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Thread: Examiner - Virginia and New Mexico expected to repeal gun carry bans in alcohol serving restaurants

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    Please SUBSCRIBE to this column at http://www.examiner.com/x-2782-DC-Gun-Rights-Examiner

    And DIGG and REDDIT the article at http://www.examiner.com/x-2782-DC-Gun-Rights-Examiner~y2010m1d5-Virginia-and-New-Mexico-expected-to-repeal-gun-carry-bans-in-alcohol-serving-restaurants


    SNIP


    If bill sponsors and gun owners get their way in Virginia and New Mexico this year they will be able to carry concealed handguns inside alcohol serving restaurants just like they already do in public shopping malls, movie theaters, and most other public places. . . . Should both bills pass, there will be only 7 states left still banning handgun carry in alcohol serving eateries.


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    Activist Member Wolf_shadow's Avatar
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    This needs to go through. This should have been done already in VA. Kane vetoed the restaurant bill last for us low life CHP holders but thinks its ok for Assistant States Attorneys.
    Yes I carry a Bible and a Gun, your point.
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    Mike, your map is incorrect on Tennessee. Due to an (IMO) idiotic decision from a leftist judge, our returaunt carry law was declared unconstitutionally vague.

    Appeals by the Atty General are expected, but maybe not before the original bill sponsor rewrites the law.

    Keep your fingers crossed for us.

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    WCrawford wrote:
    Mike, your map is incorrect on Tennessee. Due to an (IMO) idiotic decision from a leftist judge, our returaunt carry law was declared unconstitutionally vague.
    But is the decision not stayed pending appeal?

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    Regular Member Sonora Rebel's Avatar
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    A gun is a gun is a gun is a gun... open or concealed it's still a freakin' GUN! What's the difference concealed or open? Like people who CC don't drink too? Gimme a break! I know better. One thingI hope this does is get rid of that goofy 'gun in convience store' thing that NM's has. Even if they sell for consumption off-site. 'Get's a lotta people in the jackpot just tryin' to pay for gas or get a cup of coffee. 'Silly stuff.

    Better to have your pistol on you than in your vehicle anyway. 'Some criminal yo-yo steals your vehicle... now they've got a gun too. Yeah... that makes sense. NOT! So... now the restaurant owners are just gonna put up 'No Weapons' signs 'n what's changed? If they don't frisk you on entry... Who's to know? Much clutter-flutter 'bout what should'a been common sense to begin with.

    Then people start talkin' like lawyers. Perused the California group at anytime? They all sound like Dershowitz's with that gobbledegook lawyerspeak just to UOC or ULOC... whatever good that does.It's all BS'clutter' that does nothing but obfuscatewhat should be simple and obvious. But... there's shyster schmucks in $3G suits who make a livingby creating the greatest amount of clutter possible. The gun does nothing. It's all about the operator... the bearer... and personal responsibility. Some have it... some don't. You cannot legislate human behavior.

    Personally... I'd rather see OC in any bar or restaurant. 'Least you know who's honest.

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    Mike wrote:
    WCrawford wrote:
    Mike, your map is incorrect on Tennessee. Due to an (IMO) idiotic decision from a leftist judge, our returaunt carry law was declared unconstitutionally vague.
    But is the decision not stayed pending appeal?
    No, it is not stayed. I mentioned Chancellor Bonnyman's decision in a comment to the article at the URL, and said Tennessee needed to be returned to "Carry Banned" on the map.
    If the public are bound to yield obedience to laws to which they cannot give their approbation, they are slaves to those who make such laws and enforce them.--Samuel Adams as Candidus, Boston Gazette 20 Jan. 1772

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    Is there a copy of the TN court decision online somewhere?

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    Mike wrote:
    Is there a copy of the TN court decision online somewhere?
    Here you go:

    http://www.tfaonline.org/downloads/restaurantruling.pdf

    And, from the state's website:

    http://www.tennessee.gov/safety/handgunmain.htm
    If the public are bound to yield obedience to laws to which they cannot give their approbation, they are slaves to those who make such laws and enforce them.--Samuel Adams as Candidus, Boston Gazette 20 Jan. 1772

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    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    I sure hope this goes through. If you can drive a car with a beer in you, I bet most people can have a firearm not doing anything, just sitting in the holster, and be perfectly fine. I'm sure that inanimate object will be safer just sitting there than a person who is driving their car after one beer.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

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    Ohio's bill is scheduled to have a committee hearing Janurary 19th, so maybe we can get our bill passed before Virginia.

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    When does VA's bill get voted for (I mean voted on)? And how soon will it go into effect?

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    Problem (maybe). I just looked at the bill HB 106 (18.2-308 J-3) And I didn't see anything about this. J-3 appears to have been it (can't read it because it was marked thru) which has it listed as Prefiled and Offered for Jan. 13th. Has it been removed or something or did I just overlook or miss it?

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    Regular Member simmonsjoe's Avatar
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    9MM Owner wrote:
    Problem (maybe). I just looked at the bill HB 106 (18.2-308 J-3) And I didn't see anything about this. J-3 appears to have been it (can't read it because it was marked thru) which has it listed as Prefiled and Offered for Jan. 13th. Has it been removed or something or did I just overlook or miss it?
    ##cite##
    HB 106 Concealed handguns; person with valid permit allowed to carry in place of worship with permission.
    Mark L. Cole | all patrons ... notes
    | add to my profiles another bill? Log in LIS Home - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Bills & Resolutions Members Committees Meetings Calendars Communications Minutes Statistics Lobbyist-in-a-Box [line] Summary as introduced:
    Carrying concealed handguns. Allows a person with a valid concealed handgun permit to carry a concealed handgun in a place of worship with permission of the leader of the religious meeting. The bill also eliminates the restriction against carrying a concealed handgun in a restaurant that serves alcohol. Full text:
    01/05/10 House: Prefiled and ordered printed; offered 01/13/10 10100918D pdf

    Status:
    01/05/10 House: Prefiled and ordered printed; offered 01/13/10 10100918D
    01/05/10 House: Referred to Committee on Militia, Police and Public Safety
    [line]##endcite##

    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...?101+sum+HB106

    You overlooked it. It is tagged on at the end. I made it nice and visible for you. Below is from the FULL TEXT

    [...]shall be ineligible to apply for a concealed handgun permit for a period of five years. J2. An individual who has a felony charge pending or a charge pending for an offense listed in subdivision E 14 or E 15, holding a permit for a concealed handgun, may have the permit suspended by the court before which such charge is pending or by the court that issued the permit.
    J3. No person shall carry a concealed handgun onto the premises of any restaurant or club as defined in � 4.1-100 for which a license to sell and serve alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption has been granted by the Virginia Alcoholic Beverage Control Board under Title 4.1 of the Code of Virginia; however, nothing herein shall prohibit any sworn law-enforcement officer or any retired law-enforcement officer who meets the definition of a "qualified retired law-enforcement officer" pursuant to 18 U.S.C. � 926C and is carrying the identification required by such statute from carrying a concealed handgun on the premises of such restaurant or club or any owner or event sponsor or his employees from carrying a concealed handgun while on duty at such restaurant or club if such person has a concealed handgun permit.
    J4. The court shall revoke the permit of any individual for whom it would be unlawful to purchase, possess or transport a firearm under � 18.2-308.1:2 or 18.2-308.1:3, and shall promptly notify the State Police and the person whose permit was revoked of the revocation.
    K. No fee shall be charged for the issuance of such permit to a person who has retired from service (i) as a magistrate in the Commonwealth; (ii) as a special agent with the A[...]

    EVERYTHING IN ORANGE HAS A LINE THROUGH IT, WHICH THE FORUMS FORMATTING WONT PASTE. (line through it means proposal deletes it)
    illegal ≠ immoral legal ≠ moral
    [SIZE=1]"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself. "Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent." - Thomas Jefferson
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    Regular Member Alexcabbie's Avatar
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    This is good, as now it will be possible to go to a nice "jacket and tie required" place without having to hike your jacket up over the pistol to expose it and looking like an idiot. And it will be easier to tell to whom to give our custom when they HAVE to post signs. Only thing is, those signs might wind up helping BGs target unarmed folks.

    Meanwhile I hope myboyhood homestate of Ohio (I was born in Indiana so It's not my native state) also passes sane restaurant carry legislation. Right now, bars and restaurants mostly post the notice over the darn bar, where you don't see it until you are already inside. At which time, of course, you are a felon.

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    simmonsjoe wrote:
    9MM Owner wrote:
    Problem (maybe). I just looked at the bill HB 106 (18.2-308 J-3) And I didn't see anything about this. J-3 appears to have been it (can't read it because it was marked thru) which has it listed as Prefiled and Offered for Jan. 13th. Has it been removed or something or did I just overlook or miss it?
    ##cite##
    HB 106 Concealed handguns; person with valid permit allowed to carry in place of worship with permission.
    Mark L. Cole | all patrons ... notes
    | add to my profiles another bill? Log in LIS Home - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Bills & Resolutions Members Committees Meetings Calendars Communications Minutes Statistics Lobbyist-in-a-Box
    [line]
    Summary as introduced:
    Carrying concealed handguns. Allows a person with a valid concealed handgun permit to carry a concealed handgun in a place of worship with permission of the leader of the religious meeting. The bill also eliminates the restriction against carrying a concealed handgun in a restaurant that serves alcohol. Full text:
    01/05/10 House: Prefiled and ordered printed; offered 01/13/10 10100918D pdf

    Status:
    01/05/10 House: Prefiled and ordered printed; offered 01/13/10 10100918D
    01/05/10 House: Referred to Committee on Militia, Police and Public Safety

    [line]
    ##endcite##

    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...?101+sum+HB106

    You overlooked it. It is tagged on at the end. I made it nice and visible for you. Below is from the FULL TEXT

    [...]shall be ineligible to apply for a concealed handgun permit for a period of five years. J2. An individual who has a felony charge pending or a charge pending for an offense listed in subdivision E 14 or E 15, holding a permit for a concealed handgun, may have the permit suspended by the court before which such charge is pending or by the court that issued the permit.
    J3. No person shall carry a concealed handgun onto the premises of any restaurant or club as defined in � 4.1-100 for which a license to sell and serve alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption has been granted by the Virginia Alcoholic Beverage Control Board under Title 4.1 of the Code of Virginia; however, nothing herein shall prohibit any sworn law-enforcement officer or any retired law-enforcement officer who meets the definition of a "qualified retired law-enforcement officer" pursuant to 18 U.S.C. � 926C and is carrying the identification required by such statute from carrying a concealed handgun on the premises of such restaurant or club or any owner or event sponsor or his employees from carrying a concealed handgun while on duty at such restaurant or club if such person has a concealed handgun permit.
    J4. The court shall revoke the permit of any individual for whom it would be unlawful to purchase, possess or transport a firearm under � 18.2-308.1:2 or 18.2-308.1:3, and shall promptly notify the State Police and the person whose permit was revoked of the revocation.
    K. No fee shall be charged for the issuance of such permit to a person who has retired from service (i) as a magistrate in the Commonwealth; (ii) as a special agent with the A[...]

    EVERYTHING IN ORANGE HAS A LINE THROUGH IT, WHICH THE FORUMS FORMATTING WONT PASTE. (line through it means proposal deletes it)
    Thanks for finding and clearing it up for me.

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    falcon1 wrote:
    Mike wrote:
    Is there a copy of the TN court decision online somewhere?
    Here you go:

    http://www.tfaonline.org/downloads/restaurantruling.pdf

    And, from the state's website:

    http://www.tennessee.gov/safety/handgunmain.htm
    Well, I read the bench ruling transcript - the definition of a restaurant is unconstitutonally vague - I agree - so are many gun control laws - and when this happens the normal remedy is dismissal of the criminal charge, not repeal of a bill - I read the bench ruling as most likley just barring prosecution for folks to carry at restaurants who do not regulary serve meals!

    But mybe I am wrong - Is there any other court order or AG opinion or other szource of law which indictaes that one cannot carry in TN restaurants serving alcohol?

    Hmmmmm.

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    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Here's a law which needs passing in all 50 states: "...the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed."

    Seems to make a lot of sense, too.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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