to stop them from stealing the car.* I can't shoot unless I fear for my life but I have now become part of the confrontation.* So as I read it I need to retreat and they need to pursue before I could use lethal force.

    The country would be a lot better off if people could defend their property with lethal force as well as their lives.** Less dirtbags and a STRONG deterrant to crime.** I think most criminals don't fear jail anymore, they look at it as 3 meals a day and plenty of time to workout.* That is why they fear an armed citizen more than a police officer because they can use the system/rules to their advantage and know the police officer "probably" isn't going to shoot them.
    Yes, my point exactly. The biggest criminal deterrent isn't cops... its the guns the cops bring, why wait? Just weird Texas seems anti-gun too sometimes though, what with the gun free military base Ft. Hood*that let that terrorist kill tons a couple months ago. Notice Obama did a great job at keeping that muslim jihad keep under hush just long enough for it to become yesterdays news. *Great point about the prison time by the way, never thought of it that way.
    It's not Texas law. It's military law that states only military police can carry guns on base.

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    Soilent Green wrote:
    Exodus 22-2******** If a thief be found breaking up, and be smitten that he die,there shall no blood be shed for him.
    Can we turn them into soylent green and feed them to prisoners?

    "SOYLENT GREEN IS PEOPLE!"

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    tekshogun wrote:
    That was just dumb.

    Good video of the story here:

    http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/dpp/news...rglary-suspect

    I doubt this guy will get off. It seems, if what was stated in the news is what happened, and if he in fact told the police that is what transpired (the conversatin between he and Silas, then it is a case of what you're not supposed to do. Most of us don't live in Texas.
    That's murder in Texas too.

    But thanks forone example ofbigotry towards Texas thatkeeps fueling the myth about being "wild with guns" and "anything goes"- ever alive andkicking. That always helps everyone's cause here. :quirky

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    Soilent Green wrote:
    Exodus 22-2 If a thief be found breaking up, and be smitten that he die,there shall no blood be shed for him.

    If you read closer you can see that it is about unintentional death.

    You can get your smite on without killing, God's just got ya covered if it just so happenswhilst you're smiting him the heck out of your place.

    This guykilled a non-fighter who gave up.

    If he really did say that to the guy he shot and then repeat it into the police report like he thought it was righteousthen I'm going to vote in the jury room that he doesn't get to make those decisions anymore. JMO - based on limited facts presented.


    Did the story ever say they took somethin that night? Looks like they were only on the yard so far - not in his house.Never a good shoot in Texas unless they were more aggressive than this. - Violence, valuable items bobbing off into the dark of the night, etc.

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    CommonMan101 wrote:
    Soilent Green wrote:
    Exodus 22-2 If a thief be found breaking up, and be smitten that he die,there shall no blood be shed for him.
    If you read closer you can see that it is about unintentional death.
    :
    This guykilled a non-fighter who gave up.
    Yes I agree that this BG seemingly gave up and shouldn't have been shot. I just think you keep shooting UNTIL he gives up. That means if he is running away, we should be allowed to keep shooting. Maybe for only violent crime we should be allowed to keep shooting but then again it would be deterrence for most theives if they knew they would be pursued by bullets.

    Just like the law (should depending on your state) protects someone from criminal prosecution if you are defending yourself and one of your bullets hits an innocent. The criminal is charged with that death because their crime was the cause of the confrontation. So if someone initiates a crime/confrontation we should be protected from any criminal (and civil) liability. As someone mentioned above, you f__k with the bull, you get the horns, your own darn fault.

    If he stops and sits nicely until police show up he just won the "life/death" lottery.

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    double posted, sorry

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    CommonMan101 wrote:

    tekshogun wrote:
    That was just dumb.

    Good video of the story here:

    CommonMan101 wrote:
    tekshogun wrote:
    That was just dumb.

    Good video of the story here:

    http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/dpp/news...rglary-suspect

    I doubt this guy will get off. It seems, if what was stated in the news is what happened, and if he in fact told the police that is what transpired (the conversatin between he and Silas, then it is a case of what you're not supposed to do. Most of us don't live in Texas.
    That's murder in Texas too.

    But thanks forone example ofbigotry towards Texas thatkeeps fueling the myth about being "wild with guns" and "anything goes"- ever alive andkicking. That always helps everyone's cause here. :quirky
    Excuseme if I'vemaimed Texas' image. That was not my intent and I apologize, however, it was a bit of a reference to apersonof Pasedena who shot two people in the back (in November of 2007) that were runningaway. He was exonerated by a grand jury. I am not arguing ifhis actionswere morally right or wrong but it was murder.A group of peoplejustified it for him. This person, in Detroit, well, we'll see.

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    tekshogun wrote:
    CommonMan101 wrote:

    tekshogun wrote:
    That was just dumb.

    Good video of the story here:

    CommonMan101 wrote:
    tekshogun wrote:
    That was just dumb.

    Good video of the story here:

    http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/dpp/news...rglary-suspect

    I doubt this guy will get off. It seems, if what was stated in the news is what happened, and if he in fact told the police that is what transpired (the conversatin between he and Silas, then it is a case of what you're not supposed to do. Most of us don't live in Texas.
    That's murder in Texas too.

    But thanks forone example ofbigotry towards Texas thatkeeps fueling the myth about being "wild with guns" and "anything goes"- ever alive andkicking. That always helps everyone's cause here. :quirky
    Excuseme if I'vemaimed Texas' image. That was not my intent and I apologize, however, it was a bit of a reference to apersonof Pasedena who shot two people in the back (in November of 2007) that were runningaway. He was exonerated by a grand jury. I am not arguing ifhis actionswere morally right or wrong but it was murder.A group of peoplejustified it for him. This person, in Detroit, well, we'll see.
    Yes here is the phone call of the ordeal by the way..

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPuM_XAo2BE

    I thought everyone that lived in Texas knew about this man? At least anyone that owned a gun in Texas.

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    ughh double tap

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    tekshogun wrote:
    CommonMan101 wrote:

    tekshogun wrote:
    That was just dumb.

    Good video of the story here:

    CommonMan101 wrote:
    tekshogun wrote:
    That was just dumb.

    Good video of the story here:

    http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/dpp/news...rglary-suspect

    I doubt this guy will get off. It seems, if what was stated in the news is what happened, and if he in fact told the police that is what transpired (the conversatin between he and Silas, then it is a case of what you're not supposed to do. Most of us don't live in Texas.
    That's murder in Texas too.

    But thanks forone example ofbigotry towards Texas thatkeeps fueling the myth about being "wild with guns" and "anything goes"- ever alive andkicking. That always helps everyone's cause here. :quirky
    Excuseme if I'vemaimed Texas' image. That was not my intent and I apologize, however, it was a bit of a reference to apersonof Pasedena who shot two people in the back (in November of 2007) that were runningaway. He was exonerated by a grand jury. I am not arguing ifhis actionswere morally right or wrong but it was murder.A group of peoplejustified it for him. This person, in Detroit, well, we'll see.
    No problem!

    Was just trying to point out how easy it is to keep myths going. Your wordsimplied a picture that's not really true about Tx.

    And as far as Mr Horne goes - his situation was that the perps were taking off with a neighbor'sstolen items in the night - they were in the middle of committing a crime at night. They refused to drop the items and stop. Those particulars are what made it a goodshoot. He was NOT just shooting someone that was only trespassing and had already left the property like this story. So no real parallel - just a simular sounding one. If you can't shoot them in the back likeHorne's scene then you can't shoot them at all when they are stealing your valuables and taking off inyour car too!

    Calling Horne's scenario murder is a personal opinion anyone can have but the good people of Texas draw the line a little closer than others on this point. It is probably the difference that some states don't allow deadly force against theft of property that leads some tocall itmurder. (BTW calling it murder IS arguing that it's morally wrong) In the UK if you shoot, stab or cluba life threatening intruder in your house you get prosecuted for defending yourself with a deadly weapon. Something most of us would find absurd.

    Viva La Difference' !! I say pick where you live according to what laws you agree with if you can't get any traction to change them to the way you want. Being born in Texas and having lived in 3 other states before moving back, I will move to an open-carry state if it looks like it will never happen here - I'm in the last part of my life so this choice will come within 10 years. But I will NEVER live in the UK or any other namby-pamby nanny police-state. Heck the way things are today I don't even want to visit a country I have to be dis-armed so I guess I'll staywithin the U.S. bordersforever.

    When I was a kid Mexico was a lively, colorful place to go. I'll never set foot in it again. Scares the living daylights outta me what's going on down there now.

    We haveless gunfreedoms in Texas compared to most other states. We're actually closer to Illinois and NY than states like AZ and LA and way far away from the likes of VT and AK. We are no wild west like we get portrayed so often. A lot of people are made into felons here thinking anything they want to do with a gun is OK. It's actually pretty tight here.

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    CommonMan101 wrote:
    No problem!

    Was just trying to point out how easy it is to keep myths going. Your words*implied a picture that's not really true about Tx.

    And as far as Mr Horne goes - his situation was that the perps were taking off with a neighbor's*stolen items in the night - they were in the middle of committing a crime at night. They refused to drop the items and stop. Those particulars are what made it a good*shoot. He was NOT just shooting someone that was only trespassing and had already left the property like this story. So no real parallel - just a simular sounding one. If you can't shoot them in the back like*Horne's scene then you can't shoot them at all when they are stealing your valuables and taking off in*your car too!

    Calling Horne's scenario murder is a personal opinion anyone can have but the good people of Texas draw the line a little closer than others on this point. It is probably the difference that some states don't allow deadly force against theft of property that leads some to*call it*murder. (BTW calling it murder IS arguing that it's morally wrong) In the UK if you shoot, stab or club*a life threatening intruder in your house you get prosecuted for defending yourself with a deadly weapon. Something most of us would find absurd.

    Viva La Difference' !! I say pick where you live according to what laws you agree with if you can't get any traction to change them to the way you want. Being born in Texas and having lived in 3 other states before moving back, I will move to an open-carry state if it looks like it will never happen here - I'm in the last part of my life so this choice will come within 10 years. But I will NEVER live in the UK or any other namby-pamby nanny police-state. Heck the way things are today I don't even want to visit a country I have to be dis-armed so I guess I'll stay*within the U.S. borders*forever.

    When I was a kid Mexico was a lively, colorful place to go. I'll never set foot in it again. Scares the living daylights outta me what's going on down there now.

    We have*less gun*freedoms in Texas compared to most other states. We're actually closer to Illinois and NY than states like AZ and LA and way far away from the likes of VT and AK. We are no wild west like we get portrayed so often. A lot of people are made into felons here thinking anything they want to do with a gun is OK. It's actually pretty tight here.*
    I hear what you are saying. The crime was committed during the day, at 2 p.m. unless it gets dark that early, even for November, in Texas.

    I agree, live where you like the laws. Honestly, Kentucky or Vermont would be great for me, but I hate the weather and it is too far from the coast. I like North Carolina just fine. Yes, the UK sucks. A recent European Union report on crime showed that the UK violent-crime, based on percentages of population, is something like 4 to 4.5 times higher than that of the United States of America. They think we're the cowboys? Yeah, I'd rather take my chances over here then have a high chance of being gang-raped by a bunch of closet homosexual neo-nazis, blungeoned to death, or stabbed to death, or possibly shot by a gangster in the presence of a cop that isn't even armed. No bloody thank you.

    Texas may have some crazy gun laws, I don't know, but I can assure you its far better than California. Those people have it BAD. As for Mexico, man, that's the drug trade, it has gotten out of control. That is for another discussion as the War on Drugs is not exactly winnable. The reason there are violent drug cartels is because a market for their skills and product has been pushed in the "light of the black market." I'll just leave that alone.

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