Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 26

Thread: Accuracy and Movement

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Concord, California, USA
    Posts
    5

    Post imported post

    If you think you'llbring the barrel to eye level, aim, then coolysqueez off a round when the do-do is in the fan, leave the gun at home, you'll be dead.

    Go ask anyone who has ever been in a shoot out or combat, aiming ain't in the equation. You point the gunator about where you want to shoot, fire, then correct from there.You will, after about the first shot get the barrel to just below eye level. From thereyou will look over the top of the barrel and fire and correct the rest of the rounds, of until the incident is over.

    This is the reason automatic weapons are used, it gives you a type of shotgun affect without aiming. Aiming is for firing from cover.

    Also, the longer the barrel the longer radius when turning left or right. In a shooting situationevery millisecondis precious andcan work for you and against an adversary provided you act first and faster.

    A heavier handgun too will mitigate into speed of movement, think centrifical forceand energywhenspinning left or right.

  2. #2
    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Saginaw, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,756

    Post imported post

    Dangerous wrote:
    If you think you'llbring the barrel to eye level, aim, then coolysqueez off a round when the do-do is in the fan, leave the gun at home, you'll be dead.

    While it is true that most self defense situations do not lend themselves to allowing careful aim....... some do. And, many self defense situations are resolved with the gun being brought into the equation but not fired.

    Both of those considerations mean it is NOT a good idea to leave the gun home!!! Even if someone does think they will have the time to coolly squeeze off a round.

    Hence the advice you gave is very misleading... not to mention incorrect.

    Go ask anyone who has ever been in a shoot out or combat, aiming ain't in the equation. You point the gunator about where you want to shoot, fire, then correct from there.You will, after about the first shot get the barrel to just below eye level. From thereyou will look over the top of the barrel and fire and correct the rest of the rounds, of until the incident is over.

    Not quite true........ quite often "point shooting", where the the eye/mind focus is on the target and the sights are not consciously seen nor intentionally lined up, is used for self defense but it is NOT a "fire, then correct from there" kind of thing. Point shooting is a skill... a very teachable skill.. a skill that is a very valuable tool to have in any self defense "toolbox".

    Actually there is a "continuum" of self defense fire that starts out with very close point shooting up close to the attacker, then evolves to putting the front sight on desired point of impact as distance increases, then evolves to using both front and rear sights for a correct sight picture as distance increases more.


    This is the reason automatic weapons are used, it gives you a type of shotgun affect without aiming. Aiming is for firing from cover.

    Automatic weapons? Really? Perhaps you meant "semi automatic" weapons since automatic weapons are illegal?

    As for reserving aiming to firing from cover please see what I said above about the continuum of fire. Cover or concealment is not necessary for the proper use of the sights for aiming.

    Also, since the defender is responsible for where every bullet ends up, in the attacker or a miss that hits an innocent, it is imperative that the sights be used when possible to avoid having bullets miss......... whether cover/concealment is available or not.

    Also, the longer the barrel the longer radius when turning left or right. In a shooting situationevery millisecondis precious andcan work for you and against an adversary provided you act first and faster.

    Are you saying that a gun with a longer barrel will slow down the defender too much because the gun is unwieldy? Those milliseconds needed to move the gun to "track" the bad guy's movements you are referring to are meaningless compared to the 1 to 2 seconds it takes for the average person just to draw the gun from a holster.... even an openly carried holster... and drawing from concealed carry is slower than open carry draws.

    A heavier handgun too will mitigate into speed of movement, think centrifical forceand energywhenspinning left or right.

    Perhaps you are giving too much thought to the incorrect criteria? Worrying about milliseconds of gun movement pale in comparison to the concerns of:

    Having a gun.

    Having a gun that works ever time, all the time.

    Having a gun that the individual can control well enough to be reasonably accurate with. The weight of the gun can influence the ability to control recoil from shot to shot.

    Having a gun that is reasonably comfortable (light enough) enough so the person will actually carry it instead of leaving it home.

    And, most importantly, the individual spending time practicing, practicing, PRACTICING!, with the gun that the individual will be carrying.
    My reply is in red above........

    Oh... and there is really no such thing as "centrifugal force". What is thought of as "centrifugal force" is actually inertia... in that any object in motion will continue in motion unless some other force deflects it.

    Think of a bucket of water swung in a circle at the end of your arm. If you let go the bucket will go straight out from where you let go. The only thing keeping it going in a circle (deflecting it) is your arm. The "tug" you feel is not "centrifugal force" but is the inertia contained within the bucket of water trying to go straight instead of in a circle.

    From thefreedictionary.com:

    centrifugal forcen (Physics / General Physics) a fictitious force that can be thought of as acting outwards on any body that rotates or moves along a curved path

    centrifugal force
    An effect that seems to cause an object moving in a curve to be pushed away from the curve's center. Centrifugal force is not a true force but is actually the effect of inertia, in that the moving object's natural tendency is to move in a straight line.

    And the small amount of inertia contained within a self defense firearm isn't really much at all. Certainly not enough to cause extreme delays in movement, unless one is carrying an actual cannon or a trebuchette (sp?).
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

  3. #3
    Regular Member t33j's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    King George, VA
    Posts
    1,384

    Post imported post

    Bikenut wrote:
    Automatic weapons? Really? Perhaps you meant "semi automatic" weapons since automatic weapons are illegal?
    Maybe in your state, definitely not in mine.
    Sic Semper Tyrannis

  4. #4
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Davisburg, Michigan, United States
    Posts
    8,948

    Post imported post

    Dangerous wrote:
    , leave the gun at home, you'll be dead.

    That's why we carry guns.....troll

    you're from california? is that a disclaimer?

  5. #5
    Regular Member t33j's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    King George, VA
    Posts
    1,384

    Post imported post

    What kind of 1911 is that in your profile pic stainless?
    Sic Semper Tyrannis

  6. #6
    Campaign Veteran
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Lobelville, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    2,615

    Post imported post

    Now, Bikenut,

    In all fairness, Dangerous did not say anything about having any expertise or knowledge in this field.

    Probably the only thing he has communicated truthfully is that.... he's Dangerous.



  7. #7
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    , North Carolina, USA
    Posts
    63

    Post imported post

    t33j wrote:
    What kind of 1911 is that in your profile pic stainless?
    I think it might be a Kimber, not sure though.

  8. #8
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Davisburg, Michigan, United States
    Posts
    8,948

    Post imported post

    Seniordep2010 wrote:
    t33j wrote:
    What kind of 1911 is that in your profile pic stainless?
    Yes, it is a Kimber, a custom eclipse II.

    Its a goal of mine, at 1100$ + 320$ for a CT, its about impossible on a fixed income.

  9. #9
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Greensboro, North Carolina, USA
    Posts
    1,052

    Post imported post

    Dangerous wrote:
    ┬* If you think you'll┬*bring the barrel to eye level, aim, then cooly┬*squeez off a round when the do-do is in the fan, leave the gun at home, you'll be dead.
    Well, even police aren't always prepared for a combat situation of any level, some can barely handle physical confrontations with someone. But I agree in general, people should train as best they can, but leaving the gun at home isn't exactly the smartest thing either. Best thing most people can do (some of us can't afford those high-priced combat training camps) is practice, practice, practice, and consider alternative-fire situations such as playing a serious game of paintball. No, paintball is no where close to real firearms but you can at least train better if you can learn techniques of movement, clearing rooms, finding cover and taking out your targets or even retreat tactics. There is more help there than some would think.

    ┬* Go ask anyone who has ever been in a shoot out or combat, aiming ain't in the equation.┬* You point the gun┬*at┬*or about where you want to shoot, fire, then correct from there.┬*┬*You will, after about the first shot get the barrel to just below eye level.┬* From there┬*you will look over the top of the barrel and fire and correct the rest of the rounds, of until the incident is over.
    On the contrary, that may be true for some who have combat experience (either in the military, police, or self-defense situations). Some people have trained enough to be cool or have combat experience enough to be cool to take aim and incapacitate their target. Sure, if surprised, the element of taking a trained aim and shot may not be there but that is not always the case and if you're able to get to cover you have a better chance at your first shot landing where it needs to be.

    Sure, machine guns, if chosen well (some fire better than others) and placed in the hands of the right person (well trained) can do a lot of on target damage. None of this spray and pray foolishness.

    ┬* This is the reason automatic weapons are used, it gives you a type of shotgun affect without aiming.┬* Aiming is for firing from cover.
    Not quite. Marksmanship and handling training are very important even for machine gun use. Someone that does not have the proper training will more likely get mowed down by a more effective shooter before they have a chance to "shotgun" the opposing force. It's just not that simple. You also run the risk of shooting innocents or even your own people or just wasting ammunition. Automatic fire must be effectively used.

    ┬* Also, the longer the barrel the longer radius when turning left or right.┬* In a shooting situation┬*every millisecond┬*is precious and┬*can work for you and against an adversary provided you act first and faster.
    Sure; this is why they make close combat assault rifles yet even a long barreled rifle can be effectively used if the user is properly trained. And yes, every bit of time counts in a firefight, even before the firefight begins. If you are in danger, time is important to be on your side to either get away or have the upper hand on an assailant to remove them as a threat by what ever means necessary.

    ┬* A heavier handgun too will mitigate into speed of movement, think centrifical force┬*and energy┬*when┬*spinning left or right.┬* ┬*
    Point of contention. Sure, heavy guns don't move as easily as light guns, that is physics, but if you train with a heavy firearm it won't be an issue. You also have to take into account that heavier firearms (rifles, handguns, etc) generally have less recoil, so follow-up shots are easier as you can bring the gun back on target if it deviates less. Even small people, men and women, can have enough arm and hand strength that a heavy gun has little hindrance on a person's movement whether you're talking about centripetal force and the ability to pivot and maneuver the firearm and your arms and body.

    t33j wrote:
    Bikenut wrote:
    Automatic weapons? Really? Perhaps you meant "semi automatic" weapons since automatic weapons are illegal?
    Maybe in your state, definitely not in mine.
    In North Carolina, they are legal, as long as you acquire a permit. After that, you have to go through any federal paperwork and taxes and you're good to go.

  10. #10
    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Saginaw, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,756

    Post imported post

    tekshogun wrote:
    t33j wrote:
    Bikenut wrote:
    Automatic weapons? Really? Perhaps you meant "semi automatic" weapons since automatic weapons are illegal?
    Maybe in your state, definitely not in mine.
    In North Carolina, they are legal, as long as you acquire a permit. After that, you have to go through any federal paperwork and taxes and you're good to go.
    Well, I'll be the first to admit that I can be wrong yet I don't know of any State where it is legal to carry a full auto?

    Even here in Michigan it is legal to own full auto after jumping through all the hoops but as far as I know it isn't legal to carry one around. And I was referring to the carry of a full auto in order to have it on hand when needed as the OP's post inferred.

    Or I read it wrong and am entirely wrong. Wouldn't be the first time.:what:
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

  11. #11
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Greensboro, North Carolina, USA
    Posts
    1,052

    Post imported post

    Bikenut wrote:
    tekshogun wrote:
    t33j wrote:
    Bikenut wrote:
    Automatic weapons? Really? Perhaps you meant "semi automatic" weapons since automatic weapons are illegal?
    Maybe in your state, definitely not in mine.
    In North Carolina, they are legal, as long as you acquire a permit. After that, you have to go through any federal paperwork and taxes and you're good to go.
    Well, I'll be the first to admit that I can be wrong yet I don't know of any State where it is legal to carry a full auto?

    Even here in Michigan it is legal to own full auto after jumping through all the hoops but as far as I know it isn't legal to carry one around. And I was referring to the carry of a full auto in order to have it on hand when needed as the OP's post inferred.

    Or I read it wrong and am entirely wrong. Wouldn't be the first time.:what:
    Well, I wasn't trying to point out that you were wrong or anything, just states often have different laws between each other and apart from the Federal government.

    In Kentucky, I want to say that the laws on automatic weapons are perhaps the most lacks as far as acquiring them but I don't know their laws on carrying. I should be more clear that NC does have a general statute addressing automatic weapons as prohibited, but there are loopholes and provisions given for acquiring these machine guns. As far as if you legally have one, as far as I know, there is nothing against carrying them around here.

    I'd rather people not carry them if you ask me.

  12. #12
    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Saginaw, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,756

    Post imported post

    Task Force 16 wrote:
    Now, Bikenut,

    In all fairness, Dangerous did not say anything about having any expertise or knowledge in this field.

    Probably the only thing he has communicated truthfully is that.... he's Dangerous.

    I consider spreading misinformation or misleading statements via the 'net to be dangerous in that those who are just starting out will end up with bad information that could get them arrested and/or hurt.

    I don't have any kind of problem with the poster Dangerous personally. I understand that most times misinformation isn't posted due to an agenda of any kind... it is just what someone has heard somewhere else and is passing it on. But addressing the misconceptions immediately help everyone who reads it... and the OP too.

    After all, one of the most important goals of OC is to educate folks... all folks.
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

  13. #13
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Concord, California, USA
    Posts
    5

    Post imported post

    Lots of inexperienced words!

    Go argue with the FBI! The average person on the street does not practice point shooting enough to be efficient. Events happen with we least expect it, the heat of the situation.

    I'm not going to get nto all the repliesI havein mind, I don't have the time. I packed a handgun for over ten years as a police officer. My knowledge is from practical experience and reading FBI shootout investigations. Don't tell my the weight of a handgun does not mitigate into control.

  14. #14
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Concord, California, USA
    Posts
    5

    Post imported post

    Lots of inexperienced words!

    Go argue with the FBI! The average person on the street does not practice point shooting enough to be efficient. Events happen with we least expect it, the heat of the situation.

    I'm not going to get nto all the repliesI havein mind, I don't have the time. I packed a handgun for over ten years as a police officer. My knowledge is from practical experience and reading FBI shootout investigations. Don't tell my the weight of a handgun does not mitigate into control.

  15. #15
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Davisburg, Michigan, United States
    Posts
    8,948

    Post imported post

    I told you he was a troll.

    ACalifornia cop who has made 4 posts here, without the time to respond. I normally dont like to feed the trolls, but since he falsely quoted the FBI, I must, as the FBI just admitted that since large capacity mags, and record handgun sales, that crime has gone down for the first time in many years.

    If I can find the info, Ill post it. The NRA just sent it out last week, and I don't know if I still have it.

  16. #16
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Davisburg, Michigan, United States
    Posts
    8,948

  17. #17
    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Saginaw, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,756

    Post imported post

    Dangerous wrote:
    Lots of inexperienced words!

    Go argue with the FBI! The average person on the street does not practice point shooting enough to be efficient. Events happen with we least expect it, the heat of the situation.

    I'm not going to get nto all the repliesI havein mind, I don't have the time. I packed a handgun for over ten years as a police officer. My knowledge is from practical experience and reading FBI shootout investigations. Don't tell my the weight of a handgun does not mitigate into control.
    Simmer down there....

    No one said the weight of the handgun had no effect. What I said was the other, more important, considerations far outweigh the minimal effect of handgun weight.

    Getting the handgun out of the holster efficiently and quickly is far more important than worrying about milliseconds lost tracking the bad guys movements. So what you are concerned about is such a small part of the overall situation as to be... for practical purposes... a nonfactor.

    In my not so humble opinion... worrying about milliseconds lost due to the inertial effects inherent in the weight of a handgun while tracking a bad guy's movements in relation to all the other, much more important, aspects of a self defense encounter is.........

    Much the same as stepping over a $100 bill to pick up a penny... and thinking y'all are now richer.

    Because I don't trust blanket statements like "The average person on the street does not practice point shooting enough to be efficient" I would like a baseline to compare citizens without point shooting training/practice with California police officers with training/practice... that is assuming ALL California police officers get the same training? May I ask Sir....

    how much formal training in point shooting did you receive as an officer? And how often did you, as an officer, practice point shooting?
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

  18. #18
    Regular Member MatieA's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Egbert, Wyoming, USA
    Posts
    403

    Post imported post

    Bikenut wrote:
    Well, I'll be the first to admit that I can be wrong yet I don't know of any State where it is legal to carry a full auto?

    Even here in Michigan it is legal to own full auto after jumping through all the hoops but as far as I know it isn't legal to carry one around. And I was referring to the carry of a full auto in order to have it on hand when needed as the OP's post inferred.

    Or I read it wrong and am entirely wrong. Wouldn't be the first time.:what:
    There is NO law in Wyoming that says you cannot carry a full auto.

    ObviouslyI cannot cite because it is not there.
    If you do not test yourself every single day,
    then it is just another wasted day.
    --Semper Fi--

  19. #19
    Regular Member okboomer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Oklahoma, USA
    Posts
    1,164

    Post imported post

    Dangerous wrote:
    Lots of inexperienced words!
    Care to meet me at the range and see which one of us is a better shot?

    And you are comparing us (OCDO) with the FBI or other LEO who are notoriously lax in their range skills?

    Get a grip, young gun, obviously you have not read enough of the posts on this site to have an idea of whom you are discoursing with.

    Since that is the case, I would like to know what kind of training you have, when you got it, and which branch of the military/LEO you have served in to be making blanket statements such as in your first post:
    Go ask anyone who has ever been in a shoot out or combat, aiming ain't in the equation
    I was trained by someone who had served in an active war, as a state policeman, and a government contractor in Kosovo, and he has made it a point to comment to me that he would take me into a firefight at any time.

    I am lucky in that I have never had to fire my weapon, but I have spent many, many hours of range time, and many thousands of rounds down range to hone my weapons skills, and I have several dozen hours of advanced weapons training to sharpen my threat assessment skills. I train like I plan to fight ... hard, fast, with lots of scenarios. I also read the discussions on this sight and add them to my arsenal.

    Just how much range time do you spend each month?
    cheers - okboomer
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Lead, follow, or get out of the way

    Exercising my 2A Rights does NOT make me a CRIMINAL! Infringing on the exercise of those rights makes YOU one!

  20. #20
    Regular Member NY2AZ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Yuma, Arizona, USA
    Posts
    75

    Post imported post

    Dangerous wrote:
    ┬* If you think you'll┬*bring the barrel to eye level, aim, then cooly┬*squeez off a round when the do-do is in the fan, leave the gun at home, you'll be dead.

    ┬* Go ask anyone who has ever been in a shoot out or combat, aiming ain't in the equation.┬* You point the gun┬*at┬*or about where you want to shoot, fire, then correct from there.┬*┬*You will, after about the first shot get the barrel to just below eye level.┬* From there┬*you will look over the top of the barrel and fire and correct the rest of the rounds, of until the incident is over.

    ┬* This is the reason automatic weapons are used, it gives you a type of shotgun affect without aiming.┬* Aiming is for firing from cover.

    ┬* Also, the longer the barrel the longer radius when turning left or right.┬* In a shooting situation┬*every millisecond┬*is precious and┬*can work for you and against an adversary provided you act first and faster.

    ┬* A heavier handgun too will mitigate into speed of movement, think centrifical force┬*and energy┬*when┬*spinning left or right.┬* ┬*
    you could always use this technique as well.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmKR6evZRQQ
    If ever you find yourself in a situation where you can't be safe, be violent!

  21. #21
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    379

    Post imported post

    Hi - I'm not really experienced at shooting people. I do know a bunch of guys who've been in wars, but I haven't really asked them about this. Massad Ayoob has done a whole lot of asking though, I thought you might be interested in some of what he had to say:

    Among the winners a significant number, uh, a number so great they can't be ignored will recall having aimed the weapon and referenced the sights.
    [Jim Cirillo] recalled in his first gun fight seeing the front sights so intensly that he could recall every groove and striation on the front sight. Cirillo fired three shots, three hits and three neutralizations in three seconds
    [LAPD officers who trained privately]were winning a much higher percentage of gunfights than the officers trained in ordinary techniques. In my opinion the Weaver vs. Isocoles and things like that had little to do with it. Virtually all of those men said they had become programmed - 'when that gun comes up I will focus on the front sight, I will put the bullet where it has to go.'

    If I can give you any bit of advice, based on all of the studies, all of the survivors I have debriefed that would garauntee putting the bullet in the right place, it would be focus on the front sight.

    Of the ones who have lost, a large number will describe "Point gun, pull trigger. 'Point gun, pull trigger.'
    Ayoob is a nationally recognized author, director of the Leathal Force Institute, police captain and expert witness.

  22. #22
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    379

    Post imported post

    I'd also like to summarize a bit of wisdom that Clint Smith puts out ther a lot:

    There's a lawyer attached to every bullet that comes out of your gun. You better know where it's going.

    Clint Smith did two infantry tours in Vietnam, I'm guessing he might know something about gun fights too.

  23. #23
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Concord, California, USA
    Posts
    5

    Post imported post

    Until you have the bullets flying around you everythingis supposition. I was never in a direct shoot out but I've beenso close my butt's been puckered several times. Eachperson brings skills or lack of skills which are not manifest until the **** is in the fan.

    I'll take experience over well thought out techniques never tested in combat situations. Words are words, deeds show results.

    I had a friend who won thestate policechampionship shootsseveral times, then one dayhe got into an actual shoot out, he emptied his weapon 3 times and didn't hit anything of significance.The rangeof the encounter was about 30ft.

    He never competed again, but he went around to S.O.'s and P.D.'s giving talks about this and the need of mental control, weapon control, mere practice can create a false since of confidence, and much much more.

    The weight factor enters the picture more that you realize, inertia is energy directed in a straight line. Centrifugal for enters when a spinning motion is introduced. One must pull inward to counter thepulling affect ofturning. The further out your hand is from the center of your person the more energy the more ithas to be countered. The further your hand is from the center of your person the further radius turn. Go see the combat movies available. I too know when an officer is in a shooting(combat) position and his hand is extended the normal motion is to turn left of right with that extension form. It's prior to the actual encounter when practicedefficient movement and techniques will serve best.

    That is my practical experience. I'm still alive

    I have only brushed a small picture of this topic.

  24. #24
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    379

    Post imported post

    You've survived never been in a shootout - impressive feat compared to those who have been in gunfights and disagree with you.

  25. #25
    Campaign Veteran
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Lobelville, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    2,615

    Post imported post

    Dangerous wrote:
    Until you have the bullets flying around you everythingis supposition. I was never in a direct shoot out but I've beenso close my butt's been puckered several times. Eachperson brings skills or lack of skills which are not manifest until the @#$% is in the fan.

    I'll take experience over well thought out techniques never tested in combat situations. Words are words, deeds show results.

    I had a friend who won thestate policechampionship shootsseveral times, then one dayhe got into an actual shoot out, he emptied his weapon 3 times and didn't hit anything of significance.The rangeof the encounter was about 30ft.

    He never competed again, but he went around to S.O.'s and P.D.'s giving talks about this and the need of mental control, weapon control, mere practice can create a false since of confidence, and much much more.

    The weight factor enters the picture more that you realize, inertia is energy directed in a straight line. Centrifugal for enters when a spinning motion is introduced. One must pull inward to counter thepulling affect ofturning. The further out your hand is from the center of your person the more energy the more ithas to be countered. The further your hand is from the center of your person the further radius turn. Go see the combat movies available. I too know when an officer is in a shooting(combat) position and his hand is extended the normal motion is to turn left of right with that extension form. It's prior to the actual encounter when practicedefficient movement and techniques will serve best.

    That is my practical experience. I'm still alive

    I have only brushed a small picture of this topic.
    NO one is going spin left or right fast enough for centrifugal force to be an issue. Now, if some one has a weapon that weighs5 pounds of more, that might slow their tracking ability a bit. But that will only be due to the resistance against the force exerted to swing the weapon side to side, when held at arms length. Most handguns weigh less than 2 pounds

    The example you give of the LEO that couldn't hit anything during a real shoot out suggest that he forgot every bit of his training when a target shot back at him. Could that happen to anyone? Sure it could. Fearcan have an awesome effect on a person.Mental discipline is a large part of being able to concur the fear of being shot or killed ones self,so that one candraw on practiced shooting skills during a live firefight.

    None of us are going to know how well we will preform under such pressure, until it happens. Some will do better than others. Some of us may even be surprised at how well or badly we do.

    You like to draw on experience, so do I. My experience. Ordinarily, I have to take my time when doing normal everyday work, or else I'll screw things up and have to re-do the mistakes. I always mess up when I get in a hurry. But, let an emergency unfold and for some reason I've been able to think and act quickly in response, without fouling things up. I can't explain this, and it irritates the crap out of me that I can't perform as well WITHOUT the pressure. Will I do as well in a firefight? I don't know. If past experience is any indicater, I should. But I don't really want to find out. I might be horribly dissappointed.

    What you are trying to do here, in my opnion, is insert things into this type of scenario to simply make something that is rather simple very complicated. I don't know why people insist on doing this. If any of us find ourselves in a shoot out with a BG, all we should be concerning ourselves with is acquiring the target, pulling the trigger and making that target fall down. It's as simple as that. No need in worrying about centrifgal forces and milliseconds or anything else.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •