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Flat Rock, MI Gun Ban

Franktroplis

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Jun 15, 2009
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77
Location
Taylor, Michigan, USA
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Sec. 58-238. Possession of weapons. It shall be unlawful for any person to use, carry or possess firearms of any description, air guns, spring guns, bow and arrows, slings or any other form of weapon potentially inimical to wildlife and also dangerous to human safety or any instrument that can be loaded with and fire blank cartridges. (Code 1979, § 9.157)
 

Haman J.T.

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Feb 5, 2008
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mudvr1212 wrote:
You're beating me toeach on of theseposts....SLOW DOWN!!!



Good work though :celebrate
I lived in Monroe for the first 30 years of my life.I pretty much grew up with no crime.Now I'm in Warren where criminals and cops are all over the place.Hope things are good down there.This place has turned me into a right wing extremist,ready for war!LOL!
 

mudvr1212

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Dec 14, 2009
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Monroe, Michigan, USA
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There have been a few bank robberies in Monroe in the past few years. The bank in Maybee was robbed/or attempted robberylike 5 times in 2 years!!!

There isn't much, but with this economy people do stupid s#it!



I work up on the south side of Detroit and I am always watching my surroudings.
 

SlowDog

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Aug 17, 2009
Messages
424
Location
Redford, Michigan, USA
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hamaneggs wrote:
mudvr1212 wrote:
You're beating me toeach on of theseposts....SLOW DOWN!!!



Good work though :celebrate
I lived in Monroe for the first 30 years of my life.I pretty much grew up with no crime.Now I'm in Warren where criminals and cops are all over the place.Hope things are good down there.This place has turned me into a right wing extremist,ready for war!LOL
My question is....."How hard is it to tell the difference between the two?":lol::quirky
 

Smithc11369

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Jan 6, 2010
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Location
Saline, Michigan, USA
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Is this just a city ordinance that the city posted but doesn't really matter? According to 123.1102 of the State of Michigan it states:

"A local unit of government shall not impose special taxation on, enact or enforce any ordinance or regulation pertaining to, or regulate in any other manner the ownership, registration, purchase, sale, transfer, transportation, or possession of pistols or other firearms, ammunition for pistols or other firearms, or components of pistols or other firearms, except as otherwise provided by federal law or a law of this state."

So with that, has this ordinance been approved by the state saying that it's OK and completely legit or does the State override the city in this case?
 

sprinklerguy28

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Dec 9, 2009
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666
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Michigan
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Letter Sent to the city of Flat Rock,


Dear Flat Rock Officials,

I have become aware of an illegal and unenforceable ordinance you havein regards to restricting the carrying and possessing of firearms.
Sec. 58-238. Possession of weapons. It shall be unlawful for any person to use, carry or possess firearms of any description, air guns, spring guns, bow and arrows, slings or any other form of weapon potentially inimical to wildlife and also dangerous to human safety or any instrument that can be loaded with and fire blank cartridges. (Code 1979, § 9.157)
As you may or may not know, in 1990 the State of Michigan passed MCL 123.1102 which provides, in pertinent part: A local unit of government shall not impose special taxation on, enact or enforce any ordinance or regulation pertaining to, or regulate in any other manner the ownership, registration, purchase, sale, transfer, transportation, or possession of pistols or other firearms, ammunition for pistols or other firearms, or components of pistols or other firearms, except as otherwise provided by federal law or a law of this state.

In MCRGO v. Ferndale, the Michigan Court of Appeals held that local units of government may not impose restrictions upon firearms possession.

THE MICHIGAN APPEALS COURT CONCLUDED: April 29, 2003 9:10 am. v No. 242237

In sum, we conclude that § 1102 is a statute that specifically imposes a prohibition on local units of government from enacting and enforcing any ordinances or regulations pertaining to the transportation and possession of firearms, and thus preempts any ordinance or regulation of a local unit of government concerning these areas.

Further, we conclude that the specific language of the 2000 amendments to MCL 28.421 et seq., particularly §§ 5c and 5o, which were adopted more than a decade after the enactment of § 1102, do not repeal § 1102 or otherwise reopen this area to local regulation of the carrying of firearms.17 Accordingly, we hold that the Ferndale ordinance is preempted by state law and, consequently, we reverse.

My hope is that you amend this ordinance that restricts the right to carry a firearm to comply with state law. Failure to do so may be considered an act of malfeasance as it willfully misinforms the public. I look forward to your response and resolution in this matter.
Respectfully,
Scott Webb
South East Coordinator
Michigan Open Carry, Inc.



This is the response received



Mr. Webb,
I have sent your email on to the city attorney. He is the one who recommends any changes in city ordinances.
Neal A. Rossow
Chief of Police
City of Flat Rock
25500 Gibraltar Rd.
Flat Rock, MI 48134
(734) 782-2496
FBINA #212
 

lil_freak_66

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Joined
Sep 8, 2008
Messages
1,799
Location
Mason, Michigan
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Smithc11369 wrote:
Is this just a city ordinance that the city posted but doesn't really matter? According to 123.1102 of the State of Michigan it states:

"A local unit of government shall not impose special taxation on, enact or enforce any ordinance or regulation pertaining to, or regulate in any other manner the ownership, registration, purchase, sale, transfer, transportation, or possession of pistols or other firearms, ammunition for pistols or other firearms, or components of pistols or other firearms, except as otherwise provided by federal law or a law of this state."

So with that, has this ordinance been approved by the state saying that it's OK and completely legit or does the State override the city in this case?

state has complete preemption.



unlawful orninance,probably made before the state decided on preemption.
 

taxwhat

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2008
Messages
800
Location
S E Michgan all mine, Michigan, USA
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lil_freak_66 wrote:
Smithc11369 wrote:
Is this just a city ordinance that the city posted but doesn't really matter? According to 123.1102 of the State of Michigan it states:

"A local unit of government shall not impose special taxation on, enact or enforce any ordinance or regulation pertaining to, or regulate in any other manner the ownership, registration, purchase, sale, transfer, transportation, or possession of pistols or other firearms, ammunition for pistols or other firearms, or components of pistols or other firearms, except as otherwise provided by federal law or a law of this state."

So with that, has this ordinance been approved by the state saying that it's OK and completely legit or does the State override the city in this case?

state has complete preemption.



unlawful ordinance,probably made before the state decided on preemption.
A small group of us meet in Flat Rock a year or so ago . Told City we would be there in restaurant on US 24 . Great Time -good food no big deal .
 

sprinklerguy28

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Joined
Dec 9, 2009
Messages
666
Location
Michigan
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iheartglock wrote:
whatever happened with the flat rock thing? that is where i live.

It is in the hands of the city attorney right now. As things usually move slow in these matters, I'll wait 30 days and then contact again. If nothing has progressed then I will attempt to attend a city council meeting.
 

sprinklerguy28

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Joined
Dec 9, 2009
Messages
666
Location
Michigan
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Received a email response from Chief Rossow.


February 5, 2010

Mr. Webb,
I wanted to keep you updated on ordinance Sec. 58-238. I contacted the City Attorney and he is working on the changes in the ordinance language. As I mentioned before, he is the one who makes any suggestions reference changing ordinances. He believes he will have something before council within the next 30 days.
Respectfully,
Neal A. Rossow
Chief of Police
City of Flat Rock
25500 Gibraltar Rd.
Flat Rock , MI 48134
(734) 782-2496
 

sprinklerguy28

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Joined
Dec 9, 2009
Messages
666
Location
Michigan
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Received this email Friday 2/26/10.

Another win for us.

Mr. Webb,
The first reading of the new ordinance will be Monday, March 1, 2010. Ordinances must be “read” twice before they can be adopted.

Respectfully,
Neal A. Rossow
Chief of Police
City of Flat Rock
25500 Gibraltar Rd.
Flat Rock , MI 48134
(734) 782-2496
 

James_Liv_Co

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Joined
Aug 17, 2009
Messages
18
Location
Howell, Michigan, USA
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The key is to give them time to research it themselves, figure out that you are correct, then figure out how to quietly change the ordinance without making a big deal out of it.

Patience, persistence, and diplomacy works wonders.
 

American Sheepdog

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Joined
Nov 24, 2009
Messages
148
Location
Alpena, Michigan, USA
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Arm yourself (open carry) and walk into city council and confront them like I did. I will soon be going back because It's been over 3 months and no change. This time I remind the city attorney of the oath he took. I will also have papers in my hand to petition the ATTORNEY GENERAL ON THE MATTER IF THEY DO NOT STRIKE THE FIREARMS LANGUAGE BEFORE COUNCIL ADJOURNS.
yOU GOTTA FIGHT THESE PEOPLE FACE TO FACE. YOU WILL GET THEIR ATTENTION. WRITING LETTERS TO THEM IS A WASTE OF TIME.
 

sprinklerguy28

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Joined
Dec 9, 2009
Messages
666
Location
Michigan
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American Sheepdog wrote:
Arm yourself (open carry) and walk into city council and confront them like I did. I will soon be going back because It's been over 3 months and no change. This time I remind the city attorney of the oath he took. I will also have papers in my hand to petition the ATTORNEY GENERAL ON THE MATTER IF THEY DO NOT STRIKE THE FIREARMS LANGUAGE BEFORE COUNCIL ADJOURNS.
yOU GOTTA FIGHT THESE PEOPLE FACE TO FACE. YOU WILL GET THEIR ATTENTION. WRITING LETTERS TO THEM IS A WASTE OF TIME.

Writing letters is the first step. I have posted before about other cities I've written and they have corrected their ordinances immediately. Remember there are steps to handle things to show we are the educated, respectable law abiding citizens.
 
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