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Thread: Vehicle defense firearm?

  1. #1
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    I'm not sure if this is the right place to post this, but I am asking about selecting a gun, so I'll give it a shot. (pun :P)

    Anyways, this forum has been alot of help to me, but I've got another question.

    Ok, I'm 18 and I'm looking for another firearm. I've never bought myself a gun, but would really like to. Just for the experience ya know? Here's my problem, being my age I can only buy a shotgun or a rifle. The thing is I'm looking for a vehicle defense gun. Meaning a gun I'll have in my car as much as possible as crime/shootings/etc. are gettting popular around here.

    While I could be in possession of a handgun owned by a parents, I'm a little nervous about it. I know North Carolina law states that anyone over 18can possess OR carry a handgun, but it's still a little "sketchy". The law also states that NC has no laws governing how a gun is transported, except for the fact it MUST be visible. That means by law, I could carry/possess a loaded firearm in my car or on my person.

    But what would I say if I got pulled over? Oh...ummm...ummm hey officer, just to let you know.....ummm I've got a loaded firearm in the vehicle......it's...ummmm....my mom's.....? Then what? Is he gonna call her, or harass me, pull me out and cuff me til it gets sorted out?

    This is what I'm afraid of and part of the reason I'd would almost rather get a shotgun for myself for vehicle defense (VD). Would a 12 gauge or even 20 gauge shotgun with a 18 inch barrel and a pistol grip folding stock be a good weapon for this? Say a Mossberg Persuader or something similar.

    I could lay it between the center console and passenger seat (not concealed at all) and have quick access to it. Tried it last night with my Mossy 500 12 ga. with a 24" barrel and 44" over all. While it was cumbersome I was able to lift it up and point it at the driver side door. (Like if I had to shoot through the door.....and it gun was UNloaded). So with trying that, I feel a small gun with an overall length less than 28-30" would be no problem.

    I know I'm rambling, but I really just can't come to a conclusion on my own. Please give your opinions and suggestions. THANK YOU!

    EDIT: I can only spend $350-400. Also, this will be a HD gun on the side to replace my giant boom stick I mentioned earlier. (Mossy 500 with 24" barrel....too hard to swing around the house)

    Short version:

    Need gun for vehicle defense.

    Only 18 years old

    Carry parents handgun? How to explain to the fuzz?

    Buy a shortshotgun for VD? (Pistol grip with folding stock)

    See "EDIT" above.

    :celebrate



  2. #2
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    I'm not an expert on NC law but if it were me and the laws were similar to those in KY (where I live) I wouldn't hesitate a second to have a pistol with me. When it comes down to to it explain with honesty to the police officer should the occasion arise and as long as your record is mostly clean I think he/she should be pretty understanding, especially if you are knowledgable of the exact laws and statutes that allow you to carry. If thats too much of a hassle for you then I'd say a short barrel shotgun with a pistol grip would be the ticket and pretty affordable. Can't go wrong with a mossberg 20ga or if you really really wanna knock someone on their ass then 12ga...but for close quarters of a vehicle and to not over penetrate in the house i'd say 20ga is perfect. If you like the pistol idea check out the Taurus Judge, it was almost designed for VD. Load that baby with .45 long colt and 3in. .410 shells every other shot :-)

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    P.S. I'm only 20 and have been OCing since I was 19. Dress properly and be confident in yourself.

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    Thanks KY Soldier.

    A pistol probably is the best choice for such confined spaces. I would have to use both hands to get the shotgun in posistion let alone cycle the action after the first shot. I've got a bunch of paper I printed off the interwebz with all NC's statutes and laws concerning firearms. I high lighted the important parts and plan to keep that in my car. I think that a good thing to have.

  4. #4
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    Considering your age, I would suggest you do a "risk/benefit" analysis of carrying/not carrying in your car...

    Is the area where you live so crime-ridden that you feel you MUST carry for protection? Do you work a night job? Do you have a REALLY nice car, or a car that is a high-theft model?

    Then consider the other side of this equation. If you get stopped in a traffic stop, are the LEOs in your area likely to give you a raft of $h!+ for having a firearm in your car? Do you get pulled over often currently? Is your car in perfect working order (lights, tags, mirrors, etc)

    If you think you can carry without being arrested if you get pulled over for some minor traffic issue, AND you feel that you MUST carry because not carrying puts you at too much risk for your personal safety, then carry.

    But if you just want to carry because it's legal, you may want to reconsider until you're 21 and can get a CHP. A permit makes vehicle carry a LOT simpler, and goes a long way to "level the field" when it comes to LEO encounters.

    Carring in your car can be a complicated matter, and is even more complicated if you are under 21, have no CHP, or live in an area where the LEO's are not 2A-friendly...

    And you need to remember, if you are already in your car, your best defensive tools are your eyes, the door locks, and the accelerator pedal. There is NO shame in running (or driving) away from a threat if evasion is a viable possibility.

    Situational Awareness is your post powerful tool in personal safety "arsenal"...

    Good luck, and stay safe...
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    Thanks alot Dreamer, you always seem to give good advice. I don't want to carry just because I can, I want to carry because I think I should. I live in Rocky Mount and it's the city on the rise---in crime.

    A few months back my friend was pulling into a parking spot at Wal-Mart when a man jumped in his jeep and demanded that he continue drving. The man kept his hand at his hip as if he had a gun. He made my friend who was 17 at the time drive to the other side of town in a not so good neighborhood. The man got out and told him to stay there, my friend, who is not an idiot drove off. He got to somewhere safe and called the police. They caught the man right where he was dropped off, but not before he could abduct and rob a teenager for $11. This all happened on a Tuesday night at about 1900 (7 PM), my point is, it was still light outside and he was in a busy parking lot.

    If you look at WRAL.com there are shootings weekly, not to mention to many robberies to shake a stick at. If you recall from the news about a week or so back, the was an incident at the mall. A shooting, inside the mall broke out when an 18yr old opened fire on a 14,15, and 16 yr old. I'm not sure if they shot back, but there was speculation that they did. Also, I think the initial shooter is still on the loose.

    As you can see, I feel I need to be armed whenever I feel comfortable, legally of course. I don't want trouble with the police as I am enlisted in The United States Navy awaiting to ship to boot camp in August 2010. But that will NOT stop me from defending my life and my family members from an attacker threatning to take that.

    I e-mailed the Nash County Sheriff about 2 weeks ago about OC and having a weapon in the vehicle. After a week and no response I thought he did'nt get it (my e-mail is kinda messed up), so I sent another. Still no response from him, so I emailed the Chief of Police about a week ago, still no response. I don't know if they are avoiding the discussion or if they are just to busy to talk to the civilians they project.

    Anyways, I still can't come to a decision on what I should carry. Between not knowing how a LEO will handle an 18yr old with a pistol in his car, andwondering if I will be able to effectivley weild a shotgun in a car. I'm just kind of at a loss.

    But, thanks again for your input.

  6. #6
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    +1 for under 21 locked and loaded vehicle carry

    I feel like I MUST carry only where I go to school, and carry because it's my right everywhere else.
    Sic Semper Tyrannis

  7. #7
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Bro, I didn't know you were in Rocky Mount...

    Them's rough parts up 'ere.

    Now I understand...

    Keep your eyes open, and STAY SAFE...
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    I can only spend $350-400. Also, this will be a HD gun on the side to replace my giant boom stick I mentioned earlier. (Mossy 500 with 24" barrel....too hard to swing around the house

    If you decide to go with a shotgun just buy a short barrel and pistol grip for the Mossberg you have.
    Perhaps if you would use a real computer you wouldn't have to apologize for not being able to do so many things on the internet!

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    Since you're waitng to ship out for bootcamp, you need to be very careful you don't mess up and get a gun violation charge against you. It could torpedo your Navy carreer before it gets launched.

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    Just one more opinion....

    If it was me, I would call the Sheriff or PD (whichever is more appropriate for your area) and simply ask them regarding the law for carrying in the car. If thedepartment is big enough that you get low-level administrative flunkies holding you up, then ask if there is a designated community resource or community affairs officer to deal with questions from the public.









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    ecocks wrote:
    Just one more opinion....

    If it was me, I would call the Sheriff or PD (whichever is more appropriate for your area) and simply ask them regarding the law for carrying in the car. If theÂ*department is big enough that you get low-level administrative flunkies holding you up, then ask if there is a designated community resource or community affairs officer to deal with questions from the public.
    Problem with that is, if your cops are anything like the cops around here, they are basically ignorant of gun laws (if not laws in general)
    Sic Semper Tyrannis

  12. #12
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    If you want a vehicle defense gun that can also serve as a home defense gun, but the shortest cheapest firearm you can find.

    I got a brand new Maverick 88 for $150 at a gun show. It operates very well. It can holdsix 2-3/4" 12 guage shells or five 3" 12 guage shells. You can get a folding stock for them and a pistol grip. It comes with a very basic bead sight and you can add accessories to it such as lights, lasers, or whatever makes you prefer. It's options aren't are great as as Mossberg but it works.

    If you can miraculously find a Ruger Mini-14 for as cheap as you are willing to spend, that would be great. They're certainy small enough or if you don't mind a .22 cal rifle, such as a GSG-5 or something else that is small and lightweight. You trade stopping power for capacity so you can at least throw a lot of Hell at someone and generally, if someone saw something that looked like an H&K MP5 or an AK-47, they may not wish to wait around to see if it is only a .22 cal or a larger caliber.

    With anything you put in your vehicle, locking or securing it from theft will be a challenge. You can always consider accessing your trunk from inside the vehicle (if you rear seat folds down to allow this) or if you must, get out with the weapon and place it in the trunk. You may not have a trunk so that may not be easy. You can also consider a locking system/jig for your long gun while in the vehicle such as what some police use for their shotguns and patrol rifles. You can lock you firearm when you leave your vehicle, unlock it when you are in it.

    Just some thoughts. Your price range is very limiting. If you pick up a little more cash, you can get your self something like a used Sterling 9mm Rifle with a folding stock.

    Just some thoughts, I would generally stick with a shotgun and a folding stock.


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    Thanks Dreamer, it is gettin' pretty ruff up here and to be honest it's scary. I had to go to the Rocky Mount Wall-Mart the other night (which I try to avoid as much as possible) because the Nashville Wally was out of what I needed. It was probably 8 PM or so and dark. I was worried so I grabbed my Mossy and sat in my car for a few minutes and practiced getting it into action quickly. I found it wasn't that hard so I ventured on to WM. It all turned out fine, but I just don't like going to places like that after dark anymore.

    BTW, I know people will ask what was so important to go and get.My outdoor light bulbs went out that day and Nashvilles Wally didn't have the ones I needed. I kinda like being able to have the porch lights on a night when I go outside, ya know?

    Jeeper, I thought about doing that, but my mom got me that shotgun for Christamas a few years back. It was intended for a hunting/clay shooting gun not a tactical defender. Because of that I kind of want to keep it the way it is.

    Tekshogun, thanks for the suggestions on good VD guns. I'll look into those, but I don't want to go down to a .22lr. I want something powerful enough to go through my door and still have enough energy to stop them. (not trying to sound mall ninja or hollywood, just practical)

    And like stated earlier, I don't want to do anything to hinder me from serving our country. I'm going to make extra sure everything I'm doing is legal before hand.

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    Seniordep2010 wrote:
    Tekshogun, thanks for the suggestions on good VD guns. I'll look into those, but I don't want to go down to a .22lr. I want something powerful enough to go through my door and still have enough energy to stop them. (not trying to sound mall ninja or hollywood, just practical)

    And like stated earlier, I don't want to do anything to hinder me from serving our country. I'm going to make extra sure everything I'm doing is legal before hand.
    I figured a .22LR wouldn't be a good choice anyway. The Mini-14's, if you can find one really cheap firesa .223 which is common, just a little on the expensive side, but at an overall length of 38" for the longest Mini-14 (excluding the target models) and 34" with the ATI stock model (if the stock is compressed in all the way). It makes a great short but legal rifle to carry in the vehicle.

    With all that said, if you use a shotgun, keep the type of ammunition close in mind. Obviously, you don't want to try and shoot buckshot through your door, at least I don't suspect it will do to well for your defense. Slugs and buckshot.

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    tekshogun wrote:
    Seniordep2010 wrote:
    Tekshogun, thanks for the suggestions on good VD guns. I'll look into those, but I don't want to go down to a .22lr. I want something powerful enough to go through my door and still have enough energy to stop them. (not trying to sound mall ninja or hollywood, just practical)

    And like stated earlier, I don't want to do anything to hinder me from serving our country. I'm going to make extra sure everything I'm doing is legal before hand.
    I figured a .22LR wouldn't be a good choice anyway. The Mini-14's, if you can find one really cheap firesa .223 which is common, just a little on the expensive side, but at an overall length of 38" for the longest Mini-14 (excluding the target models) and 34" with the ATI stock model (if the stock is compressed in all the way). It makes a great short but legal rifle to carry in the vehicle.

    With all that said, if you use a shotgun, keep the type of ammunition close in mind. Obviously, you don't want to try and shoot buckshot through your door, at least I don't suspect it will do to well for your defense. Slugs and buckshot.

    Are you saying the buckshot wouldn't have enough energy after it passes through the door? I could try slugs but I think that would penetrate far too much. If I just fired through the window at that distance it would pass right through the BG and into what ever is behind him.

    What kind of shotgun ammo would everyone suggest?

    Also what brands/models would you suggest for the Mini-14? The only ones I've seen were $500-600.


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    I was just thinking about this whole thing. If I did decide to use a shotgun for VD, how would I secure it when I go into a store? I know people will say get one of those "police style" clamp lock thingies. But other that that, what are my options?

    I can't access my trunk from inside the vehicle, and even if I could it would hard to do that discretely. Some may say to lock it to the seat frame and throw a coat over it, but I'm sure sure about that either. And of course, the best thing I could think of is to lock it in the trunk.

    I don't like the fact that if I get a "police style" clamp lock anyone that walks past my car in a parking lot can see it. They may bust the window just to give it a try and take it.

    Putting it in the trunk sound good, in theory. But I would have to get out of the car, shotgun in hand and take it to the back of the car. Not only could I get a brandishing of armed to the terror of the public, but some may see me put it in there and say..."hmmm....let's see if I can get that out". All they would have to do it bust the window, and pop the trunk and there it is. I mean I could try to chain it to the spare tire or something else, but come on.

    Atleast with a pistol I could lock it in the glove compartment while away from the car, or get a lock box bolted to the floor or something.

    Again I'm rambling, but someone got some advice?

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    Seniordep2010 wrote:
    Are you saying the buckshot wouldn't have enough energy after it passes through the door? I could try slugs but I think that would penetrate far too much. If I just fired through the window at that distance it would pass right through the BG and into what ever is behind him.
    Oh man, that is my Internet Dyslexia getting the better of me again. What I meant to say was birdshot, that is not good to load in your gun BECAUSE you feel you may have to shoot the door (and that may be a situation you're in. I can't imagine birdshot passing through a windshield too well either (at least some loads of birdshot). I don't know the effect of birdshot in all situations.

    What kind of shotgun ammo would everyone suggest?
    What I did say, buckshot, and maybe even slugs, but I know little about slug ammunition, you may want to stay away from that. At close range (say, 25 years and under) the spread of most buckshot is close enough to be effective most of the time, just be wary of what is behind and to the side of what you're shooting at if firing at distance.

    Also what brands/models would you suggest for the Mini-14? The only ones I've seen were $500-600.
    Yeah, this is wishful thinking. As far as I know, the only people that make Mini-14's (small versions of the beautiful M-14) is Ruger. They'll be pricey and I'd like to know where you saw any for $500 to $600 as I am interested.

    Seniordep2010 wrote:
    I was just thinking about this whole thing. If I did decide to use a shotgun for VD, how would I secure it when I go into a store? I know people will say get one of those "police style" clamp lock thingies. But other that that, what are my options?
    I think in my first post, I mentioned some type of locking mechanism whether you are using a rifle or shotgun. The police style locks, such as the ones that mount in their center console are a little finicky form what I'm told but if you plan to unlock the gun when you get back in the vehicle, they may be fine. You can also consider using your gun locks (the cable locks) as a way to anchor the gun to your vehicle such as where the seat mounts to the floorboard or some other hard-fixed-immovable object. Consider modifying your vehicle as well. You can also consider some other options police use such as overhead shotgun mounts.

    Here is an example of what I'm talking about, expensive, but it shows there are options and you may find systems that are cheaper or more expensive or you may get ideas to make or retrofit your own system: http://www.swps.com/progunmounra1.html

    They even have systems that have foot releases so you can leave the shotgun mounted and when you need it, you can release it with the simple motion of your foot pressing down or moving a latch.

    I can't access my trunk from inside the vehicle, and even if I could it would hard to do that discretely. Some may say to lock it to the seat frame and throw a coat over it, but I'm sure sure about that either. And of course, the best thing I could think of is to lock it in the trunk.
    I made a comment again about accessing your trunk but I took it out after reading this. Well, if you want to be discrete, taking the gun out of the cab of your car and placing it into the trunk won't work. Placing coat or anything over the gun is concealment and if you're caught doing it, you'll likely be arrested and charged accordingly. You'll have to consider the risk of a visible gun. Most importantly, if you follow through with this, make sure it is WELL SECURED (as well as anything else valuable in your vehicle.

    I don't like the fact that if I get a "police style" clamp lock anyone that walks past my car in a parking lot can see it. They may bust the window just to give it a try and take it.
    Yep, the risk factor. If you can keep it unconcealed but "out of general sight" as you said before, it fits well in the console, can it be seen easily from outside of the car (such as someone right up against a window?).

    Atleast with a pistol I could lock it in the glove compartment while away from the car, or get a lock box bolted to the floor or something.
    Concealment. Illegal in your case.

    Even if you argue that you're not in the car while the gun is concealed, the act of and being in the presence of the gun while you conceal it in your vehicle is in fact concealment since even for a brief moment you are within reach of and have access to use the gun.

    Again I'm rambling, but someone got some advice?
    Eh, you're good.

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    For a 9mm carbine you could try http://www.hi-pointfirearms.com/
    They have one for about $300.00. They are heavy but would work for a car gun.

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    Look in to a Taurus Judge. It shoots both .410 and .45. I am saving up for one for my car defense. They are flying off the shelves here in Ar.
    Don't confuse me with the facts, I have my emotions!

    I guess that's the difference between no crime and "stopping" a crime in progress. I prefer no crime.

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    Thanks alot tekshogun! You gave me some really good ideas and information. I guess you're right about the concealment part though.

    I could unload it and lock it in the trunk though right? Maybe in one of those small safes fixed to the inside of the vehicle? As long as it's not concealed from the time I get out to put it in my trunk I guess it would be ok. I could still be discrete with such a small gun.



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    Ruger9mm wrote:
    For a 9mm carbine you could try http://www.hi-pointfirearms.com/
    They have one for about $300.00. They are heavy but would work for a car gun.
    [/quote][/quote]

    Great idea! Seniordep2010, you should definitely consider Hi-Point's carbines. I forgot abou them. They're as ugly as warthogs but they are well designed firearms and use common handgun ammunition.

    Packer fan wrote:
    Look in to a Taurus Judge. It shoots both .410 and .45. I am saving up for one for my car defense. They are flying off the shelves here in Ar.
    Although one could be found in his price range (in the extreme upper range), it is still a handgun.

    Seniordep2010 wrote:
    Thanks alot tekshogun! You gave me some really good ideas and information. I guess you're right about the concealment part though.

    I could unload it and lock it in the trunk though right? Maybe in one of those small safes fixed to the inside of the vehicle? As long as it's not concealed from the time I get out to put it in my trunk I guess it would be ok. I could still be discrete with such a small gun.
    Yes, you can unload it and lock it in the trunk, the trunk = not concealed. Yeah, you want to avoid any possibility of you getting squeezed on concealing it. I would like to say though, placing the shotgun in a carrying case, bag or something of the sort made to carry the shotgun and then placing it in the trunk may not be considered concealment as you are merely transporting the weapon from one place (in the open) to another (the trunk) in a safe and "inaccessible" fashion such as if you were carrying the gun from a hunting or sport shooting location, it was in the open, you bagged it, and then carried it to the vehicle for storage (in the trunk).

    The laws are vague on that, I would talk to your local PD. I wouldn't exactly tell them what you're doing, just to clear up any (is carrying my shotgun in a carrying case in the cab of my car considered concealment or carrying to be placed in the trunk concealment (before it gets to the trunk)?

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    I've thought about a carbine, but the problem is the ammo. For one it's kind of hard to find handgun ammo these days, you just gotta get lucky. And I can't buy the ammo myself, which isn't so much a problem just an inconvenience I guess.

    That being said, I think I'm going to get a shotgun. I'm planning on going out tomorrow to look for one. :celebrate

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    Get a darn handgun and be done with it. It's legal and trying to wield a long in a car would be difficult at best.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

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    Seniordep2010 wrote:
    Short version: Need gun for vehicle defense.
    http://splodetv.com/suv-minigun-surprise

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    That'll do it! I'm installing it tomorrow. :celebrate

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