• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

HB 171: Firearms in locked vehicles; immunity from liability

TFred

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2008
Messages
7,750
Location
Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
imported post

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?101+sum+HB171

Full text

Summary:

Firearms in locked vehicles; immunity from liability. Provides that no person, property owner, tenant, employer, or business owner may prohibit a person who lawfully possesses a firearm from storing that firearm in a locked motor vehicle. The bill provides civil immunity for such persons, property owners, tenants, employers, or business owners. The provisions of the bill would not apply to possession of firearms on school property, nor would the provisions apply to vehicles owned or leased by an employer or business and used by an employee in the course of his employment.
 

peter nap

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
Messages
13,551
Location
Valhalla
imported post

I've already marked this a good bill.

angel.jpg
 

streetdoc

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 23, 2007
Messages
341
Location
Unionville, Virginia, USA
imported post

We really need this bill passed, I actually want it more than the restaurant concealed carry. With this my local government employer could no longer tell me I can't have my firearm on county property when I come to work.
 

peter nap

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
Messages
13,551
Location
Valhalla
imported post

streetdoc wrote:
We really need this bill passed, I actually want it more than the restaurant concealed carry. With this my local government employer could no longer tell me I can't have my firearm on county property when I come to work.
I agree with you doc.
I don't have a dog in the restaurant fight but this would be a major step forward for everyone.
 

jmelvin

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2008
Messages
2,195
Location
Lynchburg, Virginia, USA
imported post

Excellent. If given a choice, I'd rather have this bill pass than the restaurant bill. I can already carry openly in any of the places I regularly have lunch, but if I want to carry I'd be forced to park off-site, or more typically, not carry. I'd flatly give upthe effort for concealed carry in restaurants serving alcohol for this and school (K-12) carry with CHP (for now) without a hesitation if I thought I could get a 2 out of 3.
 

DonTreadOnMe

Regular Member
Joined
May 30, 2008
Messages
454
Location
Near The Beach, Virginia, USA
imported post

TFred wrote:
http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?101+sum+HB171

Full text

Summary:

Firearms in locked vehicles; immunity from liability. Provides that no person, property owner, tenant, employer, or business owner may prohibit a person who lawfully possesses a firearm from storing that firearm in a locked motor vehicle. The bill provides civil immunity for such persons, property owners, tenants, employers, or business owners. The provisions of the bill would not apply to possession of firearms on school property, nor would the provisions apply to vehicles owned or leased by an employer or business and used by an employee in the course of his employment.


This is the bill I wanted to see most! This bill #1 on my wish list!
 

skidmark

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 15, 2007
Messages
10,444
Location
Valhalla
imported post

streetdoc wrote:
We really need this bill passed, I actually want it more than the restaurant concealed carry. With this my local government employer could no longer tell me I can't have my firearm on county property when I come to work.

Doc,

I don't think this will resolve your local government prohibition. It's not written to cover them, and does not address the state's violence prevention policy which is the model for the same at the local government level.

Hope I'm wrong, but until I see words specifically addressing local government (and howcome state agencies are not included also :cuss::banghead::cuss:) I think you are still screwed.

stay safe.

skidmark
 

roscoe13

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Apr 18, 2007
Messages
1,134
Location
Catlett, Virginia, USA
imported post

skidmark wrote:
streetdoc wrote:
We really need this bill passed, I actually want it more than the restaurant concealed carry. With this my local government employer could no longer tell me I can't have my firearm on county property when I come to work.

Doc,

I don't think this will resolve your local government prohibition. It's not written to cover them, and does not address the state's violence prevention policy which is the model for the same at the local government level.
I think it does. Local governments are already prohibited from preventing ordinary citizens from keeping a gun in their locked vehicle on local gov't. property by preemption, this bill would keep them from preventing their employees from having the same liberties.

Roscoe
 

wylde007

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2009
Messages
3,035
Location
Va Beach, Occupied VA
imported post

roscoe13 wrote:
I think it does. Local governments are already prohibited from preventing ordinary citizens from keeping a gun in their locked vehicle on local gov't property by preemption, this bill would keep them from preventing their employees from having the same liberties.
I do hope that you are right.

One thing that alternately concerns me is that some places of employment (mine included) sometimes have off-site functions and I am frequently required to represent my company in meetings with clients on project sites and municipal offices.

Company "policy" prohibits me from carrying at any company-sponsored event (Christmas party, summer cookout) or while engaging in business while formally representing the company.

So I'm disarmed any time I step out of my vehicle. It's aggravating.
 

TFred

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2008
Messages
7,750
Location
Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
imported post

The full text link finally went active, here's the meat of the bill:

A. No person, property owner, tenant, employer, or business entity shall maintain, establish, or enforce any policy or rule that has the effect of prohibiting a person who may lawfully possess a firearm from storing a firearm locked in or locked to a motor vehicle in a parking lot, parking space, or other similar property set aside for motor vehicles.
I like it, it includes the very generic term "employer", and no exemption for local, state or federal governments, other than schools. Will it pass, and will it hold up?

TFred
 

simmonsjoe

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2009
Messages
1,661
Location
Mattaponi, Virginia, United States
imported post

jmelvin wrote:
Excellent. If given a choice, I'd rather have this bill pass than the restaurant bill. I can already carry openly in any of the places I regularly have lunch, but if I want to carry I'd be forced to park off-site, or more typically, not carry. I'd flatly give upthe effort for concealed carry in restaurants serving alcohol for this and school (K-12) carry with CHP (for now) without a hesitation if I thought I could get a 2 out of 3.
Stop bargaining for your rights. I expect both and will settle for nothing less.
 

jmelvin

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2008
Messages
2,195
Location
Lynchburg, Virginia, USA
imported post

Good for you. I would hope for the following of the Constitution as most of us understand it, but that doesn't make it reality. Legislators have only so much effort that they can expend on bills during any session and the populace as a whole rarely gives support and attention to anything but a small spectrum of introduced legislation if they give any mind to it at all. I personally only have so much time and strength to drum up support for the bills I find important before I eventually get ignored as a nuisance by those who don't have the burn for the changes that I do. Personally I will put my efforts in supporting the "parking lot bill" and if there's a decent one that comes out to allow for carry in pre and K-12 schools I'll push for that. I can already carry in places serving alcohol, so I don't care to give up 2 options in restaurants to get at least 1 option in 2 other places I'm very likely to go.
 

Repeater

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2007
Messages
2,498
Location
Richmond, Virginia, USA
imported post

SicSemperTyrannis wrote:
One of my highest priorities.
Really? Here's the text, including what I like:

Be it enacted by the General Assembly of Virginia:

1. That the Code of Virginia is amended by adding a section numbered 18.2-308.1:01 as follows:

§ 18.2-308.1:01. Firearms in locked vehicles; immunity from liability.

A. No person, property owner, tenant, employer, or business entity shall maintain, establish, or enforce any policy or rule that has the effect of prohibiting a person who may lawfully possess a firearm from storing a firearm locked in or locked to a motor vehicle in a parking lot, parking space, or other similar property set aside for motor vehicles.

B. No person, property owner, tenant, employer, or business entity shall be liable in any civil action for any occurrence that results from or is connected to the use of a firearm that was lawfully stored pursuant to subsection A, unless the person, property owner, tenant, employer, or business entity commits a criminal act involving the use of the firearm.

C. Any person may enforce this section by filing a petition for injunction in the court of record of the county or city in which the person, property owner, tenant, employer, or business entity prohibiting the firearm is located. The court shall award actual damages, court costs, and attorney fees to a prevailing plaintiff.


D. This section shall not apply to (i) § 18.2-308.1, relating to possession of firearms on school property and at school activities; or (ii) vehicles owned or leased by an employer or business entity and used by an employee in the course of his employment.
 

TFred

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2008
Messages
7,750
Location
Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
imported post

From the VCDL VA-ALERT this evening... In my view this is terrible news. The heavily updated section D guts this bill cleaner than a Christmas turkey.

It's been a while since I've been involved with the security aspects of my company, but I strongly suspect that part (v) of Section D covers all or nearly all federal government contractors. Maybe someone working closer to that field can confirm.

Then when you add in part (ii) you increase coverage to almost every other technical or professional work environment that isn't a federal contractor.

It might be better than nothing, but the propaganda value for the other side could very well outweigh any real gains made by this new version.

How in the world did this happen in the committee anyway? Someone is walking around with a knife in their back.

TFred


****************************************************
3. New wording on HB 171, which prohibits employers from banning guns in locked vehicles
****************************************************

Here is the wording that passed out of committee this morning. The new wording is in (D):

§ 18.2-308.1:01. Firearms in locked vehicles; immunity from liability.

A. No person, property owner, tenant, employer, or business entity shall maintain, establish, or enforce any policy or rule that has the effect of prohibiting a person who may lawfully possess a firearm from storing a firearm locked in or locked to a firearms rack in a motor vehicle in a parking lot, parking space, or other similar property set aside for motor vehicles.

B. No person, property owner, tenant, employer, or business entity shall be liable in any civil action for any occurrence that results from or is connected to the use of a firearm that was lawfully stored pursuant to subsection A, unless the person, property owner, tenant, employer, or business entity commits a criminal act, willful misconduct or gross negligence involving the use of the firearm.

C. Any person may enforce this section by filing a petition for injunction in the court of record of the county or city in which the person, property owner, tenant, employer, or business entity prohibiting the firearm is located. The court shall award actual damages, court costs, and reasonable attorney fees to a prevailing party.

D. This section shall not apply to (i) property on which a person is prohibited from possessing a firearm by § 18.2-308.1; (ii) vehicles on property (a) to which access is restricted or limited through the use of a gate, security station, or other means of restricting or limiting general access onto the property; or (b) upon which a building occupied by a single employer and its affiliated entities is located and in which access to the building is restricted or limited by card access, a security station, or other means of restricting or limiting general public access into the building; (iii) vehicles owned or leased by an employer or business entity and used by an employee in the course of his employment; or (iv) personal vehicles while such vehicles are being used for the transport of consumers of programs licensed by the Department of Behavioral Health and Developmental Services; (v) vehicles on property controlled by an employer required to develop and implement a security plan under federal law or regulation.



[From PVC] I am not thrilled with that new wording in (D). Basically this law covers you if the parking lot can be accessed by the public without some kind of restriction by a gate or guard, and the parking lot is either shared by more than one unrelated company or the company owning the parking lot has no public restrictions on going into the building (guard or card access).

This is a step forward, but not as big a step as I would like.

-------------------------------------------
 

DonTreadOnMe

Regular Member
Joined
May 30, 2008
Messages
454
Location
Near The Beach, Virginia, USA
imported post

TFred wrote:
From the VCDL VA-ALERT this evening... In my view this is terrible news. The heavily updated section D guts this bill cleaner than a Christmas turkey.

It's been a while since I've been involved with the security aspects of my company, but I strongly suspect that part (v) of Section D covers all or nearly all federal government contractors. Maybe someone working closer to that field can confirm.

Then when you add in part (ii) you increase coverage to almost every other technical or professional work environment that isn't a federal contractor.

It might be better than nothing, but the propaganda value for the other side could very well outweigh any real gains made by this new version.

How in the world did this happen in the committee anyway? Someone is walking around with a knife in their back.

TFred


****************************************************
3. New wording on HB 171, which prohibits employers from banning guns in locked vehicles
****************************************************

Here is the wording that passed out of committee this morning. The new wording is in (D):

§ 18.2-308.1:01. Firearms in locked vehicles; immunity from liability.

A. No person, property owner, tenant, employer, or business entity shall maintain, establish, or enforce any policy or rule that has the effect of prohibiting a person who may lawfully possess a firearm from storing a firearm locked in or locked to a firearms rack in a motor vehicle in a parking lot, parking space, or other similar property set aside for motor vehicles.

B. No person, property owner, tenant, employer, or business entity shall be liable in any civil action for any occurrence that results from or is connected to the use of a firearm that was lawfully stored pursuant to subsection A, unless the person, property owner, tenant, employer, or business entity commits a criminal act, willful misconduct or gross negligence involving the use of the firearm.

C. Any person may enforce this section by filing a petition for injunction in the court of record of the county or city in which the person, property owner, tenant, employer, or business entity prohibiting the firearm is located. The court shall award actual damages, court costs, and reasonable attorney fees to a prevailing party.

D. This section shall not apply to (i) property on which a person is prohibited from possessing a firearm by § 18.2-308.1; (ii) vehicles on property (a) to which access is restricted or limited through the use of a gate, security station, or other means of restricting or limiting general access onto the property; or (b) upon which a building occupied by a single employer and its affiliated entities is located and in which access to the building is restricted or limited by card access, a security station, or other means of restricting or limiting general public access into the building; (iii) vehicles owned or leased by an employer or business entity and used by an employee in the course of his employment; or (iv) personal vehicles while such vehicles are being used for the transport of consumers of programs licensed by the Department of Behavioral Health and Developmental Services; (v) vehicles on property controlled by an employer required to develop and implement a security plan under federal law or regulation.



[From PVC] I am not thrilled with that new wording in (D). Basically this law covers you if the parking lot can be accessed by the public without some kind of restriction by a gate or guard, and the parking lot is either shared by more than one unrelated company or the company owning the parking lot has no public restrictions on going into the building (guard or card access).

This is a step forward, but not as big a step as I would like.

-------------------------------------------

Hmmm.....shame about the changes, but PVC is right.
 

vt357

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2006
Messages
490
Location
Richmond, Virginia, USA
imported post

First is there any chance of the Senate passing this bill? Second, any chance we can get a good senator to re-amend the bill to remove most of section D and still get it passed?
 
Top