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Thread: Is Pentagon City mall posted?

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    Hey guys,

    The girlfriend wants to go up to pentagon city mall, and since I have not been there I was wondering if it is posted or if anyone has had any problems carrying there. Thanks

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    Founder's Club Member Tess's Avatar
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    I haven't been there in several months. I've carried openly when I've gone.

    It's a Simon Property. I'm told Simon Properties are not gun-friendly, but I've only seen one posted, and then only at one entrance.
    Laws alone can not secure freedom of expression; in order that every man present his views without penalty there must be spirit of tolerance in the entire population. -Albert Einstein

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    You can't get to it or use the parking lot without going through DOD/Pentagon property, if I recall correctly. That's covered by a special federal regulation that makes it a misdemeanor to be in possession of a firearm. Locked and unloaded in the trunk doesn't get any special dispensation of grace, either.
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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    user wrote:
    You can't get to it or use the parking lot without going through DOD/Pentagon property, if I recall correctly.
    yeah ya can...


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    ed wrote:
    user wrote:
    You can't get to it or use the parking lot without going through DOD/Pentagon property, if I recall correctly.
    yeah ya can...

    maybe he's thinking of the shops and eateries contained within the pentagon facility
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    Agent19 wrote:
    ed wrote:
    user wrote:
    You can't get to it or use the parking lot without going through DOD/Pentagon property, if I recall correctly.
    yeah ya can...

    maybe he's thinking of the shops and eateries contained within the pentagon facility
    Yes, I was. Been a long time since I've been out there.
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    Founder's Club Member Tess's Avatar
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    Sure you can. Get off the metro at the Pentagon City exit and go up the escalator, turn left and to in to the mall. (Which is why I haven't been in so long; I despise Metro and try to ride only on weekends, when I don't have to pay for parking at their stations.)

    Pentagon and the mall (which is actually Fashion City (Fashion Square? I forget) Mall at Pentagon City).
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    Activist Member JamesCanby's Avatar
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    Pentagon City Mall is Posted

    I went to this mall over the weekend and although there are no large signs on the doors, there are posted just inside the outer doors signs call the "Code of Conduct" that list about 15 things that patrons may not do while inside rthe mall. About halfway down the list is a prohibition against weapons of any kind, "including, but not limited to firearms, knives, etc., or anything else that could be used to inflict harm."

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    Regular Member Uber_Olafsun's Avatar
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    You go through the mall doors and there is a tiny notice with all the rules. You go through Macy's or Nordstroms and nothing. Been there plenty of times since it is the wife's favorite mall. OC with no problems. Then again that mall usually doesn't have the thugs like Springfield or Landmark so maybe they are less concerned?

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    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    Sounds like User's last visit to the "Pentagon Mall" was about the time mine was... The 80's?
    The REAL "Pentagon Mall" is UNDER the Pentagon and you were there as soon as you stepped off the METRO. I think since 9/11, that subway station has been closed, maybe before that.

    The "new" one is Pentagon City or something like that. I've never been there, but heard its nice. It must be quite some distance from the Pentagon, though. The parking lots take up a LOT of room and I can't imagine them using any of that space for a new mall.
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    Activist Member JamesCanby's Avatar
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    Not on the Pentagon property

    Quote Originally Posted by MSC 45ACP View Post
    Sounds like User's last visit to the "Pentagon Mall" was about the time mine was... The 80's?
    The REAL "Pentagon Mall" is UNDER the Pentagon and you were there as soon as you stepped off the METRO. I think since 9/11, that subway station has been closed, maybe before that.

    The "new" one is Pentagon City or something like that. I've never been there, but heard its nice. It must be quite some distance from the Pentagon, though. The parking lots take up a LOT of room and I can't imagine them using any of that space for a new mall.
    "Fashion Center at Pentagon City," aka Pentagon City Mall is NOT the shopping area inside the Pentagon.

    Pentagon City Mall is located in the commercial shopping district across the highway (I-395) from the Pentagon complex. It has no connection with the Pentagon or the Pentagon's parking areas.

    It is one of the nicest indoor shopping malls in the NoVA area, convenient to most people in Alexandria, Arlington and DC, and contains the usual array of higher-end stores. There is a Metro stop on the ground level, and many people use part of the Mall's parking garage as Metro parking.

    Now .... as to OC while in the Mall ... While walking through the Mall last Saturday, there were plenty of security guards in evidence. I have not ever entered through the Macy's or Nordstrom's entrances and therefore cannot comment about the lack of "No Weapons" signs at those entrances. When entering from the parking lot, the Code of Conduct signs are at each entrance.

    Would OC in the general Mall area, therefore, be considered a violation of those rules and could you be asked to leave? Would it be considered trespassing *before* a security guard asked you to leave, or merely a violation of their "rules?"

    Uber, can you confirm that you OC in Pentagon City Mall and that you have never had a problem there? Have you ever been in close proximity to a Pentagon City Mall security guard while OCing?
    Last edited by JamesCanby; 09-08-2010 at 09:15 AM.

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by user View Post
    You can't get to it or use the parking lot without going through DOD/Pentagon property, if I recall correctly. That's covered by a special federal regulation that makes it a misdemeanor to be in possession of a firearm. Locked and unloaded in the trunk doesn't get any special dispensation of grace, either.
    User,

    I don't doubt what you write but can you explain the special federal regulation that you mention? We know of the federal building ban, but parking lots?
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    Perhaps he is referring to 32 CFR 234.10. I believe this link is publicly accessible: http://www.defense.gov/home/features...l/32cfr234.pdf

    For the most part the reservation is treated like all other DOD installations. In theory you should be able to pass through the reservation with an unloaded and cased firearm. But not stop?

    As far back as I remember 1995 or so, the general public has never had direct access to the concourse shops in the pentagon itself. The renovation of the pentagon metro stop only changed the fact that you could no longer enter from below ground.

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    Activist Member JamesCanby's Avatar
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    This thread is not about the shops inside the pentagon

    Quote Originally Posted by Stafford_1911 View Post
    Perhaps he is referring to 32 CFR 234.10. I believe this link is publicly accessible: http://www.defense.gov/home/features...l/32cfr234.pdf

    For the most part the reservation is treated like all other DOD installations. In theory you should be able to pass through the reservation with an unloaded and cased firearm. But not stop?

    As far back as I remember 1995 or so, the general public has never had direct access to the concourse shops in the pentagon itself. The renovation of the pentagon metro stop only changed the fact that you could no longer enter from below ground.
    This thread is about the commercial enterprise known as Pentagon City Mall -- across the highway from the Pentagon and not connected to it in any way.

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    You are correct. I apologize for derailing the thread. I was addressing several side comments above.

    Back to the regularly scheduled program….

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    Activist Member JamesCanby's Avatar
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    No problem

    Quote Originally Posted by Stafford_1911 View Post
    You are correct. I apologize for derailing the thread. I was addressing several side comments above.

    Back to the regularly scheduled program….
    I just wanted to make sure everyone knew what property we were talking about.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesCanby View Post
    This thread is about the commercial enterprise known as Pentagon City Mall -- across the highway from the Pentagon and not connected to it in any way.
    True - my understanding was, in fact, based on my last visits there in the early '80's, back when me and Al were inventing the information superhighway. But to answer the question, here's some excerpts (though I would argue that, as applied to nonmilitary personnel, this exceeds the scope of the military departments' rulemaking authority):
    § 234.2 Applicability.
    The provisions of this part apply to all areas, lands, and waters on or adjoining the Pentagon Reservation and under the jurisdiction of the United States, and to all persons entering in or on the property. They supplement those penal provisions of Title 18, United States Code, relating to crimes and criminal procedure and those provisions of State law that are federal criminal offenses by virtue of the Assimilative Crimes Act, 18 U.S.C. 13.

    § 234.10 Weapons.
    (a) Except as otherwise authorized under this section, the following are prohibited:
    (1) Possessing a weapon.
    (2) Carrying a weapon.
    (3) Using a weapon.
    (b) This section does not apply to any agency or Department of Defense component that has received prior written
    approval from the Pentagon Force Protection Agency or the Installation Commander to carry, transport, or use
    a weapon in support of a security, law enforcement, or other lawful purpose while on the Pentagon Reservation.

    § 234.19 Penalties and effect on other laws.
    (a) Whoever shall be found guilty of willfully violating any rule or regulation enumerated in this part is subject to the penalties imposed by Federal law for the commission of a Class B misdemeanor offense.
    (b) Whoever violates any rule or regulation enumerated in this part is liable to the United States for a civil penalty of not more than $1,000.
    (c) Nothing in this part shall be construed to abrogate any other Federal laws.

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    Activist Member JamesCanby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by user View Post
    True - my understanding was, in fact, based on my last visits there in the early '80's, back when me and Al were inventing the information superhighway. But to answer the question, here's some excerpts (though I would argue that, as applied to nonmilitary personnel, this exceeds the scope of the military departments' rulemaking authority):
    § 234.2 Applicability.
    The provisions of this part apply to all areas, lands, and waters on or adjoining the Pentagon Reservation and under the jurisdiction of the United States, and to all persons entering in or on the property.

    This regulation may well apply to "all areas, lands, and waters on or adjoining the Pentagon Reservation and under the jurisdiction of the United States ..." but it has absolutely nothing to do with, and has no authority over the commercial enterprise known as the Fashion Center at Pentagon City.

    We are NOT talking about the DoD facility known as the Pentagon. How can I say this in such a way as to make it any clearer?

    I think we all know that the Pentagon is a military facility and subject to all of the restrictions regarding the carry of any weapon without the installation commander's permission.

    Pentagon City Mall is a commercial enterprise that is not connected in any way with the Pentagon and is not subject to any of DoD's regulations.

    Dang!

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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesCanby View Post
    ...We are NOT talking about the DoD facility known as the Pentagon. How can I say this in such a way as to make it any clearer?
    ... Pentagon City Mall is a commercial enterprise that is not connected in any way with the Pentagon and is not subject to any of DoD's regulations. ...
    You made that perfectly clear - I was responding to a tangential question.

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    Regular Member Uber_Olafsun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesCanby View Post
    "Fashion Center at Pentagon City," aka Pentagon City Mall is NOT the shopping area inside the Pentagon.

    Pentagon City Mall is located in the commercial shopping district across the highway (I-395) from the Pentagon complex. It has no connection with the Pentagon or the Pentagon's parking areas.

    It is one of the nicest indoor shopping malls in the NoVA area, convenient to most people in Alexandria, Arlington and DC, and contains the usual array of higher-end stores. There is a Metro stop on the ground level, and many people use part of the Mall's parking garage as Metro parking.

    Now .... as to OC while in the Mall ... While walking through the Mall last Saturday, there were plenty of security guards in evidence. I have not ever entered through the Macy's or Nordstrom's entrances and therefore cannot comment about the lack of "No Weapons" signs at those entrances. When entering from the parking lot, the Code of Conduct signs are at each entrance.

    Would OC in the general Mall area, therefore, be considered a violation of those rules and could you be asked to leave? Would it be considered trespassing *before* a security guard asked you to leave, or merely a violation of their "rules?"

    Uber, can you confirm that you OC in Pentagon City Mall and that you have never had a problem there? Have you ever been in close proximity to a Pentagon City Mall security guard while OCing?
    I am not sure if the security inside macys is mall or their own but I have been by them before. Normally don't see that many security gaurds around the place. Plus the fact that I keep getting told I look like a cop wearing a polo shirt and buzz cut hair do may help. That's one thing my wife likes about me open carrying. I tend to dress nicer when I go out.

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    Wanted to thank you for the posts in this thread. Lead me to the answer of a question I had.

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