Took my CWP class...

mqondo · Jan 8, 2010

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Dcowgirl wrote:

I will recommend this instructor to friends and family as he was recommended to me. There are few instructors out there that are offering the same quality instruction.

How can you call giving out incorrect information "quality instruction"? I agree that a 4 hour class isn't a lot of time for all the questions people have, but giving out wrong information isn't quality. I'm sure Chad is a good guy. He's teaching people about firearms, and is training people, which is good. However, if someone is going to teach a CFP class, then they should know what they are talking about. Telling a class that it's illegal to Open Carry, or illegal to carry a loaded firearm when you have a CFP is wrong. They should read the laws, and no teach opinions. If they want to teach that they don't think it's a good idea, in their opinion, that is fine. But don't teach that it's illegal.

mqondo · Jan 8, 2010

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b1ack5mith wrote:

niiiice. exact opposite of what he said to the class, he probably thinks you're shurtleff LOL!

Thank you mqondo for Emailing him! *high five*

Any time.

Dcowgirl · Jan 8, 2010

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I am going to agree to disagree with you. The class was about concealed weapons. I wanted and needed to know about concealed weapons, period.

All I can say is if you do not like the class don't recommend it. But be careful of what you do say and put online.

Dcowgirl · Jan 8, 2010

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mqondo wrote:

Dcowgirl wrote:

I will recommend this instructor to friends and family as he was recommended to me. There are few instructors out there that are offering the same quality instruction.

Click to expand...

How can you call giving out incorrect information "quality instruction"? I agree that a 4 hour class isn't a lot of time for all the questions people have, but giving out wrong information isn't quality. I'm sure Chad is a good guy. He's teaching people about firearms, and is training people, which is good. However, if someone is going to teach a CFP class, then they should know what they are talking about. Telling a class that it's illegal to Open Carry, or illegal to carry a loaded firearm when you have a CFP is wrong. They should read the laws, and no teach opinions. If they want to teach that they don't think it's a good idea, in their opinion, that is fine. But don't teach that it's illegal.

Sorry hit the wrong button. I did not find that he gave incorrect information. I believe that for some it may not have been received correctly as they may have been loaded for bear before they even got to class.

b1ack5mith · Jan 8, 2010

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mqondo · Jan 8, 2010

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Dcowgirl wrote:

I am going to agree to disagree with you. The class was about concealed weapons. I wanted and needed to know about concealed weapons, period.

All I can say is if you do not like the class don't recommend it. But be careful of what you do say and put online.

You must not have read the thread because we also talked about concealed, not just open carry. Chad said that even with a CFP, you CANNOT carry a loaded weapon. That is totally untrue. Also, having a CFP changes the way you can open carry, because you can carry a loaded firearm with a CFP while open carrying. So whether or not you went to the class because it was a CONCEALED class, doesn't change the fact that it has effect on OPEN carry.

XDMan72 · Jan 9, 2010

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Okay,

I have had enough of this! B1ack5mith I am calling you out here and now! If you have not figured it out this is Chad Killian. I have been informed by a friend of mine what you have posted on this public web site!

Lucky for you I am not a vengeful person and I really believe after meeting with you that you are a generally good person, young and wanting the admiration of your peers, I understand that. I also have trained many new gung hoe people to know that there is a lot of pride involved and that arguing with you will only add to your naivety, and not accomplish anything. I have spent most of my lifetime trying to educate people about firearms and the law, most of which has been trying to correct the misguided action of my fellow police officers!

Believe what you want from what happened the other night in the class, I do believe that dcowgirl was trying to tell you how you came across in the class, you did not accomplish anything by trying to prove to everyone in the class how smart you thought you were, what you proved is that you don’t have listening skills and that you don’t know how the rest of the world viewed your action, which by the way reflects on the rest of your group, who, I do believe are trying to promote a good thing! I hope you realize that the majority of the people in Utah view your positions as somewhat radical; you did nothing to discourage that view and everything to cement their misguided views.

With that being said let me get down to the brass knuckles of this. I had a total of 15 people in the class on Wednesday January 6th, 2010 of those 15, 13 were paying students 2 sat in the class one of was your friend. I now have in my possession 8 notarized affidavits from those paying students, those affidavitsclosely state what cowgirl states in her posts.

I have taught hundreds if not thousands of students the Utah CFP course which, follows the state mandatory minimum curriculum, and if need be, I am positive I will be able to gather more sworn statement that I do teach the correct law, and I do know what the law is. When mq** emailed me I had no idea who he was and Ino problem letting people know what I teach, I have had BCI rep’s sit in my class before and I have worked closely with them myself. Now I am going to extend to you an olive branch, it will be up to you to decide what you want to do with it! But first I want you to study and contemplate these two laws,

76-9-103. Disrupting a meeting or procession.

76-9-404. Criminal defamation.

I will expect an apology on this web site, but I will also like to sit down with you and anyone on this site who wants to come along with you, where we can further discuss, the laws, and our own interpretation of the law, and I will be glade to show each and everyone of them mypower point which I use for my class. Mq**** already posted my email I sent to him, thank you by the way,.. that is exactly what I tell people about the “open carry laws” when people ask and are willing to listen.

I don’t know your background but you know mine, I have been through many court hearings, trials etc. I know it does not matter what the law states, no matter what law, the defense and prosecutor quote or site, the law is still left up to be interpreted by the jury, and depending on the classification of the law that was broken that could be from 4-12 of your and my peers.

My classes are always open to anyone who would love to audit them, free of charge. I encourage input from my students and could healthy discussion, if it does not detract from the class!

The ball is in your court! You all know how to contact me since b1ack5mith has posted it in this thread

I look forward to hearing from you.

Sincerely,

Chad Killian

b1ack5mith · Jan 9, 2010

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Leelando · Jan 9, 2010

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hmm. I'm having some trouble reconciling the "Lucky for you I am not a vengeful person" statement with the other more ominous "I now have in my possession 8 notarized affidavits" and "study and contemplate these two laws" parts. It sure sounds like lawyer'ing up and coming after you. Then again, emotional intent comes across so poorly in written communication.

It doesn't seem impossible to me that b1ack5mith took the class looking for opportunity to find fault and misunderstood something that was said.
It also doesn't seem impossible to me that Chad (in spite of his extensive experience) slipped up and said something incorrect.

Heaven knows that I've both misunderstood and misspoken enough times...

From what little I know of both of them, they seem like reasonable men and I hope this all gets worked out without too much further fuss.

Far more interesting to me was the reminder that in court anything can happen. In this forum we love to quote statutes and code and the occasional reminder that you can be 100% right and still get convicted and go to jail is useful.

b1ack5mith · Jan 9, 2010

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packingmama · Jan 9, 2010

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I will be certified the end of March to teach the class. Who wants to be my guinea pigs for the first class?

b1ack5mith · Jan 10, 2010

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I have decided to just delete all of these posts, I believe that I acted immaturely. I apologise for this situation, Mr. Killian.

mqondo · Jan 10, 2010

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I hope I didn't so anything to offend you Chad. If I have, I apologize. I don't like when instructors teach things that are incorrect. From what you said in your email, you teach the correct laws. I also think that when people have opinions about something, they should state that it is their opinion, and not law (as some other instructors have taught). I know this since I have sat in their classes before and heard them give out wrong details. I'm glad that you give out good info, and again, if I have said anything that offended you, I apologize.

manithree · Jan 12, 2010

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packingmama wrote:

I will be certified the end of March to teach the class. Who wants to be my guinea pigs for the first class?

Where will you be teaching? I think my wife would really enjoy taking the class from you.

XDMan72 · Jan 12, 2010

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mqondo wrote:

I hope I didn't so anything to offend you Chad. If I have, I apologize. I don't like when instructors teach things that are incorrect. From what you said in your email, you teach the correct laws. I also think that when people have opinions about something, they should state that it is their opinion, and not law (as some other instructors have taught). I know this since I have sat in their classes before and heard them give out wrong details. I'm glad that you give out good info, and again, if I have said anything that offended you, I apologize.

mqondo,

You have not offended me by any means, There is always two sides of a story, and you can get many different statements from the same incidents. This is my lively hood, I do firearms training, and part of that is the CFP training. I take a strong stance if someone threatens to take food out of my childrens mouth, so my responce to b1ack5mith was swift, and strong. I contacted every one else that took the class, shared the statement made, and I got back total support.

My opinion is to use caution in all types of carrying, like most people in this forum have stated a lot of Peace Officers out there have no idea about the laws, and even if they do, they enforce the laws according to the interpretations of their city prosecutors. If it goes to court then it all goes out the door.

I herd once from a defense attorney, this quote. “It is no longer about the law, its about how much law you can afford”. It is my opinion to error on the side of caution.

packingmama · Jan 12, 2010

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manithree wrote:

packingmama wrote:

I will be certified the end of March to teach the class. Who wants to be my guinea pigs for the first class?

Click to expand...

Where will you be teaching? I think my wife would really enjoy taking the class from you.

I don't know yet, somewhere in Utah County probably. Haven't planned anything so far. I will when the time comes closer.

Anything particular in mind?

Utah_Patriot · Jan 13, 2010

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Sounds like Chad was called out and responded on this fourm.

I personaly feel if he would have just responded with the correct information at the class this would have never happened.

By threating legal action against another person who did nothing wrong shows me the type of person you really are. I personaly would not have taken a class from Chad nor recomend anyone else take a class based on his actions here on the fourm.

I stand by the members on this fourm and their decision to post their experiences. So Chad if you have somthing productive to share about open carry then feel free to post. And Cowgirl if you have somthing positive to post then please do so.

So Chad and Cowgirl unless you want troll status then please post somthing more positive and have a great day.

swillden · Jan 15, 2010

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gunsfreak4791 wrote:

By threating legal action against another person who did nothing wrong shows me the type of person you really are. I personally would not have taken a class from Chad nor recommend anyone else take a class based on his actions here on the forum.

I agree. I have no idea what Chad Killian said in class, but based on his posts here I'd recommend finding a different instructor.

ichigo · Jan 15, 2010

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swillden wrote:

gunsfreak4791 wrote:

By threating legal action against another person who did nothing wrong shows me the type of person you really are. I personally would not have taken a class from Chad nor recommend anyone else take a class based on his actions here on the forum.

Click to expand...

I agree. I have no idea what Chad Killian said in class, but based on his posts here I'd recommend finding a different instructor.

+1 on the above. I was thinking the exact same thing. Sometimes the swift, strong, I am a hero talk will make you look the worse. Sorry he threatened your livelihood but you sealed the deal.
It takes a courageous man to admit defeat except when they are facing legalities...then any Joe can do it. We can all see b1ack5mith is just going through the motions Chad forced him to go through. I applaud.

Chad, I believe a few lesson were learned. 1. You reserve the right to kick someone out of your class for disruption and will need to do it from time to time. 2. Try to teach classes where the people are not, "loaded for BEAR" to quote Dcowgirl.
You sound decent but if you want to win respect from everyone, become involved with this site and post your opinion on other topics. If we never hear from you or Dcowgirl again, we know your intent was to create an account to merely clear your name caring less about the issues of open carry, never post again, and trolling your business in the process. Hope to see you pop up here and there.
-banki-

LovesHisXD45 · Jan 15, 2010

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XDMan72 wrote:

mqondo wrote:

I hope I didn't so anything to offend you Chad. If I have, I apologize. I don't like when instructors teach things that are incorrect. From what you said in your email, you teach the correct laws. I also think that when people have opinions about something, they should state that it is their opinion, and not law (as some other instructors have taught). I know this since I have sat in their classes before and heard them give out wrong details. I'm glad that you give out good info, and again, if I have said anything that offended you, I apologize.

Click to expand...

mqondo,

You have not offended me by any means, There is always two sides of a story, and you can get many different statements from the same incidents. This is my lively hood, I do firearms training, and part of that is the CFP training. I take a strong stance if someone threatens to take food out of my childrens mouth, so my responce to b1ack5mith was swift, and strong. I contacted every one else that took the class, shared the statement made, and I got back total support.

My opinion is to use caution in all types of carrying, like most people in this forum have stated a lot of Peace Officers out there have no idea about the laws, and even if they do, they enforce the laws according to the interpretations of their city prosecutors. If it goes to court then it all goes out the door.

I herd once from a defense attorney, this quote. “It is no longer about the law, its about how much law you can afford”. It is my opinion to error on the side of caution.

ROFL! So, if I said. "A lot of pilots out there have no idea how to fly a plane"? ......

Anyways... I have missed a ton of drama llama it would seem. Hope this all blows over. Putting in my 2 cents though, it's all another reason why we should all keep those digital recorders going at all times. It would have been nice to have a snip uploaded for everyone to listen to and make their own decision.

It's hard to go against the cold hard facts when caught on tape.

Kevin

Took my CWP class...

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