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OC on a Motorcycle

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Franktroplis

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As I understand, once you step into a vehicle (motorcycle included) your open carry becomes concealed carry. Therefore, to carry while on a motorcycle a CPL is required.
My question is:
Does a police officer have reasonable suspicion to stop someone who OCs on a motorcycle?

OC is not a good enough reason for a "Terry stop," but I'm curious if having an exposed concealed firearm is a satisfactory reason for a "Terry stop." Since concealed carry is technically illegal (without gov permission), is it fair for an officer to stop someone under suspicion of carrying a concealed weapon?

I think these issues relate because if suspicion of carrying a concealed weapon is a justified reason to stop, then OCing on a motorcycle could be seen as a reasonable reason to stop someone.

P.S. I have seen the Youtube video of the guy doing this and being stopped.
 
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MrBfromD

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I always try to look at things that involve firearm laws from both views and I hate to say it but I think an officer would consider this RS for a terry. Someone on here may say otherwise but I think you would be running the risk of getting stopped.
 
F

Franktroplis

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I'm worried that you might be right. Clearly once it is established that the person has a CPL he must be let go, but it seems like a stop would be expected for the officer to find out.

This is all based on the premise that "suspicion of carrying a concealed weapon" is reasonable suspicion for a "Terry stop."
 
1245A Defender

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WaltherP99C wrote:
I'm worried that you might be right. Clearly once it is established that the person has a CPL he must be let go, but it seems like a stop would be expected for the officer to find out.

This is all based on the premise that "suspicion of carrying a concealed weapon" is reasonable suspicion for a "Terry stop."
Click to expand...

you must actually read terry... then florida v j.l....then ublies?sp?

carrying a gun is not RAS for a stop! their is no fire arm exception!

even on a motor cycle with open carry is not RAS of a crime!... Ya you might get stopped, but its bogus... watch kimberguys tapes...they dont even dissarm him!
 
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Franktroplis

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1245A Defender wrote:
carrying a gun is not RAS for a stop! their is no fire arm exception!

even on a motor cycle with open carry is not RAS of a crime!... Ya you might get stopped, but its bogus... watch kimberguys tapes...they dont even dissarm him!
Click to expand...
I noted in my original post that I've seen kimberguys videos.

I understand that a Terry stop requires reasonable suspicion that a crime is in progress.

My question is: If carrying a concealed weapon is a crime (without special permission), then isn't suspicion of carrying a concealed weapon is a legally justified stop?
 
EM87

EM87

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WaltherP99C wrote:
My question is: If carrying a concealed weapon is a crime (without special permission), then isn't suspicion of carrying a concealed weapon is a legally justified stop?
Click to expand...

No, because some people can legally carry a concealed weapon. They can't just stop you to see if you have a CPL. They have to have reasonable articulable suspicion that a crime is, has been, or will be committed. They don't know if you're legal or not, and you may be, and because you may be legal there's no RAS. If it weren't for the disclosure stipulation of having a CPL, you would not be required to give an officer your ID when stopped for possibly carrying a concealed pistol, just like OC.
 
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Franktroplis

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Then would it also be true that if a cop catches a glimpse of someone carrying a concealed weapon he would also not have reasonable suspicion to stop that person?
 
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sevenplusone

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dougwg wrote:
All he has to do is run my plate and he'll see that I have a CPL.
Click to expand...

As I have said numerous times on here...don't just assume that because an officer has run your plate that he has your CPL info.



SOS info and CPL info are entirely different transactions within the LEIN/SOS/NCIC system. In many police departments an officer must first run your plate, see who the registered owner is, then run the registered owner for warrants/CPL/PPO info. If he thinks he saw something that would warrant a felony stop (the part with guns drawn and a bunch of cruisers coming lights and sirens) he may not take the time to fully run the vehicle or the registered owner.
 
1245A Defender

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WaltherP99C wrote:
Then would it also be true that if a cop catches a glimpse of someone carrying a concealed weapon he would also not have reasonable suspicion to stop that person?
Click to expand...
im sorry for writing too fast.... in the olden days..last year....we were pretty safe from illegal search and arrest...terry..J.L....ublies...and the cream of the crop of st,john valamgordo....,but just afew days ago this case came down that throws a monkey wrench into everything we hold dear...your 2nd, your 4th, and your 5th A rights got tossed, read about it here http://www.examiner.com/x-5619-Atlanta-Gun-Rights-Examiner~y2009m12d31-Court-upholds-police-pointing-gun-at-lawful-carriers

i read this and it broke my heart.... so now im correcting myself and thinking were all in big trouble, and better watch our a$$ if we so much as venture out into the world!
 
C

conservative85

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WaltherP99C wrote:
dougwg wrote:
All he has to do is run my plate and he'll see that I have a CPL.
Click to expand...
Very true, but I don't think that LEOs are required to run plates before they stop a suspect.
Click to expand...
Oh they do! Their Law Enforcement they can do what they want....(Sarcasm off)
 
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Franktroplis

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1245A Defender wrote:
but just afew days ago this case came down that throws a monkey wrench into everything we hold dear...your 2nd, your 4th, and your 5th A rights got tossed, read about it here http://www.examiner.com/x-5619-Atlanta-Gun-Rights-Examiner~y2009m12d31-Court-upholds-police-pointing-gun-at-lawful-carriers

i read this and it broke my heart.... so now im correcting myself and thinking were all in big trouble, and better watch our a$$ if we so much as venture out into the world!
Click to expand...
Wow, I guess that proves that if I OC on my bike, I can expect an Officer to draw his gun on me and take mine pistol. And the courts will support him. That is not the answer I was hoping for.

Perhaps we should set up an Open Carry Protest for him.
 
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BreakingTheMold

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So according to the article, it would NOT be OK to have disarmed and confiscated his firearm if he were carrying openly?

Unrelated note: What part of that oath and the title civil servant don't people understand....
 
F

Franktroplis

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BreakingTheMold wrote:
So according to the article, it would NOT be OK to have disarmed and confiscated his firearm if he were carrying openly?
Click to expand...
Georgia requires a license to OC as well as CC. Perhaps the case would turn out differently in MI, since OC doesn't require permission.
 
Venator

Venator

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WaltherP99C wrote:
1245A Defender wrote:
but just afew days ago this case came down that throws a monkey wrench into everything we hold dear...your 2nd, your 4th, and your 5th A rights got tossed, read about it here http://www.examiner.com/x-5619-Atlanta-Gun-Rights-Examiner~y2009m12d31-Court-upholds-police-pointing-gun-at-lawful-carriers

i read this and it broke my heart.... so now im correcting myself and thinking were all in big trouble, and better watch our a$$ if we so much as venture out into the world!
Click to expand...
Wow, I guess that proves that if I OC on my bike, I can expect an Officer to draw his gun on me and take mine pistol. And the courts will support him. That is not the answer I was hoping for.

Perhaps we should set up an Open Carry Protest for him.
Click to expand...
Don't let it get you down. The judge is a well knownanti-gun person and the decision is crap and will be overturned. It also depends on the state.
 
Venator

Venator

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MrBfromD wrote:
I always try to look at things that involve firearm laws from both views and I hate to say it but I think an officer would consider this RS for a terry. Someone on here may say otherwise but I think you would be running the risk of getting stopped.
Click to expand...

How is it RAS? Many people are allowed to conceal carry, many people are allowed to drive a car. LEO's can't stop you just to see if you have a DL why should they be allowed to stop you just because they want to see if you have a licence to conceal. Same principal in law.

The SCOTUS has ruled that you just can't stop a person driving a car to see if they have a license, I hope the same would be true for stopping and asking for a CPL.
 
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