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Thread: Verteran OC'ers.. Need your help!

  1. #1
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    So I have been in contact with a certain individual who has the authority to contact Jerry Brown, our Attorney General. The Attorney General frequently gives opinions on certain issues or laws. He may only take these requests from judges, Ca agencies..etc. Due to the recent abuses we have seen by not only SunnyVale and LAPD, the indivudual would like more information and proof on this matter of the violation on our groups4a rights.

    Here is an excerpt of his request...

    "I was unable to open your link, so before I write to the AG I need more information. Can you give me information that would support a wide spread, or at least frequent in any given area, practice as you describe. If I don't provide some evidence of some sort of regular abuse of the code I fear the request will be dismissed as an unfounded assertion."

    There you have it, I can easily send him the pages from the SunnyVale PD, though I am not as familiar with the certain violations or conspiracy in the emails as to how they are trying to criminalize us when we are in fact doing nothing wrong. Also, any videos you could provide would help as well. Please have them placed onto youtube so they are much easier to watch on any computer. If you could PM me specifics or links it would be of a great help. This has to be perfect before I send it out, I would like to have everything by Monday. Thank you everyone for your help.

    Mike Stollenwerk commented earlier on whyno one hasdone anything here in CAabout this 12031e abuse. Maybe if the powers that be at Cal Guns find it fit we do not bring this up to Jerry Brown at this moment due to 2a not being incorporated yet, please let me know as well, this can always be put on hold. Although due to Browns recent pro-2a opinions I doubt this will do any harm.

    I will be gone until tomorrow. Thanks again.







  2. #2
    Regular Member mjones's Avatar
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    If I understand you correctly, you are looking for an AG Opinion on the Constitutionality (4th ammendment) of CA PC 12031(e)

    In other words, as narrow a scope as possible...



    I'm certainly not even remotely an expert on what will happen, but essentially there are only two outcomes.

    1) He agrees with existing case-law that a legislated inspection doesn't violate the 4a - similar to Smog Checkpoints

    2) He says it violates the 4a, and instructs the 58 DAs to disregard prosecution.

    My gut says that he would side with existing case-law. For all I know, its possible that he's actually bound by case-law.

    If he were to actually side with us, uninformed LEOs are still fully capable of arrest if you don't submit to the inspection until their qualified immunity is pierced for that issue.

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    I think I have something good for you. Transcript of Sunnyvale PD violating my rights (+audio if really needed), a complaint letter of my 4a being violated, and their response that says they didn't violate any of their policies, therefore they did nothing wrong (my complaint was about constitutional rights violations, not department policies)
    When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty.

  4. #4
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    mjones wrote:
    If I understand you correctly, you are looking for an AG Opinion on the Constitutionality (4th ammendment) of CA PC 12031(e)

    In other words, as narrow a scope as possible...



    I'm certainly not even remotely an expert on what will happen, but essentially there are only two outcomes.

    1) He agrees with existing case-law that a legislated inspection doesn't violate the 4a - similar to Smog Checkpoints

    2) He says it violates the 4a, and instructs the 58 DAs to disregard prosecution.

    My gut says that he would side with existing case-law. For all I know, its possible that he's actually bound by case-law.

    If he were to actually side with us, uninformed LEOs are still fully capable of arrest if you don't submit to the inspection until their qualified immunity is pierced for that issue.
    I am not looking for him to say 12031 violates 4a just yet, I am looking for him to issue a statement to all LEA's in California to not draw upon citizens or place in handcuffs and humiliate people doing nothing wrong. Basically setting the perfect standard for a 12031e check.

    edit: oh and of course this includes... NOT TO ARREST OC'ers. lol

  5. #5
    Newbie cato's Avatar
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    mjones wrote:
    you are looking for an AG Opinion on the Constitutionality (4th amendment) of CA PC 12031(e)
    CA courts have already addressed this in People v DeLong. So I don't see him going against that.

    What our issue is (IMO) is when the unobtrusive "e" "inspection" described by the DeLong courtis actually a not free to leave detention / arrest / unwarranted searches of data bases, IDs, wallets, vehiclesand pat downs ...all absent RAS to investigate or PC to arrest.

    But really any opinion (AG opinions are veryextensivelegal documents that take time to create) that MAY be issued is not really going to be available for use prior to incorp. And I doubt with the specter of incorp. effecting these issues and 12031 being a player (along with 12025, 12050)before the 9th Circuit in "Sykes", that his office will issue ANY opinion at all at this time (or anytime before incorp. or Sykes is final).

    I think your idea is great on it's face and as an isolated 4th A issue. Butwhat this "formal request" by someone able to do so would also accomplish is toraise UOCs political radar at a time we really don't want it.

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  7. #7
    Regular Member coolusername2007's Avatar
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    1. Getthe recent San Pedro videos and audio

    2. Getthe recentnews story in Livermore (?) with the cops requiring the UOC'er to stand up against the wall and the reading out loud of the serial number, and the cop behind the wall with an AR.

    3. Get the audioto Wolfenstein's detainment at the bookstore

    4. Get the case files on Theseus' trial, how his ID was illegally obtained and was later subsequently charged and convicted because of that illegal search and seizure.

    5.Go tothecaliforniaopencarry.org and look up the multitude of encounters where LEO's have over-stepped their bounds and violated UOC'ers rights. Some of those might be a bit dated, but still relevant and they prove along with the current video that little has changed.

    And there's much more out there...meaning here in OCDO you'll just have to dig a little (or a lot).

    You're efforts are admirable and should be undertaken, regardless if they decide to offer an opinion or not. That's their call, not yours sodon't self limit, do it.

    And as far as bringing UOC into the spotlight, so what, this is a 4A issue, and the 4th equally applies to liberties practiced little just as much as those liberties practiced widely.


    ETA: Oh, and get the eye-witness' account of the UOC detainment at the Walmart in Murrietta.
    "Why should judicial precedent bind the nation if the Constitution itself does not?" -- Mark Levin

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    Regular Member Ranchero's Avatar
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    Do you know the 4th. ammendment?

    Gen. Michael Hayden doesn't.

    http://www.youtube.com/user/chrisfro.../2/rpFEr7d1M9c
    FREEDOM.

  9. #9
    Regular Member Mike Hunt's Avatar
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    Army wrote: Dang, beat me to it. :P

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