Open Carry discussion with Law Enforcement

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Ok, this is another brother-in-law post, but he and I were having a discussion regarding open vs concealed carry (he is a proponent of the latter and not at all of the former).

He stated that he knows Springfield law enforcement personnel that occasionally work at a gun and supply store (that will remain anonymous) that have stated to him that they can detain and arrest anyone that they see carrying openly for public safety reasons.

I called bull$h^t and asked him under what violation of which law would this be able to occur. He stated that they have the duty to protect public safety and can put me in jail if I am seen openly carrying.

So I am turning to you guys. I have carried openly for some time, but have never had any discussion or confrontation with any law enforcement officer or even seen one close enough where they could possibly make out my firearm on my side.

Has anyone here had any discussion or confrontation? If so, what was the conversation like?

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i'm sure your lawyer would love to hear about this...i'm sure some of the higher ups at SPD would love to hear that as well.

There are no city ordinances that state OC is illegal in springfield.

...at least not while i lived there.

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You are correct, there are none (I have the regulations printed out and in my vehicle at all times just in case).

That is what I showed him and he said, "all I know is what I was told, so why chance it?".

I said, "why chance it? What do you mean?" I asked him what would happen if the police decided to suddenly begin saying that because you were out and about after 11:00 pm, they figured that you were probably up to no good, so had the right to stop, detain and possibly arrest you for public safety reasons?"

He said, well, that's different.

I told him there was no difference whatsoever.

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please tell me this LEO you are speaking of is one of the young probably freshly out of the academy completely overcome with power and authority.

on a serious note, i would express this and make it known to higher powers in the SPD of what their officers are saying.

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I recently talked to a younger new cop,he's been on the KCMO dept. for 4 years.He is aware of open carry being legal,he told me they do teach that,but some of the veterans dont like it and do their own thing.....you know being above the law and all....

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This is the very reason that I entered law enforcement. Your source on open carry needs to read his law books. On the other hand, to be arrested while not in violation of a law would probably enable you to retire.

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HYRYSC wrote:

That is what I showed him and he said, "all I know is what I was told, so why chance it?".

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"I was just following orders." Now where have I heard that before?

Ask your brother in law how he would like a big 'ol fat personnel jacket full of complaints and a lawsuit or two due to civil rights violations. Or how due to the city having to settle out of court because of his actions he'll be passed over for promotion and pay increases?

Tell him to look around on these very forums where dozens of citizens are now fighting back in court and reaping verdict after verdict against cops who were "just following orders."

Seriously, ask him what his oath was when he was sworn in an a police officer; then have your sister "cut him off" until he actually sees what a tool he's being!!!

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I plan on being in Springfield on the 18th. I was looking forward to OC as I can not in Ar. So what is see in your post I need to lawyer up before heading up there, eh.

Have you OC in Bass Pro or the Battlefield Mall? Is Bass Pro OC friendly? I know that when you take your gun into the range you need to check your gun at the door but what if you are in there just to shop?

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Packer fan wrote:

I plan on being in Springfield on the 18th. I was looking forward to OC as I can not in Ar. So what is see in your post I need to lawyer up before heading up there, eh.

Have you OC in Bass Pro or the Battlefield Mall? Is Bass Pro OC friendly? I know that when you take your gun into the range you need to check your gun at the door but what if you are in there just to shop?

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I have OC'ed in Bass Pro (I hate going to the mall, so never have OC'ed there). I never check my carry gun at the desk whether I am going there to the shooting range or there to shop regardless of whether I am OC'ing or CC'ing.

Chin Chin, thanks for your replies and I agree with you, however this was not my brother-in-law that was holding this opinion, it was a police officer acquaintance of his.

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I have OCed in Springfield several times, never had a problem. I understand that Springfield is an OC friendly town. Why check your gun at the door when you don't have to? And I understand that Bass Pro is OC Friendly.

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patriotthad wrote:

I have OCed in Springfield several times, never had a problem. I understand that Springfield is an OC friendly town. Why check your gun at the door when you don't have to? And I understand that Bass Pro is OC Friendly.

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I just OC in Springfield on the 18th. Not a person blinked an eye. I when to Hobby Lobby and a computer shop (I forget the name) across from Hobby Lobby and BK. I never made it to Bass Pro but the last time I was there my wife asked about taking our guns into the range and this is what they told her. We had to check our guns and they had to be encased until we get to the range.

I plan to go back in a few days and OC again. This time in Bass Pro.I just ran out of time. I am knew to OC and the only thing that makes me nerves is crowded places. CC nobody knows OC it's there for all to see. I'm still a bit nerves aboutOC but the more I do it the more I'll be relaxed I think.


Side note: I traveled all the way down to Ava and stopped in to a gas station to get gas and as I walked in the two clerks eyes got a little big.

Clerk: I can help you over her ( I walk over) Is that a gun?

Me: yes.
Clerk: cool.
Me: It's a Taurus Millennium Pro .40... (thinking she was about to ask me about the gun)

Clerk: Where's your badge? (as I was telling her about the gun)

Me: I don't have one.

Clerk: Well you have a gun where's your badge?

Me: I don't have a badge I'm not a police officer and I don't need a badge. (she runs the till. I sign my John Hancock)

Clerk: Just tell me to mind my own business.

Me: That's OK You aren't bothering me. You see I'm from Ar and I can't OC there and I like to OC because if I ever need to, not that I want to, but ifI ever need to use it it is quicker to get to. (by this time both clerks were looking at me)

Clerk: (with big eyes) OH!

This has nothing to do with the topic.:uhoh:

Just from what I understood in the first post is Springfield LOE's harass people for OC.

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Bass Pro.

My understanding of Bass Pro's policy, is that if you want to go to the range, you must have firearm encased etc. However, if you want to OC no regulation.

There is/are post(s) on Bass Pro's pro gun policy.

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patriotthad wrote:

Bass Pro.

My understanding of Bass Pro's policy, is that if you want to go to the range, you must have firearm encased etc. However, if you want to OC no regulation.

There is/are post(s) on Bass Pro's pro gun policy.

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That is correct. In fact, I telephoned and asked the Bass Pro personnel (firearms dept.) about that policy after seeing the other posts on this thread. I was told that as long as the gun stayed in the holster, there was no problem with either open or CCW inside the store. If you were hand carrying it in to shoot at the range, they will want to put it in a locked container for transportation to the range. This is just to avoid the image of a person walking the store carrying a firearm in hand, something that could understandably freak out customers, especially those from states like California, New York, Massachusetts, etc. where gun rights have been more restricted.

BTW--Thad, you're being sought on Missouricarry.com as a potential speaker at the Feb. 27 2nd Amendment rally on the Gateway Arch grounds. Nobody seems to know how to contact you and I've lost the email address you gave me at the West Plains meeting in the Red Apple Grill.

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HYRYSC wrote:

Ok, this is another brother-in-law post, but he and I were having a discussion regarding open vs concealed carry (he is a proponent of the latter and not at all of the former).

He stated that he knows Springfield law enforcement personnel that occasionally work at a gun and supply store (that will remain anonymous) that have stated to him that they can detain and arrest anyone that they see carrying openly for public safety reasons.

I called bull$h^t and asked him under what violation of which law would this be able to occur. He stated that they have the duty to protect public safety and can put me in jail if I am seen openly carrying.

So I am turning to you guys. I have carried openly for some time, but have never had any discussion or confrontation with any law enforcement officer or even seen one close enough where they could possibly make out my firearm on my side.

Has anyone here had any discussion or confrontation? If so, what was the conversation like?

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I don't know about this forum but I've seen many such discussions in http://www.missouricarry.com and I can say that they'd love it if you'd cross post this there. A large number of Springfield area gun store proprietors, employees, law enforcement personnel, and CCW instructors inhabit that forum. I can guarantee that you'll get responses and good advice.

I also wish you'd share with us the name of the gun shop where those cops allegedly work. A discreet letter or other contact with their superior(s), both at the police station and their moonlighting job at the gun store, would do wonders for protecting the freedoms of honest OC'ing folk they may encounter in the future. I've encountered LEOs in the past who were misinformed or who carried misimpressions away from their POST training. Politely and respectfully pointing out their error and providing documentation (always, always provide documentation) helps a lot.

I'm not suggesting that the topic be abandoned here on opencarry.org. I'm simply suggesting that if you also share it on missourcarry.com where you'll find a larger pool of knowledgeable respondents. If so, please share any responses you might get with us here on opencarry.org as well. The more shared knowledge, the more powerful we are.

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I have been contacted to speak at the Arch. I don't know if I will make it or not. I will have to see what my schedule will be then.

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I know this is off topic but I did traveled to Springfield again and OC the time there. I did go into Bass Pro and the lady at the front counter as you walke in looked right at my firearm and didn't say a thing. I could see her eyes get big at first but she quickly looked away. I was in the store for a few hours. I made other stops without any problems. Still wish I can OC here in Ar. My next plan is to go to West Plains. Maybe I can get the wife to OC there.

I'm not an activist just someone who likes or wants to OC.
Also can I cary in a gas station that sells alcohol?

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Packer fan wrote:

I know this is off topic but I did traveled to Springfield again and OC the time there. I did go into Bass Pro and the lady at the front counter as you walke in looked right at my firearm and didn't say a thing. I could see her eyes get big at first but she quickly looked away. I was in the store for a few hours. I made other stops without any problems. Still wish I can OC here in Ar. My next plan is to go to West Plains. Maybe I can get the wife to OC there.

I'm not an activist just someone who likes or wants to OC.
Also can I cary in a gas station that sells alcohol?

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Yeah, you can carry in a convenience store. The only prohibition (pun unintended) is on carrying in an establishment where alcohol is consumed on the premises and where at least 51% of the business' income is derived from alcohol sales. Package and convenience stores are okay for open or (licensed) concealed carry as are grocery or department stores (such as Wal-mart) which also sell alcohol.