Court upholds police pointing gun at lawful carrier

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This came out of Atlanta 5 days ago. Unbelievable!!
Do these judges even bother to read the Constitution?



http://www.examiner.com/x-5619-Atla...pholds-police-pointing-gun-at-lawful-carriers

:banghead:

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At some point a police officer, J.B. Stern, who lived up to his last name, caught a glimpse of the attorney's pistol, and he leapt out of his patrol car "in a dynamic and explosive manner" with his gun drawn, pointing it at the attorney's face.

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Officer Stern "partially Mirandized Schubert, mentioned the possibility of a criminal charge, and told Schubert that he (Stern) was the only person allowed to carry a weapon on his beat."

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I don't even know what to say...I simply can not believe that a court anywhere upheld the constitutionality of this!

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Wow. I am glad I don't 1) Live in Atlanta and 2) Visit there often.

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I hope they appeal that to the SCOTUS. It needs to be fixed.

TFred

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TFred wrote:

I hope they appeal that to the SCOTUS. It needs to be fixed.

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And every link in the chain removed and punished for their negligent disregard of sovereign rights.

I'm disgusted.

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The problem with this Case that 'justified' The MARTA Police at 'pointed Firearms at [a]Lawful carrier' is that:

1. In Georgia, carrying a concealed Firearmhas a lot more 'politics' surronding it than what does carrying a Firearm Openly, however; in Atlanta, because of High Crime, carrying a Firearm is seen in a totally different light altogether.

2. Mr. Raisse, I believe, actually concealed His Firearm as he was walking into the terminal. Yes, although His actions were Lawful, what raised the 'alarm' is that he moved His Firearm from Open carry to Concealed Carry as He was walkinginto the terminal in front of many People. Therefore, manyPeople, who are themselves probablyignorant ofGeorgia Law, summoned Police because of the 'perception' that He was trying to do something'discreetly', and trying to 'hide' something... i.e. a Pistol.

3. Finally, in Georgia, under Case Law fromthe mid-1800s, carrying a Concealed Firearm/Weapon in Georgia is seen as something that is '...evil and hideous'. This is well established throughout many rulings under Georgia Law, which, is why, Georgia Law reads that whenever a Person carryies a Firearm in Public it hasto be done so, '...only in an Open manner and fully exposed to view [of the public]'.

In short... if He would of just left His Firearm out in the Open the ruling probably would have went in a lot different direction.

In fact, whenver one carries a Firearm in Georgia at all, it is just best to leave it out in the Open, because; there are too many waysThe Police/Courts can build a Case forIllegal Concealed Carry.

Here is one, of about three or four bone-fide, examples:

1. In Georgia, to carry a Pistol in Public at all one needs to have a Valid Georgia Firearms License, or its equivalent from another reconzed reciproctiy State (such as Virginia). Easy enough right..., wrong, its actually trickier, because,

2. If the Pistol is carried Openly it does not have to be in Holster, and it does not matter if itisLoaded or not, but...

3.If you carry a Pistol concealed, ...even with a Permit, you can beArrested, on the spot, IF: A. The Pistol is not in a Holster, and then covered up in an attache/breifcase/coat/purse/etc., OR B. The Pistol is Loaded. Thats right People and that is howeasy it is to mess it all up in Georgia, thanks Jim Crow..., yep, if your Pistol is Concealed in Georgia anda Police Officer finds out it is Loaded, then, ooops..., you are going to Jail! Also, if your Pistol is in Briefcase/under your Coat, and is trying to be Concealed, but imprints or sticks out, then, ooops... you are going to Jail again!

Simply put, and this is a learning lesson for Mr. Raisse, I believe that is howone spellsHis name, but, anyway, simply put: A. Get a Valid Georgia Firearms License, or its equivalent, and B. Get a Holster, then, C. Load the Pistol, put it in the Holster, and wear it on your Hip or Thigh so that you do not have to worry about the 'technicalities' of our best Southern Friend... Mr. Jim Crow!

Georgia Code confirms everything that I have said and it is codified under 16-11-126(Carrying a Concealed Weapon)and 16-11-128(Carrying Pistol without a License).

Currently there is prefilied Legislation to do away with 16-11-128 and significantly rewrite 16-11-126 to make it a lot less confusing. The prefiled Legislation is Hose Bill 615, and there is also a Senate Bill, I believe, Senate Bill, er..., 291, I think.

Hopefully soon, 'Pro-Gun' Georgia, will be a REAL 'Pro-Gun' State... like: Virginia, but until then, we all get to thank all of the Bla.. oops, I mean... Jim Crow Laws here in the Peach State!


By the way... one more little tid-bit of information: All of the Firearm/Weapon Laws on the books in Georgia are all there because of Minorities in and around Atlanta, and other places in Georgia. All of these Laws were to disarm, Bla.. oops (underprivleadged), not Whi... ooops (Privleadged) while they[those People]went about their business in Public.

Thank you again... Mr. Jim Crow! For mor information visit: GeorgiaCarry.com/Racist History of Gun Laws in Georgia.

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The problem for Officer Stern was that there is no way to do so in Massachusetts, where this incident occurred.

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Seems this happened in Mass., the write just happens to be in Georgia.

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In Virginia there is no exception to the brandishing law forJBTs who point guns at LACs. The only exception is for pointing while arresting someoneelsewho wasbrandishing a firearm.

Theactions of the officer would have beena class 1 misdemeanor, or class 6 felony if done within 1,000 feet of a school.

Norfolk paid Danbus $10,000 in damages for a similar incident. I still am perturbed that the officer in the Danbus incident escaped criminal prosecution.

VA Brandishing Law Link: http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-282

VA Brandishing Law:

§ 18.2-282. Pointing, holding, or brandishing firearm, air or gas operated weapon or object similar in appearance; penalty.

A. It shall be unlawful for any person to point, hold or brandish any firearm or any air or gas operated weapon or any object similar in appearance, whether capable of being fired or not, in such manner as to reasonably induce fear in the mind of another or hold a firearm or any air or gas operated weapon in a public place in such a manner as to reasonably induce fear in the mind of another of being shot or injured. However, this section shall not apply to any person engaged in excusable or justifiable self-defense. Persons violating the provisions of this section shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor or, if the violation occurs upon any public, private or religious elementary, middle or high school, including buildings and grounds or upon public property within 1,000 feet of such school property, he shall be guilty of a Class 6 felony.

B. Any police officer in the performance of his duty, in making an arrest under the provisions of this section, shall not be civilly liable in damages for injuries or death resulting to the person being arrested if he had reason to believe that the person being arrested was pointing, holding, or brandishing such firearm or air or gas operated weapon, or object that was similar in appearance, with intent to induce fear in the mind of another.

C. For purposes of this section, the word "firearm" means any weapon that will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel single or multiple projectiles by the action of an explosion of a combustible material. The word "ammunition," as used herein, shall mean a cartridge, pellet, ball, missile or projectile adapted for use in a firearm.

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aadvark wrote:

The problem with this Case that 'justified' The MARTA Police at 'pointed 3.  Finally, in Georgia, under Case Law from the mid-1800s, carrying a Concealed Firearm/Weapon in Georgia is seen as something that is '...evil and hideous'.  This is well established throughout many rulings under Georgia Law, which, is why, Georgia Law reads that whenever a Person carryies a Firearm in Public it has to be done so, '...only in an Open manner and fully exposed to view [of the public]'. 

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If this is true, how is it reconciled with Georgia requiring a permit for OC, which permit is, more often than not, used for CC?

Also, this would imply that, contrary to the OCDO map, Georgia is a "traditional" OC state, where presumably OC has only become "abnormal" in very recent times.

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And why, oh why, is this in the Virginia subforum? Is the Georgia one very hard to access? :shock:

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marshaul wrote:

And why, oh why, is this in the Virginia subforum? Is the Georgia one very hard to access? :shock:

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It is in the VA subforum because a member of this forum who lives here thought it might be interesting to the Virginia members, as a federal court has ruled a LEO had a right to point a weapon at a law abiding citizen.

I also think Virginians need to see this information.

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Wolf_shadow wrote:

marshaul wrote:

And why, oh why, is this in the Virginia subforum? Is the Georgia one very hard to access? :shock:

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It is in the VA subforum because a member of this forum who lives here thought it might be interesting to the Virginia members, as a federal court has ruled a LEO had a right to point a weapon at a law abiding citizen.

I also think Virginians need to see this information.

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The question that comes to my mind, is this ruling based on the state laws of Massachusetts?

If so, it would not seem clear that such a ruling could result from a case originating in another state with better laws.

TFred

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This topic is covered well in this thread.

http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum4/35812.html

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Georgia WAS an Open Carry State..., pre 1933..., but that was when it all changed.

You see, up until that time the only Laws were: 1. Concealed Carry Prohibitions, and 2. Public 'Gathering' (see below to paragraph 3)Prohibitions, BUT, THEN, The Georgia General Assembly passed Georgia Law 26-2903, er..., 16-11-128, prohibiting: 'Carrying a Pistol without a License'.

The whole purpose of this [was] to: 1. Deny Bla..., oops, I mean..., Unprivleadged People who would probably use [that] Pistol in a Crime... from even carrying one at all, because; Judges would not License those types of Persons anyway..., seeing as to how: 1. Civil Rights, 2. Slavery/Civil War/Antebellum/Reconstruction views on those Persons, 3. Jim Crow Laws/Blue Laws/etc.

However, in Georgia... Open carry of a Loaded Rilfe or Loaded Shotgun is Legal though..., just not: 1. In, on, or within a 1000 feet of a School, or 2. At the Capital Hill Buildings, 3. Within 150 feet of a Polling Place, 4. To or while at any 'Public Gathering'... read 16-11-127, 5. In a Nuclear Power Plant Zone, 6. At Public Fishing Areas (...Hunting Law here), 7. or any other Place where the Public is 'Gathered'... whatever that is!

Georgia is the ONLY State where you still have to get a License from a Judge, thanks again Jim Crow, to carry a Pistol in Public..., but remember, in Georgia carrying a Pistol in Public is kind of like Drinking Alcohol in Public..., both are Legal but The First Baptist Church, along with many other religious cul..., ooops, 'groups' have other ideas...

Its like I said, but to put it another way it is a play on Law/Words..., a double edged Catch-22 situation..., if you will. A VERY IN PARTICULAR POLITIC INDEED.