Results 1 to 12 of 12

Thread: Open Carry Kit

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Taylor, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    75

    Post imported post

    I plan on open carrying, and I am aware that I will run into cops who are unaware of my right to do so. My goal is only to educate the officers through experience. I can get over being detained for a few minutes, but I'd prefer not to go to jail. So my question is:

    What documentation should I carry with me?
    Has anyone put together a single sheet of paper with a list of all applicable statutes and court cases?

    Having this information readily available could be the difference between an uncomfortable situation and being locked in jail.

    Its also something that could be handed out to people who are interested, to allow them to learn quickly and easily.

  2. #2
    Regular Member WARCHILD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Corunna, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    1,772

    Post imported post

    Here's what we use for info....



  3. #3
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Grand County, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    249

    Post imported post

    I carry around a few things in an envelope.

    A few copies of this:
    http://miopencarry.org/Attachments/M...o_Pamphlet.PDF

    And some Michigan Legislation.
    750.167, 123.1102 section 2, 750.539a, 750.539c and the AG opinion 7101

    This covers what I consider to be sufficient documentation on firearms and voice recording laws for an encounter.

  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Taylor, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    75

    Post imported post

    Thank you, those will work.

    I am still picturing a business card sized version. Perhaps with the Open Carry logo and a short statement on the front, and a list of statutes on the back. Something that could be handed to someone to convince them without overwhelming them with pages on information.

  5. #5
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Macomb County, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    1,865

    Post imported post

    Just a quick suggestion here. If you happen to be detained feel free to show the officer the information if he lets you but don't use that time to try and educate the police. Try and read wash, rinse, and repeat. That document explains the best method to handle the situation.

  6. #6
    Regular Member WARCHILD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Corunna, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    1,772

    Post imported post

    This info is good for informing the uniformed. You will find, as most of us have, LEO's will not be interested in reading anything you attempt to hand them. You can try but....

  7. #7
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Taylor, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    75

    Post imported post

    You are right about encounters with LEOs. I guess I'm looking for something I can leave on a table at a haircut place, or hand to someone who is interested. Everyone will take a card if you hand it to them, but many are reluctant to take interest if it requires lots of reading.

    Members should have something short and sweet, but solid to spread around.

  8. #8
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Hartford, MI, ,
    Posts
    353

    Post imported post

    First off, WELCOME!

    Second, read this :http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum30/17262.html

    Third, print off a copy of the MOC pamphlet.

    Good luck.

    -Richard-

  9. #9
    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Mulligan's Valley
    Posts
    4,830

    Post imported post

    WARCHILD wrote:
    LEO's will not be interested in reading anything you attempt to hand them. You can try but....
    I have found it to be a 50/50 toss up. Some will take it and read it, some won't.

    I DO suggest having the information there with you, because even if they won't read it, having it with you, and having the officer(s) refuse to take it eliminates the possibility of pleading ignorance. However, do NOT make the mistake of thinking that it would keep you out of jail. The main thing that will keep you out of trouble is not answering questions. Wash rinse repeat or simply shutting the hell up should be your primary concern.

    Much more important than the info is to have at least 2 recorders, one of which is a covert type. Ebay gives us access to all kinds of "spy cams", usually very cheaply. The spy cam should be the primary one to be trusted, and you should be ready to deploy it in such a way that you can get it recording quickly with no one noticing. The other one should be an obvious recorder which you actually ask the cops permission to use. They will either allow this and probably pipe down some, or simply take it, which is the point of the covert recorder. Having other recorders to back up these 2 is also a good idea. I suggest 2 as the minimum.

    One other thing, if possible, don't hesitate to call 911. 911 calls are recorded, and in a court case, few people, if anyone would debate its admissability. Also, you can ask the dispatcher to send state troopers to help stop the harassment.


    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Grand Rapids, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    1,416

    Post imported post

    WaltherP99C wrote:
    I plan on open carrying, and I am aware that I will run into cops who are unaware of my right to do so. My goal is only to educate the officers through experience. I can get over being detained for a few minutes, but I'd prefer not to go to jail. So my question is:

    What documentation should I carry with me?
    Has anyone put together a single sheet of paper with a list of all applicable statutes and court cases?

    Having this information readily available could be the difference between an uncomfortable situation and being locked in jail.

    Its also something that could be handed out to people who are interested, to allow them to learn quickly and easily.
    Welcome to the forum.

    I believe there are resources at either the top of this page, or on the MOC site that provide the info you are looking for. However, if your goal is to, "educate the officers through experience.", then I suggest you find better endeavors, as being detained is not the best time to "educate" an officer.

    There really isn't much reason an officer in this state should be ignorant of the legality of OC, but I suppose it's possible. Chances are that if you run into a problem, it will be more of a case of the officer just not liking OC, and trying to find a way to either get you in legal trouble, or intimidate you into not exercising your rights. Either way, there aren't too many people who like being told by someone outside their field how to do their job. However, the main difference is, officers can do a lot of damage to one who is just "trying to educate them". One member actually provided the officers with a pamphlet, and the officers actually looked up the law, only to charge him with an erroneous crime that was later dismissed in court. That was of course after some ridiculous antics by the prosecutor and judge. And, that was with an officer who was open to reading the document. It didn't matter than the law was on his side. They still brought charges against him that were nothing more than a form of harassment.


    Do what you want, but officers are trained to control encounters with citizens/suspects. As a result, they may be more interested in keeping you talking in an effort to gather evidence against you, rather than you educating them.

    IMHO, best to learn WWR, and learn how to determine when you’re in trouble with an officer. Passing out pamphlets at various locations, and generally spreading the word is an excellent strategy. My belief is that, “The more people who are aware, make it easier for those who wish to use the right.” That’s a positive thing in my mind. Thanks for your efforts.


  11. #11
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Taylor, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    75

    Post imported post

    Thank you guys, this is good info. I didn't mean to suggest that I wanted to teach cops, in a manner of putting my self above them. Clearly that would not work out well. The "wash rinse repeat" is awesome and its the type of thing I was picturing for the card I was talking about. Silence is always the best option, and I love the professionalism in the videos of the people being harassed.

    I should have clarified that by "educating" the officers, I meant allowing them to give me a hard time and let them learn on their own.

    Arguing with LEOs never works, it only makes things worse. I should have been more specific, since that was not what I was implying. I am only trying to find the most efficient way to represent the OC laws.

  12. #12
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Grand Rapids, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    1,416

    Post imported post

    WaltherP99C wrote:
    Thank you guys, this is good info. I didn't mean to suggest that I wanted to teach cops, in a manner of putting my self above them. Clearly that would not work out well. The "wash rinse repeat" is awesome and its the type of thing I was picturing for the card I was talking about. Silence is always the best option, and I love the professionalism in the videos of the people being harassed.

    I should have clarified that by "educating" the officers, I meant allowing them to give me a hard time and let them learn on their own.

    Arguing with LEOs never works, it only makes things worse. I should have been more specific, since that was not what I was implying. I am only trying to find the most efficient way to represent the OC laws.
    We're all here to learn. If I misconstrued some of your comments, then I appreciate the grace of your response.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •