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Thread: Is it really gold?

  1. #1
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    I realize the criteria used to declaring a gold star state. But, really, if you are a felon for paying for gas, grocery shopping, or walking into most restaurants, maybe it's just silver?

    This seems like a bigger problem than OC while in a vehicle. Prohibition of which gets a state labeled "Open Carry Friendly" instead. If someone doesn't dig a whole lot, just glances at the map... They could get into a lot of trouble if they assume that common-sense prevails in places that are labeled yellow. Sure, you have to do your own research... But I think it's a little deceptive. Most people wouldn't think about being banned from grocery and convenience stores, much less think to inquire about it. Some might think about a restaurant...

    But it really is an oddball and capricious gotcha lurking there, ready to make some unsuspecting rational person into a felon for no good reason any sane person would ever think of. Can a place with a booby trap like that really be a gold star state? To me, it seem almost as if the law was made with a malicious intent to persecute gun owners.

    It's irrational to regulate in the first place, and the punitive measure is way over the top.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

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    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

  2. #2
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    I think OCing is more of a problem when it comes to carrying everywhere (with no mismash of places off-limitsfor OCing) MAINLY due to the permitting system. I mean, no permit is required (good) but that also means no background check is done, so ANYONE can carry OC. Technically, that would mean even gangster punks/street-trash low-lifes, career criminals out on parole, etc.. How would THAT be sorted out?

    Yes, I think the (CC) permit system in itself is ILLEGAL - and HAS been since Day One --but that's another issue. And I am FOR OCing for everyone -- kind of -- yet I have to askagain, how do you sort out the low-life trash?

    Buteven CCing is a nightmare due to the same issue: Places you can CC and places you can NOT CC.

    The many different laws in each state saying where a CC permit holder can or can not carry is a nightmare...and that's within his/her own state, let alone when he/she travels toANOTHER state and might have to travel through even more states to get there...all with differentCC laws.

    It's outrageous and ridiculous...and even insulting to a CC permit holder as the message I get is"the authorites" REALLYdon't trust CC holders. Kind of, but not quite.

    YetCC people have paid good $$$ -- as well as time -- to go through their state's background check/class time in order to get said CC permit...so if they are found qualified to carry concealed, why are these people still considered (apparently) some sort of "danger" or "threat" in certain places, but not so other places? That's a non sequitur.

    There shouldn't be anythis piecemeal crap where CC people can carry here but not there: It should be everywhere. And an extra bonus of that would bethat a CC person wouldn't have to review (constantly)where he/she is going -- or pull out a list of"no CC zones"and check them off -- in order to avoid inadvertently breaking the law CCing into a place NOT authorized for CC.

    I can see (kind of) how allowing free and non-permittedOC everywhere by everyone MIGHT be problematical (in that people could carry with no backgound check whatsoever)which would mean that even street-trash POS gangster punks could OC everywhere -- "innocent until proven guilty, regardless of their obvious gangster looks and "colors" they wear...I mean, we can't be "discriminatory" now, can we ;-) -- and if said POS trash are stopped and "harrassed " by cops, they'd scream "profiling" (or the usual "racism" BS). IMV, that's TS for them...they deserve whatever harrassment they get (and lots more) jsut looking like the eyesores they are.

    Whatever,the issue of OCing EVERYWHERE is a more complicated topic.

    But re: CCing, if someone has gone through the legal process of getting a CHL and is qualified to CC/issued a permit, I see no reason to put ANY area off lmits to them:CC/permitted people are either trusted all the way or they are not.

    Presently, they apparently are not.

    [Like our military men/women who aren't trusted enough to be allowed to carry arms on their own military bases]

    -- John D.

    (formerly of Colorado Springs, CO)

  3. #3
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    cloudcroft wrote:
    I think OCing is more of a problem when it comes to carrying everywhere (with no mismash of places off-limitsfor OCing) MAINLY due to the permitting system. I mean, no permit is required (good) but that also means no background check is done, so ANYONE can carry OC. Technically, that would mean even gangster punks/street-trash low-lifes, career criminals out on parole, etc.. How would THAT be sorted out?
    Virtually everyone would consider me 'low-life trash.' I'm not rich, I hate this system of society and want no part of it, I dare to think, and I am severely punished for it, etc... Does that mean I don't have any Rights? Well, don't answer that, I already know I don't. I digress...

    I am not trying to insult New Mexico. I'm just saying that this is a big 'gotcha' for a place off-limits, that no rational person would think of. I really don't think it should be yellow on the map when a gun owner is banned from grocery shopping and convenience stores.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

  4. #4
    Regular Member Sonora Rebel's Avatar
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    cloudcroft wrote:
    I think OCing is more of a problem when it comes to carrying everywhere (with no mismash of places off-limitsfor OCing) MAINLY due to the permitting system. I mean, no permit is required (good) but that also means no background check is done, so ANYONE can carry OC. Technically, that would mean even gangster punks/street-trash low-lifes, career criminals out on parole, etc.. How would THAT be sorted out?

    Yes, I think the (CC) permit system in itself is ILLEGAL - and HAS been since Day One --but that's another issue. And I am FOR OCing for everyone -- kind of -- yet I have to askagain, how do you sort out the low-life trash?

    Buteven CCing is a nightmare due to the same issue: Places you can CC and places you can NOT CC.

    The many different laws in each state saying where a CC permit holder can or can not carry is a nightmare...and that's within his/her own state, let alone when he/she travels toANOTHER state and might have to travel through even more states to get there...all with differentCC laws.

    It's outrageous and ridiculous...and even insulting to a CC permit holder as the message I get is"the authorites" REALLYdon't trust CC holders. Kind of, but not quite.

    YetCC people have paid good $$$ -- as well as time -- to go through their state's background check/class time in order to get said CC permit...so if they are found qualified to carry concealed, why are these people still considered (apparently) some sort of "danger" or "threat" in certain places, but not so other places? That's a non sequitur.

    There shouldn't be anythis piecemeal crap where CC people can carry here but not there: It should be everywhere. And an extra bonus of that would bethat a CC person wouldn't have to review (constantly)where he/she is going -- or pull out a list of"no CC zones"and check them off -- in order to avoid inadvertently breaking the law CCing into a place NOT authorized for CC.

    I can see (kind of) how allowing free and non-permittedOC everywhere by everyone MIGHT be problematical (in that people could carry with no backgound check whatsoever)which would mean that even street-trash POS gangster punks could OC everywhere -- "innocent until proven guilty, regardless of their obvious gangster looks and "colors" they wear...I mean, we can't be "discriminatory" now, can we ;-) -- and if said POS trash are stopped and "harrassed " by cops, they'd scream "profiling" (or the usual "racism" BS). IMV, that's TS for them...they deserve whatever harrassment they get (and lots more) jsut looking like the eyesores they are.

    Whatever,the issue of OCing EVERYWHERE is a more complicated topic.

    But re: CCing, if someone has gone through the legal process of getting a CHL and is qualified to CC/issued a permit, I see no reason to put ANY area off lmits to them:CC/permitted people are either trusted all the way or they are not.

    Presently, they apparently are not.

    [Like our military men/women who aren't trusted enough to be allowed to carry arms on their own military bases]

    -- John D.
    You seem to be squirming in the jaws of a dillemma. It's real simple. OC... a Right. Dirtbag or not... until you screw it up with 'behavior'. OK... act responsibly. That's all it takes. Nobody... no government can legislate human behavior. Conduct yourself and affairs in a civilized manner 'n the world is your oyster. The 'honor' system.

    'Trouble is... people don't trust other people. Oh... they might say they do... but they don't by 'n large. So... they enact laws to control 'you'... 'n me... 'n everybody. Laws that have no other purpose but to limit what the hell you can and cannot do... even if it's civilized 'n innocent. That's 'perception'... and admittedly, perception goes a long way toward the manufacture of such 'laws'.

    Then you have the JBT power trippers who exist to project 'control' on behalf of their government masters.... and their own 'fraternity' of JBTcontrol freaks. This creates a three tiered society... The State, The Citizens (and) The Criminals. In such a system... The State is omnipotent and views everyone as potential criminals or threats to their authority. Citizensbecome prey to both the State and the Criminal element. After a few days on Officer.com I'm ashamed to admit I once was a cop. Tha JBT attitude is endemic... particularly in CA. It was bad whenI lived there... 'n it's worse now. I have never experienced any military base or post or station where anyone not on armed 'watch' or guard wasroutinely armed with the exception of Vietnam and then... not even there.

  5. #5
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Sonora Rebel wrote:
    cloudcroft wrote:
    I think OCing is more of a problem when it comes to carrying everywhere (with no mismash of places off-limitsfor OCing) MAINLY due to the permitting system. I mean, no permit is required (good) but that also means no background check is done, so ANYONE can carry OC. Technically, that would mean even gangster punks/street-trash low-lifes, career criminals out on parole, etc.. How would THAT be sorted out?

    Yes, I think the (CC) permit system in itself is ILLEGAL - and HAS been since Day One --but that's another issue. And I am FOR OCing for everyone -- kind of -- yet I have to askagain, how do you sort out the low-life trash?

    Buteven CCing is a nightmare due to the same issue: Places you can CC and places you can NOT CC.

    The many different laws in each state saying where a CC permit holder can or can not carry is a nightmare...and that's within his/her own state, let alone when he/she travels toANOTHER state and might have to travel through even more states to get there...all with differentCC laws.

    It's outrageous and ridiculous...and even insulting to a CC permit holder as the message I get is"the authorites" REALLYdon't trust CC holders. Kind of, but not quite.

    YetCC people have paid good $$$ -- as well as time -- to go through their state's background check/class time in order to get said CC permit...so if they are found qualified to carry concealed, why are these people still considered (apparently) some sort of "danger" or "threat" in certain places, but not so other places? That's a non sequitur.

    There shouldn't be anythis piecemeal crap where CC people can carry here but not there: It should be everywhere. And an extra bonus of that would bethat a CC person wouldn't have to review (constantly)where he/she is going -- or pull out a list of"no CC zones"and check them off -- in order to avoid inadvertently breaking the law CCing into a place NOT authorized for CC.

    I can see (kind of) how allowing free and non-permittedOC everywhere by everyone MIGHT be problematical (in that people could carry with no backgound check whatsoever)which would mean that even street-trash POS gangster punks could OC everywhere -- "innocent until proven guilty, regardless of their obvious gangster looks and "colors" they wear...I mean, we can't be "discriminatory" now, can we ;-) -- and if said POS trash are stopped and "harrassed " by cops, they'd scream "profiling" (or the usual "racism" BS). IMV, that's TS for them...they deserve whatever harrassment they get (and lots more) jsut looking like the eyesores they are.

    Whatever,the issue of OCing EVERYWHERE is a more complicated topic.

    But re: CCing, if someone has gone through the legal process of getting a CHL and is qualified to CC/issued a permit, I see no reason to put ANY area off lmits to them:CC/permitted people are either trusted all the way or they are not.

    Presently, they apparently are not.

    [Like our military men/women who aren't trusted enough to be allowed to carry arms on their own military bases]

    -- John D.
    You seem to be squirming in the jaws of a dillemma. It's real simple. OC... a Right. Dirtbag or not... until you screw it up with 'behavior'. OK... act responsibly. That's all it takes. Nobody... no government can legislate human behavior. Conduct yourself and affairs in a civilized manner 'n the world is your oyster. The 'honor' system.

    'Trouble is... people don't trust other people. Oh... they might say they do... but they don't by 'n large. So... they enact laws to control 'you'... 'n me... 'n everybody. Laws that have no other purpose but to limit what the hell you can and cannot do... even if it's civilized 'n innocent. That's 'perception'... and admittedly, perception goes a long way toward the manufacture of such 'laws'.

    Then you have the JBT power trippers who exist to project 'control' on behalf of their government masters.... and their own 'fraternity' of JBTcontrol freaks. This creates a three tiered society... The State, The Citizens (and) The Criminals. In such a system... The State is omnipotent and views everyone as potential criminals or threats to their authority. Citizensbecome prey to both the State and the Criminal element. After a few days on Officer.com I'm ashamed to admit I once was a cop. Tha JBT attitude is endemic... particularly in CA. It was bad whenI lived there... 'n it's worse now. I have never experienced any military base or post or station where anyone not on armed 'watch' or guard wasroutinely armed with the exception of Vietnam and then... not even there.
    + a bajillion

    I'm still waiting to hear the explanation of how being helpless and enabling criminals equates to mature, smart, civilized, intelligent, reasonable, common-sense, or even borderline humane....

    Still no one who promotes helplessness, and enforcing that handicap upon others, has ever been able to explain how it is in any way sensible. Not even once.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

  6. #6
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    "Conduct yourself and affairs in a civilized manner 'n the world is your oyster. The 'honor' system." -- Sonora Rebel


    Sure, dream on...as if the millions of low-lifes in the world will suddenly start behaving. They won't, that's why they are trash criminal lowlifes in the first place. I agree with you, however, thatit's all about behavior.

    Still, be prepared to shoot an awful lot of people...but the good news is that eventually, the trash will be hard to find as slowly but surely, they'd be "atritted" big-time.

    -- John D.
    (formerly of Colorado Springs, CO)

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