This law seems to prohibit a lot of OC

imported post

eye95 wrote:

Mike, thanks for the reply.

For clarification, are you saying that -52 is still in force?

Click to expand...

Yes, in part - that is, I think the Ala. cts have in effect said, and the AG opinions too, is that conduct which violates -52's textis unlawful only if it is also a violation of -73. Open carry on foot does not violate -73 just as concealed and car carry with permit does not violate -73 - or "same difference" as some would say.

Additionally, the "premises of another" element in -52 would presumably not apply to public streets, sidewalks, and public property open to the public, e.g., city halls.

And yes, the Alabama statutory scheme is a bit confusing, hence all the AG opinions on the matter telling us open carry is legal.

imported post

Jonathon Norris wrote:

I've seen a lot of you new people come around and instigate lately. Don't worry Richard, there's a good chance they are trolls and agents provacateurs. This crap all started when I directed the local police to this site. So what's up, BPD?

Even if you guys are real, how bout you quit crying and OC, like I did today.

Click to expand...

This paranoid schizoid comment is why I usually just lurk here. I post an honest opinion that I think a lot of people agree with: All the info in the law and relevant cases can be interpreted both ways. Proof of this is in the fact that there are many counties out there with Sheriffs that say OC is NOT legal in Alabama and will take your happy little butt to jail if you OC in their county.

For sticking my head out of my little lurking spot, I am suddenly a troll working for the government trying to provoke forum members to do............what? And, what really made me laugh was that I'm pooled in as a "new people" even though my forum join date clearly shows that I've been lurking here a month longer than Mr. Norris himself.

For the record, me, myself, and I interpret everything I've read as follows: OC is perfectly legal in AL as long as you're walking. If you drive up to the local grocery store and get out with a gun on your belt, you better have a CC license because you carried concealed in your car. HOWEVER, I do not OC because I can see how the laws can be interpreted the other way. If I had the money, time, and legal connections, I would try to get the law clearly written so that there would be only one way to interpret it. Since I don't have any of those, I'll CC because I know I can keep my gun with me wherever I go and don't have to worry about an overzealous LEO.

imported post

Awe Mike you beat me to it..

imported post

I've recently changed my screen name to my actual name. I can assure you I've been on this site quite some time, not that it really matters how long anyone has been here.

That being said, I did not intend to slight anyone genuinely seeking info. What is frustrating me is that CC'ers are always dissecting the law and trying to prove how OC is illegal. Ever hear the phrase 'A man saying that something can't be done, shouldn't stand in the path of the man doing it?'

Just my .02, no offense meant.

imported post

If the courts and law enforcement are viewing -52 as regarding CC only, then there is no black-letter law regarding OC. We have to rely on court cases and AG opinions. These all come down on the side of OC.

One obstacle remains for me personally. How do the Montgomery Sheriff and the MPD feel about OC?

I had a nice little encounter with a deputy yesterday (not gun-related), establishing once again that LEOs don't always do things right. It was a pleasant enough exchange, he was just wrong. The side of the road would have been a foolish place for me to press the issue. However, I will be contacting the Sheriff's office today.

So, does anyone have any indication (preferably written) of how the two Montgomery law enforcement agencies handle OC?

BTW, for those of you who responded to my inquiries as a search for information and provided that information, thank you. Mike, you were most helpful, and I truly appreciate it.

For those of you who treated me as a troll, I would just advise you to stop jumping to paranoid conclusions. You'll find life a more pleasant existence if you don't automatically mistrust people.

Thanks again to those who help and to the guys who make this site possible. This site is making a difference.

imported post

Your best bet would be to write the departments and ask for their policy specifically. That way you'll be sure to get the most recent, and most accurate version of their opinion!

There have been a couple posts around here of letters other members have sent to their Sheriffs and what not... those might be a good place to start.

imported post

Let me go on the record and apologize to anyone offended by my rant the other day. My frustration was from other issues had nothing to do with OC. It's now clear that people are attracted to this site more from a rise in awareness of OC legality, and my suspicions have been proven to be unfounded and probably sleep-deprivation induced.

Possum, Eye, hope I cleared that up.

imported post

Thank you, Jonathon. We're cool.

imported post

Thanks, dixieborn.

Yeah, I grabbed a copy of D. T. Marshall's (cool name for a sheriff) letter. I have sent an email to the chief in Montgomery. It's been two days. I hope to get a reply soon.

imported post

Jonathon Norris wrote:

Let me go on the record and apologize to anyone offended by my rant the other day. My frustration was from other issues had nothing to do with OC. It's now clear that people are attracted to this site more from a rise in awareness of OC legality, and my suspicions have been proven to be unfounded and probably sleep-deprivation induced.

Possum, Eye, hope I cleared that up.

Click to expand...

Not a problem, and right back atcha. I've been working too dang hard, getting paid too little, and not gettin enough sleep. (insatiable wife just won't let up, you know) :celebrate

imported post

haha awesome, yeah definitely let us know about a reply!

and touche... that is a great name for a sheriff...

imported post

It seems that the MPD has been trying to reply to me. The first three attempts were rejected by my ISP. The fourth got through.

The deputy chief to whom I spoke was 2A-friendly, but was unaware of the law regarding OC. He said that I'd have no problem from him if he saw me OC at the local gas station, but did not know how a young inexperienced officer would react. He thought that OC was OK with a permit. I passed along that it was legal without a permit.

He thought OC was unwise in town, explaining that that is why we have police. I chose not to argue the point with him since that was not the goal of my conversation. I am curious about how MPD officers are trained regarding OC and what the policies (if any exist) are regarding OC.

The deputy chief said that he'd call the academy and the commander of the patrol officers for their input. He said he'd get back with me. I'll post when he does.

Nice guy. Reasonable, courteous, professional, helpful, and friendly.

imported post

Isn't it refreshing when you get reasonable, helpful responses from those sworn to serve the public? It's always encouraging to me and starts to give me a glimmer of faith! Hopefully he keeps it up and gets back to you again! Thanks for the update!!

imported post

It is. I think we actually get more reasonable responses than unreasonable. It's just that one unreasonable jerk leaves enough bad taste in your mouth that it takes 20 reasonable public servants to get the taste out!

imported post

That's true, I think you're right.

And to be fair... it's probably the same for LEO's. They get one unruly citizen determined to make their life difficult and/or dangerous... and it becomes hard for them not to assume the next 10 are going to act the same way.

I figure our job is to find that balance. Be courteous and respectful citizens... but know the limits and not allow those with authority to abuse it and take advantage of the citizens they swore to serve!

imported post

Wisdom.

imported post

The deputy chief called me back again. He confirmed that the sheriff says OC is legal. He talked to the city attorneys also. At first blush, they said it was legal. They cautioned that one should be careful not to do anything that would alarm others.

He noted the apparent discrepancy between -52 and -73. I related how I had that same concern (this thread). Anyway, he said that this was food for thought. We talked about how MPD might want to formulate a policy on this issue before patrol officers encounter OCers.

Once again, an enjoyable and productive conversation. I am confident that this process could avoid unfortunate encounters in the future between MPD officers and citizens as a result of either or both of them not knowing the law or reacting badly.

My respect for MPD grew a lot today.

imported post

That is really great to hear, I wish we could get something like that in writing. Thanks for the info.

imported post

Sorry I'm Johnny-Come-Lately to this post. it was alot to read..... One thing that really stuck with me when I was reading through all the law documents was this in particular:

The State v. Reid,
Supreme Court of Alabama, 1 Ala.
612; 1840 Ala.
But the court say that it is a matter
which will not admit of legislative
regulation, and in order to test the
correctness of its opinion, supposes
one Legislature to prohibit the
bearing arms secretly, and a
subsequent Legislature to enact a law
against bearing them openly; and then
asks the question, whether the first,
or last enactment would be
unconstitutional. Under the
provision of our constitution, we
incline to the opinion that the
Legislature cannot inhibit the
citizen from bearing arms openly,
because it authorizes him to bear
them for the purposes of defending
himself and the State, and it is
only when carried openly, that they
can be efficiently used for defense.


That really summed it up for me..."Under the
provision of our constitution, we
incline to the opinion that the
Legislature cannot inhibit the
citizen from bearing arms openly,
because it authorizes him to bear
them for the purposes of defending
himself and the State, and it is
only when carried openly, that they
can be efficiently used for defense."


How else could you defend yourself or the State if you could only do so at your house? Thats when the light clicked on for me and I felt alot better about OC.

imported post

Bump.

This thread explains why OC is legal in Alabama. Pay particular attention to the AL SC opinion that say OC cannot be outlawed.