Citizen's Arrest

icepik · Jan 13, 2010

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Glock34 wrote:

then scream please stop, please stop , I will defend myself ..then the 911 lady hears... BANG, BANG !!! then you tell her in a very upset, frightened voice that you had no choice, he was coming at you with a weapon (( make sure he has a weapon )) if your gonna use lethal force.

Bang Bang? You wasted 2 rounds on him? Plus I didn't know chains went bang bang?

Oh wait, that wasn't the point of the story here? :celebrate

Nutczak · Jan 13, 2010

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gollbladder13 wrote:

There may be no duty to retreat, but you can't just shoot somebody for entering your home.

True, but hopefully that will change when we get a solid castle doctrine in WI.

Besides, the first reaction when threatened SHOULD be to retreat, separate, and avoid. Anything before that could be considered more aggressive than "the least amount of force necessary".

"The least amount of force necessary"
What exactly would be the least amount of force necessary?
should you first try to stop the threat with a .22LR target-pistol instead of the .357Mag?
Or if you see the intruder has a knife, would you try to counter with a knife instead of a gun?

If someone would be stupid enough to break into my home with the intent to injure or kill any of us, I would come at them with everything I had first and foremost toneutralize that threat by any means possible. I am not going to contemplate what the city attorney might consider excessive force in a situation where the sanctity of my home (castle) has been violated.

Do you honestly think any jury would send you to jail for defending your family against an attacker because you gun was a larger caliber then the attacker had with them?

lets review the current laws on use of force again;

939.48 Self−defense and defense of others. (1) A person is privileged to threaten or intentionally use force against another for the purpose of preventing or terminating what the person reasonably believes to be an unlawful interference with his or her person by such other person. The actor may intentionally use only such force or threat thereof as the actor reasonably believes is necessary to prevent or terminate the interference. The actor may not intentionally use force which is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm unless the actor reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself.

Nowhere does it state that you cannot use a gun against a person weilding a baseball bat, screwdriver, knife or whatever else the decided to use an offensive weapon.
The law only requires me to believe that my life or health is in danger before ending that intruders life by any means I have available.

GLOCK21GB · Jan 13, 2010

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icepik wrote:

Glock34 wrote:

then scream please stop, please stop , I will defend myself ..then the 911 lady hears... BANG, BANG !!! then you tell her in a very upset, frightened voice that you had no choice, he was coming at you with a weapon (( make sure he has a weapon )) if your gonna use lethal force.

Click to expand...

Bang Bang? You wasted 2 rounds on him? Plus I didn't know chains went bang bang?

Oh wait, that wasn't the point of the story here? :celebrate

ever go to the Lime Kiln park ? on the Milwaukee river nice place, been there many times. Cedarburg is a nice little town too nice little shops. My Grandmother lived there for 50 years so i spent many a summer there.

icepik · Jan 13, 2010

imported post

Glock34 wrote:

icepik wrote:

Glock34 wrote:

then scream please stop, please stop , I will defend myself ..then the 911 lady hears... BANG, BANG !!! then you tell her in a very upset, frightened voice that you had no choice, he was coming at you with a weapon (( make sure he has a weapon )) if your gonna use lethal force.

Click to expand...

Bang Bang? You wasted 2 rounds on him? Plus I didn't know chains went bang bang?

Oh wait, that wasn't the point of the story here? :celebrate

Click to expand...

ever go to the Lime Kiln park ? on the Milwaukee river nice place, been there many times. Cedarburg is a nice little town too nice little shops. My Grandmother lived there for 50 years so i spent many a summer there.

Been to Lime Kiln many times. I like the disc golf course there.

I own a shop in downtown Cedarburg right now. Very nice little town.

The whole area is nice. I grew up in Milwaukee & West Allis. It's nice to be out here where it's a little quieter.

GLOCK21GB · Jan 13, 2010

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icepik wrote:

Glock34 wrote:

icepik wrote:

Glock34 wrote:

then scream please stop, please stop , I will defend myself ..then the 911 lady hears... BANG, BANG !!! then you tell her in a very upset, frightened voice that you had no choice, he was coming at you with a weapon (( make sure he has a weapon )) if your gonna use lethal force.

Click to expand...

Bang Bang? You wasted 2 rounds on him? Plus I didn't know chains went bang bang?

Oh wait, that wasn't the point of the story here? :celebrate

Click to expand...

ever go to the Lime Kiln park ? on the Milwaukee river nice place, been there many times. Cedarburg is a nice little town too nice little shops. My Grandmother lived there for 50 years so i spent many a summer there.

Click to expand...

Been to Lime Kiln many times. I like the disc golf course there.

I own a shop in downtown Cedarburg right now. Very nice little town.

The whole area is nice. I grew up in Milwaukee & West Allis. It's nice to be out here where it's a little quieter.

What the name of your shop & what do you sell ? I will have to make a point of swinging in there this summer. I like the park in Grafton , the one with the pavillion on the Milwaukee river, they have the best fireworks show in the state on the 4th of July. I once worked for the fireworks company that puts the show on, Bartolotta Fireworks.

icepik · Jan 13, 2010

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Glock34 wrote:

What the name of your shop & what do you sell ? I will have to make a point of swinging in there this summer. I like the park in Grafton , the one with the pavillion on the Milwaukee river, they have the best fireworks show in the state on the 4th of July. I once worked for the fireworks company that puts the show on, Bartolotta Fireworks.

Right now it's 2 stores in one. Ilea Rose - Handbags & Gifts AND PCTech

The first one is something my gf wanted to start, and the PCTech is my computer services shop.

I'm in the process of trying to sell the Handbag & Gift store and converting the location into a photo studio.

We're located in the Washington Avenue Shoppes...pretty much just across the street from The Chocolate Factory building, north about 4 buildings. We're next to the purple building. The Wash Shoppes is a little inside strip mall, we're in the back.

Shotgun · Jan 13, 2010

imported post

Nutczak wrote:

gollbladder13 wrote:

There may be no duty to retreat, but you can't just shoot somebody for entering your home.

Click to expand...

True, but hopefully that will change when we get a solid castle doctrine in WI.

Besides, the first reaction when threatened SHOULD be to retreat, separate, and avoid. Anything before that could be considered more aggressive than "the least amount of force necessary".

Click to expand...

"The least amount of force necessary"
What exactly would be the least amount of force necessary?
should you first try to stop the threat with a .22LR target-pistol instead of the .357Mag?
Or if you see the intruder has a knife, would you try to counter with a knife instead of a gun?

If someone would be stupid enough to break into my home with the intent to injure or kill any of us, I would come at them with everything I had first and foremost toneutralize that threat by any means possible. I am not going to contemplate what the city attorney might consider excessive force in a situation where the sanctity of my home (castle) has been violated.

Do you honestly think any jury would send you to jail for defending your family against an attacker because you gun was a larger caliber then the attacker had with them?

lets review the current laws on use of force again;

939.48 Self−defense and defense of others. (1) A person is privileged to threaten or intentionally use force against another for the purpose of preventing or terminating what the person reasonably believes to be an unlawful interference with his or her person by such other person. The actor may intentionally use only such force or threat thereof as the actor reasonably believes is necessary to prevent or terminate the interference. The actor may not intentionally use force which is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm unless the actor reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself.

Click to expand...

Nowhere does it state that you cannot use a gun against a person weilding a baseball bat, screwdriver, knife or whatever else the decided to use an offensive weapon.
The law only requires me to believe that my life or health is in danger before ending that intruders life by any means I have available.

You're right, nothing says it has to be a "fair" fight. Hopefully it will be decisively unfair to your advantage.

I would only point out that if, in such a situation, we only had to worry about a "city attorney" life would be pretty good. That would mean you're only charged with a non-criminal city ordinance violation. In the real world it is the district attorney who would decide whether to press criminal charges.

GLOCK21GB · Jan 13, 2010

imported post

icepik wrote:

Glock34 wrote:

What the name of your shop & what do you sell ? I will have to make a point of swinging in there this summer. I like the park in Grafton , the one with the pavillion on the Milwaukee river, they have the best fireworks show in the state on the 4th of July. I once worked for the fireworks company that puts the show on, Bartolotta Fireworks.

Click to expand...

Right now it's 2 stores in one. Ilea Rose - Handbags & Gifts AND PCTech

The first one is something my gf wanted to start, and the PCTech is my computer services shop.

I'm in the process of trying to sell the Handbag & Gift store and converting the location into a photo studio.

We're located in the Washington Avenue Shoppes...pretty much just across the street from The Chocolate Factory building, north about 4 buildings. We're next to the purple building. The Wash Shoppes is a little inside strip mall, we're in the back.

alright I think I pretty much know where you are , thats close to the little winery on the corner right ?

MKEgal · Jan 14, 2010

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SigGSR wrote:

In North Carolina, there is no citizens arrest, but a citizen may detain
a person while the police are called.

I think what confuses most people is the term "arrest".
Instead of thinking of the police reading someone his rights & hauling
him away in handcuffs, replace that with a simpler definition of holding
or stopping.

As to how & when I'd do it? I'd have to be darn sure of the crime, &
the perp, & he'd end up on his belly with hands on head, fingers laced&
ankles crossed, not moving. (Or maybe spread eagle... artistic license.)
Andhe'd stay there nice & quiet & calm until the police came to rescue
him.

"The female of the species is more deadly than the male."
R. Kipling

-

GLOCK21GB · Jan 14, 2010

imported post

MKEgal wrote:

SigGSR wrote:

In North Carolina, there is no citizens arrest, but a citizen may detain
a person while the police are called.

Click to expand...

I think what confuses most people is the term "arrest".
Instead of thinking of the police reading someone his rights & hauling
him away in handcuffs, replace that with a simpler definition of holding
or stopping.

As to how & when I'd do it? I'd have to be darn sure of the crime, &
the perp, & he'd end up on his belly with hands on head, fingers laced&
ankles crossed, not moving. (Or maybe spread eagle... artistic license.)
Andhe'd stay there nice & quiet & calm until the police came to rescue
him.

"The female of the species is more deadly than the male."
R. Kipling

-

Welcome to the WI forum , MKEgal , nice to have you aboard.

icepik · Jun 8, 2010

imported post

Hello,

There is no state statute that addresses a citizens arrest, there is an opinion issued by the AG's office that addresses the when/how for a citizens arrest.

You'll have to read a bit into the memo to get the section about citizens arrest.

I tried to attach the pdf, but it's a hair over the file size, and I cannot reduce the file size any smaller to get it to fit here, so here's the link...

http://www.doj.state.wi.us/ag/opinions/2008_09_03Mohr.pdf

Happy Reading.

Jay

J.Gleason · Jun 8, 2010

imported post

icepik wrote:

Hello,

There is no state statute that addresses a citizens arrest, there is an opinion issued by the AG's office that addresses the when/how for a citizens arrest.

You'll have to read a bit into the memo to get the section about citizens arrest.

I tried to attach the pdf, but it's a hair over the file size, and I cannot reduce the file size any smaller to get it to fit here, so here's the link...

http://www.doj.state.wi.us/ag/opinions/2008_09_03Mohr.pdf

Happy Reading.

Jay

This is as it applies to private security guards.

icepik · Jun 8, 2010

imported post

Keep reading. While it is initially about second guards, it addresses a citizens arrest, and a second guard is a citizen just as you and I. The memo addresses others as well.

Doug Huffman · Jun 8, 2010

imported post

"Thus, a private security guard has only the authority of a private person to make a citizen's arrest."
[ ...]
"... in Wisconsin a citizen's arrest is governed by the common law."

There follows three citations of case law and, "... the common law sets the requirements for a valid citizen's arrest.

The five pages of legal argument concludes with, "While the above cases are not binding on a Wisconsin court, they illustrate that with regard to misdemeanors, your second question does not have definitive answers ..." Yadda yadda yadda.

You can find anything you want in the internetz restaurant -- 'ceptin' the truth. IOW, believe nothing that you read or hear without verifying it yourself unless it fits your preexisting world view.

McX · Jun 8, 2010

imported post

hmmm, requires a policy i guess; so it shall be- for my protection only, and those within my defensive area. would have to be a real crime, not minor, i would draw and 'detain for questioning by the civil authorities' but i would not touch them, nor rumble with them, and if they figured it out, and began to walk away, i would reholster, and whine about the one that got away. give chase- doubt it. plus while making the decision to draw the usual questions would come into play; what went down? is it valid enough to warrant action? is he armed, and or advancing on me or his target, any cops handy? i wouldn't enter a school zone- and on that one i would blame my total inaction on the lawmakers.

Citizen's Arrest

icepik

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Nutczak

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GLOCK21GB

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icepik

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GLOCK21GB

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icepik

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Shotgun

Wisconsin Carry, Inc.

GLOCK21GB

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MKEgal

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GLOCK21GB

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icepik

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J.Gleason

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icepik

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Doug Huffman

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McX

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