rcawdor57
Campaign Veteran
imported post
Simply put the person who fills out the 4473 form is the owner regardless of how it is paid for. You are making this way too hard. I can assure you that paying for a firearm that is not yours is 100% legal since the 4473 form is the document that "transfers" the firearm. Here, let me give you an example:
I order 6 firearms from 6 different distributors for 6 different people. I have no idea if any of those 6 individuals are "prohibited" when the order is placed. I use my personal credit card to order these firearms using the FFL of the owner of the store for the receiving FFL. All firearms are shipped to the FFL with MY NAME on the invoice for ALL 6 FIREARMS even though the FFL is NOT in my name. So far I have paid for 6 firearms with my own money yet they are shipped to someone else's FFL. That is how it is done thousands of times a day in this country. Nothing illegal about this at all. Now on with the example...The 6 individuals that wanted those 6 firearms now enter the store and fill out the 4473 form. Once the NIC's check is done and handgun transfer paperwork (for Wisconsin if applicable) is done and everything is satisfactory the firearm can be "transferred" to each of these people REGARDLESS of who paid for them. If some person with extra cash is standing in front of my local gun store handing out one hundred dollar bills and I use that money to buy a gun for myself is that a straw purchase? No. Of course not. The firearm is transferred to me, not him and retained by me.
Another example which is also 100% legal. I call a firearms distributor let's say in the Shotgun News. I order an AR-15 (or whatever) and pay for it with my credit card but have it shipped to my neighbor who has an FFL. So the first transfer is from the distributor to the FFL (neighbor) but I PAID FOR IT and the invoice is in MY NAME. Legal? Absolutely! Once the FFL receives it he/she has me fill out the 4473 form and if all goes well it is then "transferred" to me.
The exact same thing is applicable for all these "gun raffles" we see from the NRA, car dealers, banks (yes, there are a few), etc....they pay for the firearm yet I receive it through a 4473 transfer. Nothing illegal about this at all. Whoever fills out the 4473 is the owner regardless of who pays for it.
By the way, I have done every example above except the "raffle" many, many times and still have the paperwork to prove it. In the gun store I worked in for every special order firearm we would have the person pay for it up front using their credit card yet the firearm was shipped to the store owners FFL. The invoice had the FFL as the legal receiver of the firearm but the invoice would be in the customer's name as the payer. Legal? Absolutely.
Oh, another example I just remembered: I bought 3 Russian M44's and 3 German K98k's using my neighbor's FFL. The firearms were purchased using my credit card but shipped to the FFL. Invoice is in my name as payer but FFL is receiver. I then fill out the 4473 forms for the rifles and pay the NIC's fee and transfer fee charged by my FFL neighbor ($25 per firearm). Legal? Absolutely. Now I decide to sell said firearms to my co-workers. I take said firearm to my FFL neighbor and he has my co-workers fill out the 4473 forms. Once the NIC's check is done and satisfactory the rifles are transferred to my co-workers. My co-workers pay the FFL holder a transfer fee of (usually) $25 each and the deal is done. Legal? Absolutely. Did they pay the FFL holder for each rifle? Nope. They paid me. This is exactly how our politicians WANT us to transfer each and every firearm to another person in a private sale....by using an FFL holder and having the 4473 form filled out and a NICs check done. To be on the safe side I usually do this when selling my firearms to someone I do not know.
No where have I said I bought a firearm, transferred it to me using the 4473 and then handed it to someone else. That would be illegal.
Simply put the person who fills out the 4473 form is the owner regardless of how it is paid for. You are making this way too hard. I can assure you that paying for a firearm that is not yours is 100% legal since the 4473 form is the document that "transfers" the firearm. Here, let me give you an example:
I order 6 firearms from 6 different distributors for 6 different people. I have no idea if any of those 6 individuals are "prohibited" when the order is placed. I use my personal credit card to order these firearms using the FFL of the owner of the store for the receiving FFL. All firearms are shipped to the FFL with MY NAME on the invoice for ALL 6 FIREARMS even though the FFL is NOT in my name. So far I have paid for 6 firearms with my own money yet they are shipped to someone else's FFL. That is how it is done thousands of times a day in this country. Nothing illegal about this at all. Now on with the example...The 6 individuals that wanted those 6 firearms now enter the store and fill out the 4473 form. Once the NIC's check is done and handgun transfer paperwork (for Wisconsin if applicable) is done and everything is satisfactory the firearm can be "transferred" to each of these people REGARDLESS of who paid for them. If some person with extra cash is standing in front of my local gun store handing out one hundred dollar bills and I use that money to buy a gun for myself is that a straw purchase? No. Of course not. The firearm is transferred to me, not him and retained by me.
Another example which is also 100% legal. I call a firearms distributor let's say in the Shotgun News. I order an AR-15 (or whatever) and pay for it with my credit card but have it shipped to my neighbor who has an FFL. So the first transfer is from the distributor to the FFL (neighbor) but I PAID FOR IT and the invoice is in MY NAME. Legal? Absolutely! Once the FFL receives it he/she has me fill out the 4473 form and if all goes well it is then "transferred" to me.
The exact same thing is applicable for all these "gun raffles" we see from the NRA, car dealers, banks (yes, there are a few), etc....they pay for the firearm yet I receive it through a 4473 transfer. Nothing illegal about this at all. Whoever fills out the 4473 is the owner regardless of who pays for it.
By the way, I have done every example above except the "raffle" many, many times and still have the paperwork to prove it. In the gun store I worked in for every special order firearm we would have the person pay for it up front using their credit card yet the firearm was shipped to the store owners FFL. The invoice had the FFL as the legal receiver of the firearm but the invoice would be in the customer's name as the payer. Legal? Absolutely.
Oh, another example I just remembered: I bought 3 Russian M44's and 3 German K98k's using my neighbor's FFL. The firearms were purchased using my credit card but shipped to the FFL. Invoice is in my name as payer but FFL is receiver. I then fill out the 4473 forms for the rifles and pay the NIC's fee and transfer fee charged by my FFL neighbor ($25 per firearm). Legal? Absolutely. Now I decide to sell said firearms to my co-workers. I take said firearm to my FFL neighbor and he has my co-workers fill out the 4473 forms. Once the NIC's check is done and satisfactory the rifles are transferred to my co-workers. My co-workers pay the FFL holder a transfer fee of (usually) $25 each and the deal is done. Legal? Absolutely. Did they pay the FFL holder for each rifle? Nope. They paid me. This is exactly how our politicians WANT us to transfer each and every firearm to another person in a private sale....by using an FFL holder and having the 4473 form filled out and a NICs check done. To be on the safe side I usually do this when selling my firearms to someone I do not know.
No where have I said I bought a firearm, transferred it to me using the 4473 and then handed it to someone else. That would be illegal.