Court Says Wash. Felony Inmates Should Get To Vote

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DEROS72 wrote:

Honestly I do think there is potentially a felonclassthat should have a chance at restoration of rights .Someone busted on possesion perhaps and ,gets out and lives a clean life for example as long as no on got hurt. I do believe some are worthy of a second chance.I have a hard time with violent offenders.Yeah they could easily get a gun on the street but why make it easier by allowing them to just go in and buy one.I'm sorry I am not getting the logic.

Convince me guys ,I don't understand why a felon that commits a violent crime maybe shoots someone in the commission of that crime should have the right to buy firearms ...ever. Or some poor gal beaten and raped at gunpoint .I for ex have the right to bear arms as I have never comitted a crime.As you all do as well.At the very least it should be on a case by case basis.Someone is a repeat offender I just don't see it.

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I was specifically trying to get you to point out that there are definite degrees of felony: violent and non. It's my opinion that the large majority of non violent felonies should not be felonies, either gross misdemeanors or another class of crime. The question regarding Gottlieb is because he is a felon with restored firearms rights, something which has largely disappeared.

Instead of convincing you - I don't think that someone who has committed such a crime should be released back into public until such time they are okay to be citizens of the USA again. At that point, they have served their punishment, carried out their sentence, and again have the rights and privileges of a citizen of the United States. This, however, requires a number of things you dislike to either be legal or much less of a punishment. It's one of the reasons I repeatedly bring up current drug laws and policy as an example of a bad idea. Those "dealers" are no worse than any alcohol or tobacco company in pushing addictive substances. The only difference is that one is a sanctioned form of activity, the other is not.

I also disagree with your premise that the Bill of Rights doesn't guarantee the right of the individual to choose what they wish to put into their body. The ninth amendment states that the enumeration of certain rights shall not be used to deny or disparage any other rights retained by the people. Of these rights are the right to travel, to self-determination, etc. In essence, something need not explicitly appear in the Constitution for it to be a Constitutionally protected right. As such, things should be much more of a "free for all" than you would otherwise state. That includes the right to destroy ones' self with meth, heroin, et cetera, so long as in doing so, you do not bring harm to another (parents who neglect their children, addicts who steal for more drugs, et cetera).

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Not for convicted violent criminals that have already been convicted by said due process.They by their actions and choices have violently infringed on the rights of law abiding citizens and forfeit those rights.They didn't care about the rights of their victims. I am in fact a patriot. And you have done what in the service of this country?

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deros No, wrong again, the felon was convicted of what ever crime he did. The suspention of his right was a part of the sentence automaticly ,by an unlawful law perpetuated by an unlegal congress.When the felon was released after paying for his crime he is a free man with all rights you have,until he has due process to remove his rights. Hehas a right to keep and bear arms.

Ohand patriot,Not . I served in the 264 trans. company,first logistic U.S. ARMY,1967-1968 as a steevadore(mostly bombs and artillery shells ) in the water in Quin yon harbor. BE SURE ,WHEN I TOOK MY OATH TO DEFEND THE CONSTITUTIONI MEANT IT.

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Very Good, 75th Rangers and 1st Cav airmobile Vietnam republic of.I also defend the Constitution.

You do make a point! If a car shoplifter or petty thief gets out of jail yeah give him his rights back .I would say in the case ofviolent offenders and repeat offenders convicted by due process, that they never get out of jail ...ever Norhave a chance to do so.Like I said most can't get a job so they go back to crime.

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deros So don't let them out of jail!!! On the other hand the felon is released and he has the same rights as you do until the government gives him his due process and take his GOD given right to keep and bear arms.

How would you feel if this felon is a clerk in a 7/ 11 and a bad guy comes in to rob the place and decides to rape your little girl in the back room. And just suppose the previous clerk on duty forgot to take his revolver from behind the counterat the end of his shift.

Would you expect the felon to possibly face conviction for using the gun or run?( don't second guess me on facts or weaselaround thelittle story I manufactored) It's just to make a point.

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The Constitution is The Constitution. Period. A Person DOES NOT lose their Constituional Rights for anything! Regardless of what they do!

For some this may be hard to understand, but our Fore Fathers were abdunatly clear!

No one should never lose their Rights, regardless of what they have done!

'...The Right of People to Keep and Bear Arms SHALL NOT be infringed.'

These were the words of our Fore Fathers, and quite frankly I do not see anything about whether or not one is a convicted Felon or not!

Perhaps we should too pass Laws that say: Convicted Felons can not have their Freedom of Speech, therefore, we should cut their tongues out. How about... Convicted Felons should not have Freedom of the Press, therefore, we should cut their hands off too. Convicted Felon huh... NO BIBLE FOR YOU!

These too, sound like good additions, senseless ones if you ask me, to our Convicted Felon Laws when it comes to Firearms/Voting/etc.

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aadvark, Finally a man that thinks logically witha burning desire to be a freeman and not a slave!

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Not only does a convicted felon who had paid his debt to society lose 2A rights, the spouse essentially loses 2A rights as well.A Bremerton man who broke into a school in 1990 is on trial in Kitsap County after calling 911 to report that his house was broken into. He was arrested because his wife owned two guns. Read about it here.

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I would like to point out that Muhammad Shabazz Farrakhan is Nation of Islam, probably one of the most violent groups in the U.S. The "Zebra killings" that were run out of Mosque #16 in San Francisco, along with over 270 unsolved murders all linked to NOI, usually campers and hikers. All the murders involved blacks hunting down and killing Whites.

They ran a game for points to become a "Death Angel". 15 points I think was the number. 2 points for killing a White man, 4 for killing a White woman and 6 points for killing White children.

The book "Zebra" by Howard is a good read, if you can stomach what these NOI members intend for you and me.

At one point just out of Mosque #16 there were 17 Death Angels, you do the math.

It is currently unknown how many Death Angels are still active, though the "Smilely face" Killings were almost certainly Death Angel graduations. NOI keeps its Military arm "The Fruit of Islam" under careful cover, though I have seen some Youtube videos of paramilitary training and urban warfare training along with youth movements.

Another interesting note, over 140 "The Fruit of Islam" soldiers acted as bodyguards for Rev. Wright when he spoke at the Hotel in Washington D.C., probably the most I have ever seen in one area.

Here is some of their Drill team, their "Public Face".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXal1CGaISQ

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I personally don't see why everyone can't vote? I also think EVERYONE should vote, fined if you don't like in other countries.

There are way more criminals walking about than in prison.

Just because a criminal has spent time in prison and been released, why is ok for that person to vote? Same people.

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except From Dave Workmans column another reason why convicted violent offenders should not be allowed guns....also shows gun bans do nothing but disarm good folk but human garbage like this still get them anyway and you guys think after his jail time he should be able to buy one.These kind of people don't care about anyones rights.

Let’s face it, 66-year-old Johnny Lee Wicks – the man who opened fire at a Las Vegas, Nev. federal building Monday, killing retired Las Vegas Police Sgt. Stanley Cooper, 72, who was working as a security guard – was living proof of the abject failure of gun control laws.

[size= Wicks, according to the [i]Washington Times[/i], had a criminal background that included murder and drug charges in Memphis, Tenn., in the 1970s and assault and rape charges 20 years ago in California. He did time in prison for killing his own brother in March 1974, a sentence that originally was set at 55 years but was reduced to 12 to 15 years after an appeal, according to the Las Vegas Review Journal.]
[size= Bottom line: Wicks was a guy who should not have had a 12-gauge Mossberg shotgun, or any other kind of firearm, and while this incident will certainly fuel the argument that “weak gun laws” and “easy access to firearms” are to blame, there is a much different perspective that gun control proponents simply and routinely ignore.]
[size=


Murder ,assault rape etc and you guys think he should have rights..Just proves to me we should never ,ever let these people out of jail .

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BrenTenSometimes I miss the point., such as now. What are yousaying? Are you in favor of freedom or the side oftaking rights away illegally.In other words does a felon that has paid the priceaccording to the the legislature and judgerevert backtoa freeman upon his release?

That is what I'm saying. Look, Sammy the Bull (under boss of Gott'ys crime family)admitted to eleven premeditated murders and received a sentence of five years in an agreed plea agreement to put John Gotty away for life.

Far for me to Monday quarterback on this but thoseare the facts.Why didn't the feds take his gun rights away with due process andup holdthe constitution for all of us. It would give me a warm fluffy feeling to see the law up held.

Do you agree with that!!

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deros. Here's a book and the great pooba Workman should read(Three Felonies a Day: How the Feds Target the Innocent , harvey silverglate) Guaranteed to scare the hell out of you.

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aadvark wrote:

The Constitution is The Constitution. Period. A Person DOES NOT lose their Constituional Rights for anything! Regardless of what they do!

For some this may be hard to understand, but our Fore Fathers were abdunatly clear!

No one should never lose their Rights, regardless of what they have done!

'...The Right of People to Keep and Bear Arms SHALL NOT be infringed.'

These were the words of our Fore Fathers, and quite frankly I do not see anything about whether or not one is a convicted Felon or not!

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Your standard doesn't past scrutiny or observational muster. By that stroke, the founders would have never had jails where they restricted people for engaging in activities that violated the rules of their society. The fact is, a person CAN be deprived of LIFE, LIBERTY, or PROPERTY through due process of law. Liberty includes those rights and privileges secured by the Constitution. At the time you break the law to a degree you are imprisoned, you lose some of your liberties, among them the right to keep and bear arms.

My beef is that, once you're out, you should be re-granted your life, liberty, and pursuit of property. Else, you have not served the sentence given. This can be problematic with mandatory minimum sentences and "war on ____" hardliners, because you end up with an unsustainable system that doesn't punish the true crimes of society. In an effort to regulate behavior they find uncouth and undesirable, the people who support the war on drugs, mandatory long prison sentences with no chance of civil reintegration, etc, create the very revolving door system they rail against.

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The fact is, a person CAN be deprived of LIFE, LIBERTY, or PROPERTY through due process of law.

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Good point. Having the state take one's life seems like a more extreme "taking" than forfieture of one's RTBA's.

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erps. It sure is ,that's why I'm against the death penalty. It's a sure way to punish the evil doer. The trouble is I don't trust the government to do a fair and equitable job of punishing the evil doer with death. In the Innocent Project these fine people have found more than 250 death row inmatesor convicted rapist to be innocent due to DNA evidence. In most instances a procedure not in existence when convicted.

Were talking about guys in prison for seven years up to 35 years and are or have been proven to be innocent. I can't imagine being in prison for 35 years knowing I'm innocent. How many have come to their death knowing, screaming I didn't do it and have it fall on deaf ears.

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erps. It sure is ,that's why I'm against the death penalty. It's a sure way to punish the evil doer. The trouble is I don't trust the government to do a fair and equitable job of punishing the evil doer with death.

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I hear you and I've gone from being a supporter of the death penalty to sitting on the fence right now.

Back to felons, I'm pretty sure that when a subject is found guilty of a felony (due process) they are typically advised that part of the punishment is forfeiture of their RTBA's. When they get out, they can petition the courts to have those rights restored as mentioned in this article:

http://www.examiner.com/x-2206-Clev...ights-to-felon-some-worry-about-precedent-set

My next question is for the folks with the opinion that it is illegal to deny anyone their RTBA's because it is an existing right, do you recognize Canada's right to restrict your rights when you go to their country? Just wondering?

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erps. Canada has the sameright to be as stupid asmy sister in law in regards to gun control or any other criteritia they, she wish to ingage in ,in thier own home.

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We can argue this all day long.I do agree with those to an extent that currently our own government(liberal progressives)is the danger to all of our rights.Right now the rights of convicted criminals don't concern me.They made their choice.Here is a post by triggerdr on another thread that I believe is one of our biggest threats.This is where we best remain united ....against this sh,,t



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDMeDmV0ufU]



or this....http://www.eutimes.net/2009/12/us-fo...ican-citizens/

“There is an event coming in the very near-term future that is going to effect the USA to its very soul,” former Kansas State Trooper Greg Everson of The Heartland USA and former host of Republic Broadcasting “Voices from the Heartland” told host Steve Quayle in a special two hour “Survive 2 Thrive” broadcast Thursday.

“What is being planned and what is coming together is a perfect storm brewing right over our heads.” Everson cited verifiable information confirmed by an active duty US Air Force Colonel, three chiefs of Police, a local Sheriff, State Troopers in 3 neighboring Midwest states and a Federal agent he has known for twenty years.

“There is being made an effort to bring together the Armed Forces of this Nation in preparation for responding to and acting against the interests of our Citizens,” Everson said. Such efforts include actions that will be so deep and penetrating that the United States will never be the same. Everson explained that the deteriorating economy combined with Federal Reserve theft of trillions unaccounted for has had a devastating effect on Americans who had have enough and the US Military expects will respond by defending what little they have left.

“The American people have reached the point of total saturation due to the failure of Government to protect its borders, corruption and theft.” Everson expects that such a response has been projected by US Government computer models and believes NORTHCOM, DHS and state and local authorities will begin implementation of Operation Garden Plot and Martial Law within 45-60 days. “Civil war is precisely what this administration wants to happen,” said Everson. “And before Americans can organize themselves they will be destroyed by their own military.”

The first signs of pacification by our own forces will not only be convoys rolling through city streets and small towns throughout the Country, but direct military action against pre-targeted areas. Data acquired in the past year by “Census workers” has been used to program military targeting computers which our own armed forces will use in the unthinkable task of fighting its own citizenry.

“It is a formula for unmitigated disaster regardless of Copenhagen, Health Care reform or anything coming from Capitol Hill,” Everson said. Steve Quayle noted his own sources who say as many as 50 million Americans are likely to be killed with gun owners, veterans and the more visible dissenters the most likely targets of deadly force. More “liberal” areas that pose minimal resistance would likely be pacified using lesser means.

One of Everson’s’ sources was quoted as having said “We have plans that if it gets bad enough we will simply commence yard farming,” (a military reference for targeted air strikes) on neighborhoods and communities in cities and states where heavy resistance is expected. A tactic designed to destroy both the enemy and the area(s) under and around the enemy. Everson suggests such horrifying events could possibly coincide with an invasion by the Chinese from the west and Mexico from the south. In any case, military, law enforcement and civilian casualties could be enormous.

During the two hour broadcast Quayle received an e-mail message from an undisclosed US Military source that a last minute, unscheduled meeting of Saturday December 5 has been called for all unit commanders in the region to present readiness status reports. States in the Region include Ohio, Michigan, Indiana, Kentucky, Illinois and Tennessee.

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dang wrote:

erps. It sure is ,that's why I'm against the death penalty. It's a sure way to punish the evil doer. The trouble is I don't trust the government to do a fair and equitable job of punishing the evil doer with death. In the Innocent Project these fine people have found more than 250 death row inmatesor convicted rapist to be innocent due to DNA evidence. In most instances a procedure not in existence when convicted.

Were talking about guys in prison for seven years up to 35 years and are or have been proven to be innocent. I can't imagine being in prison for 35 years knowing I'm innocent. How many have come to their death knowing, screaming I didn't do it and have it fall on deaf ears.

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The death penalty isn't meant as a punishment, its a preventative measure.