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Thread: More Guns, Less Crime Dr. John Lott on 9th Circuit decision gives felons the right to vote ...'

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    http://johnrlott.blogspot.com/2010/0...ght.html#links

    The decision: Felons should be allowed to vote because the criminal justice system supposedly incarcerates blacks relative to whites more than it should. The AP discussion on this is here.

    A small part of my discussion on felons voting in my book Freedomnomics.
    Two, many convicted criminals face severe penalties in addition to a prison sentence. Many jobs are forbidden to felons, often making it hard for them simply to earn a living. Yet, since the 2000 election, the loss of voting rights has suddenly emerged as the most pressing problem that former convicts supposedly face. Restoring voting rights, we are told, is indicative “in so many ways of citizenship that it is more important than owning a gun or being able to hold [a particular job].”

    Felons themselves, however, have other priorities. In addition to finding a job, felons, who frequently live in poor, high-crime neighborhoods want to be able to defend themselves. In Virginia, the number one reason felons cite for asking for clemency is the desire to regain their right to own a gun. The Assistant for Clemency for the Governor of Virginia for 1994 and 1995 reported that restoring “voting rights was never on the application for clemency.”

    According to academic studies, from 1972 to 1996, on average 80 percent of felons would have voted Democratic. An overwhelming 93 percent ostensibly would have voted for Bill Clinton in 1996. In addition to giving the Democrats the White House in 2000, this “felon vote” would have given Democrats control of the Senate from 1986 to 2004.

    But these studies are problematic. Felons’ voting patterns are assumed to be the same as those of non-felons of the same race, gen- der, age, and educational status. The estimates do not account for the possibility that there is something fundamentally different about felons that could cause them to vote differently. If two people are of the same race, gender, age, and educational status but one person commits mur- ders or rapes, there might be something quite different between these two people that could affect how they vote.

    Public Opinion Strategies surveyed 602 adults in Washington State in May 2005. Of the respondents, 102 were felons who had their voting rights restored, while 500 were non-felons. They were asked about their political preferences, as well as background information about their race, gender, education level, religious habits, employment, age, and county of residence. This survey makes it possible to test the assumption that felons and non-felons are essentially the same.

    The survey’s results indicate that felons vote even more frequently for Democrats than one would estimate based solely on their personal characteristics. After accounting for all these factors, I found that felons were 36 percent more likely than non-felons with the same character- istics to have voted for Kerry over Bush and 37 percent more likely to be registered Democratic. While African-American and Asians in Wash- ington tend to vote for “a few more Democrats than Republicans,” felons among those groups vote for “mostly Democrats.” In fact, felons in both groups voted exclusively for Democratic Presidential candidate John Kerry. . . .

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    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Master Doug Huffman wrote:
    According to academic studies, from 1972 to 1996, on average 80 percent of felons would have voted Democratic. An overwhelming 93 percent ostensibly would have voted for Bill Clinton in 1996. In addition to giving the Democrats the White House in 2000, this “felon vote” would have given Democrats control of the Senate from 1986 to 2004.
    Birds of a feather...
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
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    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

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    Regular Member MamaLiberty's Avatar
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    The real "felons" who rape, murder and commit other violent crime simply need to be eliminated on conviction - preferably on scene at the hands of their intended victims.

    Unfortunately, almost anything can be called a "felony" these days, and many otherwise innocent people are so branded.

    How they vote is their business, as with anyone else. That they are prevented from exercising their most basic human rights should be of concern to all of us.

    What activity in YOUR life will be persecuted as a "felony" next? Are you willing to give up your right to self defense because of that?


    I will not knowingly initiate force. I am a self owner.

    Let the record show that I did not consent to be governed. I did not consent to any constitution. I did not consent to any president. I did not consent to any law except the natural law of "mala en se." I did not consent to the police. Nor any tax. Nor any prohibition of anything. Nor any regulation or licensing of any kind.

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    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    MamaLiberty wrote:
    The real "felons" who rape, murder and commit other violent crime simply need to be eliminated on conviction - preferably on scene at the hands of their intended victims.

    Unfortunately, almost anything can be called a "felony" these days, and many otherwise innocent people are so branded.

    How they vote is their business, as with anyone else. That they are prevented from exercising their most basic human rights should be of concern to all of us.

    What activity in YOUR life will be persecuted as a "felony" next? Are you willing to give up your right to self defense because of that?
    It is inevitable that all behaviors that do not make politicians rich without having to do anything, will eventually be labeled as felonious.

    I spent 5 years learning how to design guns, and studying other designs. I will never be unarmed because I can damn near make one from dirt (and I actually can make black powder from dirt).

    But look at Patrick Luty... He is literally imprisoned for thought crime. It is coming here soon. Our society is already hopelessly dependent upon consumerism and it is used as a tool to cull those who dare to think differently than told.... Just one more step and we're there.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
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    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

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    ixtow wrote:
    I actually can make black powder from dirt.
    Ahh, an alchemist.

    http://scienceblogs.com/denialism/about.php

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    The following quote is from another thread on the same subject.

    Master Doug Huffman wrote:
    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...home_headlines

    OLYMPIA, Wash. | Incarcerated felons should be allowed to vote in Washington to ensure that racial minorities are protected under the Voting Rights Act, a federal appeals court ruled Tuesday.
    Civil rights laws were not passed to protect the rights of white men and do not apply to them
    --Mary Frances Berry, Chairman, US Commission on Civil Rights
    As I've said in the other thread, the intent and purpose of this ruling is to dilute the white vote in Washington, by allowing non-white felons who are otherwise legally incapacitated, the vote.

    The whole thrust of the American legal system at this point in our history is to maintain and preserve at all costs, the idea of 'diversity,' and 'multiculturalism.' Both of which are Marxist philosophies.

    The good news is that those philosophies require a lot of money to maintain and the state and federal tax base is drying up. The first things to go will be programs that enforce the suicidal ideas of diversity and multiculturalism as is seen in California with their recent cuts in benefits to illegal aliens.

    When the state and politicians reach a point at which they can't hand out cash in exchange for votes they will have to secure votes in any manner possible. In this case it's allowing felons, a captive audience under the states supervision, the vote.
    Those votes cast won't stray far from the party line, if at all. And as anyone with an IQ over 25 knows, voting is a rigged game anyway.

    'Diversity' and 'Multiculturalism': The real suicide bomb.

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    ColMustard wrote:
    Those votes cast won't stray far from the party line, if at all. And as anyone with an IQ over 25 knows, voting is a rigged game anyway.

    'Diversity' and 'Multiculturalism': The real suicide bomb.
    We agree.

    Either we are equal or we are not. Good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits and guns and the truth. NRA ******* ******* the Obamination and its teeth.

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    The other day I heard about these teens who were being charged with felonies for what amounted to driving through someones grass. Thus destroying their lives. If the nation shows that lives, rights, and a persons entire future is worth so little, then what possibly should it expect in return. As the nation leads, so its people will follow.

    As long as the term "felon" is thrown around with such disregard, I will not be able to take the word seriously.



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    What is galling is that there is no "right to vote". The Constitution says that Federal officers shall be elected by the States in such manner as the Legislature thereof may direct.

    There is, however, a Constitutionally enumerated RTKBA. Yet none of these "voting rights" advocates will say that felons ought to have their right restored. There have been at least two threads on this forum arguing about that. Personally I think that someone who cannot be trusted with a firearm ought not be allowed to walk among us.

    But here in Virginia, a kid who throws a snowball at a car can be charged with "throwing missiles"; a Class 6 felony (Class 5 or even 2 under some circumstances).

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    Alexcabbie wrote:
    But here in Virginia, a kid who throws a snowball at a car can be charged with "throwing missiles"; a Class 6 felony (Class 5 or even 2 under some circumstances).
    What about magic missiles? LOL
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oWAb5NVALw

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    N6ATF wrote:
    Alexcabbie wrote:
    But here in Virginia, a kid who throws a snowball at a car can be charged with "throwing missiles"; a Class 6 felony (Class 5 or even 2 under some circumstances).
    What about magic missiles? LOL
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oWAb5NVALw
    Screw that, what happens if I pee on them?
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
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    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

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    Regular Member KansasMustang's Avatar
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    Ixtow you said: I spent 5 years learning how to design guns, and studying other designs. I will never be unarmed because I can damn near make one from dirt (and I actually can make black powder from dirt).

    I'll be just damned, that's a good trick I need someone like you to teach me. Since it takes sulphur, salt peter, and charcoal to make gunpowder I'd just LOVE to see you make it from dirt, but maybe I'm just too stupid to understand how.

    But to stick to the debate at hand, if indeed a convicted rapist or murderer or other "crime of violence" should get their 2A right returned it is beyond me why? How many of these types once released (and that too boggles my mind) go out into civil society and then turn right back and repeat their crimes? Tis my humble opinion that they should be hung, but again, that's just my opinion.
    Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man. Thomas Jefferson

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    I doubt that anyone wants to give a murderer or rapist a gun, (they will have them anyhow), we are simply aware that the liberals are over using the stigma that comes with the term "felony" to usurp our God given constitutionaly backed right. They are throwing the word felony around like candy at a parade in an effort to get a few more guns, and gun owners out of their way for good.

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    Regular Member Alexcabbie's Avatar
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    KansasMustang wrote:
    Ixtow you said: I spent 5 years learning how to design guns, and studying other designs. I will never be unarmed because I can damn near make one from dirt (and I actually can make black powder from dirt).

    I'll be just damned, that's a good trick I need someone like you to teach me. Since it takes sulphur, salt peter, and charcoal to make gunpowder I'd just LOVE to see you make it from dirt, but maybe I'm just too stupid to understand how.

    But to stick to the debate at hand, if indeed a convicted rapist or murderer or other "crime of violence" should get their 2A right returned it is beyond me why? How many of these types once released (and that too boggles my mind) go out into civil society and then turn right back and repeat their crimes? Tis my humble opinion that they should be hung, but again, that's just my opinion.
    I think what Ixtow meant was that black powder can be made from materials commonly found in nature. (yes, you have to burn wood for charcoal. Picky.):P

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    Alexcabbie wrote:
    I think what Ixtow meant was that black powder can be made from materials commonly found in nature. (yes, you have to burn wood for charcoal. Picky.):P"
    Yes, charcoal and sodium nitrate. But sulfur is not commonly found in nature.

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    Regular Member Alexcabbie's Avatar
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    It is under piles of old dog poop.

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    You're confused. Saltpeter can be made from guano, like bat's. If both oxidant and both 'fuels' are present in poo...the phrase "hammered dog snit" becomes explosive.

    Does no one else remember the bat-snit and FrootLoops bomb of the Sixties?

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    Ok ok you guys, why not just put up a recipie with instructions to make the stuff. And please include where to find these materials (in nature as well as the store).

    I have only seen this done once, I think it was in an NRA magazine. I would really like to know how to make powder from scratch, just for the sake of knowing how to do it.

    thanks

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    The proportions are on the Wikipedia at "gunpowder".

    Sulfur is, in nature, a not particularly common mineral. Mineral sulfur is good enough to make gunpowder. To separate sulfur from a sulfurous mineral compound, as it is more likely to be found, is beyond me here.

    Charcoal is - charcoal. It is not wood ash, that's where KOH for soap comes from.

    Saltpeter is made by steeping high grade guano in water, filtering and evaporating, then powdering the crystals left behind.

    As a kid I got sulfur from the drugstore where it was sold as a fungicide. Farmers powdered 'seed' seeds with sulfur from one year to the next planting.

    I made poor saltpeter from chicken snit, but good enough for proof of concept. I bought saltpeter, qua saltpeter the diuretic, from the same druggist. He had to know what I was doing because he had no problems selling me cyanide for my bug killing jars.

    By the time I was out of HS, I was comfortable making nitrogen triiodide and had had azides and picrates demonstrated - forty+ years ago. ANFO was just a tool.

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    Nitrogen triiodide: now there is some fun stuff.

    I rememberseeding a high school hall floor with pieces of paper coated with the stuff, and then having a great time watching people set off little explosions withpurple smoke as they walked through.

    (These days, no doubt such behavior not only gets one expelled, but placed on a watch list)

    Ah the geeky good old days . . .

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    MamaLiberty wrote:
    The real "felons" who rape, murder and commit other violent crime simply need to be eliminated on conviction - preferably on scene at the hands of their intended victims.

    Unfortunately, almost anything can be called a "felony" these days, and many otherwise innocent people are so branded.

    How they vote is their business, as with anyone else. That they are prevented from exercising their most basic human rights should be of concern to all of us.

    What activity in YOUR life will be persecuted as a "felony" next? Are you willing to give up your right to self defense because of that?


    Fully Agree with all the above comments !

    from another of my posts:

    If a person is convicted of a felony, then serves their time and whatever else, then they are done with a that felony crap and should be able to have the same Rights as you and I under the U.S. Constitution, therefore the law that says formerly convicted felons cannot have guns is illegal and pure BS.

    If you do not agree, then I suggest you read the U.S. Constitution word for word, not your opinion of what you think it says.

    P.S. Just for the record, all murders, rapist, robbery, child molster, theft of vehicles and horses and mules, any theft over $2000, drug "saler's and runner's", and any public servant hired, appointed, and/or elected that violates the U.S. Constitution or their State Constitution should be hung by the neck until dead on the Courthouse Square in full public view during daylight hours and left hanging for at least 72 hours unless the hanging position is needed to hang someone else, then the body should be dumped in a garbage dump.






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