Open Carry Not a Good Idea

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Let me first say it is not my intent to offend, or upset anyone or any group. I believe in the 2[suP]nd[/suP] amendment, and the right to carry (Concealed or Open.)I currently do not carry a weapon (I do have 2 pistols and my CC permit.) I will be purchasing a 3[suP]rd[/suP] pistol for CC and still deciding on which (probably XDM)



After reading the RCW’s, Several Blogs, YouTube videos, and postings here, I have to question whether open carry is even a smart thing to do. Just because it’s your right doesn’t mean it’s a good idea.

My thoughts:

1. In my opinion the constitution is dead. If a cop wants to Search you, they will search you. If they want to enter your property, they will. Hence, failure to comply constitutes probable cause.

-Watch the videos of the Katrina disarm, along with many others. Or any episode of “the Police women of Broward County.”

1. While open carry is technically legal. It’s not. The cops know the laws, they have backup, lawyers, and they sure as hell don’t want you to open carry. If you even peep the wrong way they will arrest you in an open carry encounter.
2. Open carry makes people VERY uncomfortable.
   
3. “Arguing with the Police is inherently stupid and you will ultimately loose.”
   
4. An open carry confrontation immediately places you in a combative situation with the Police. All you have to do is accidently drop your hand by your gun and that would be viewed as an attempt on the officer’s life.
   
5. If you are black or Mexican? They will shoot first then question you.
   
6. It’s open season for the police to kill people. They will shoot a guy 5 times with screwdriver in his hands all while having backup and proven nonlethal alternatives. The Police are trigger happy and will use any excuse to shoot you. Even if they are found dead wrong, the consequences are minor in comparison to you shooting someone. Don’t believe me? Look how many police shootings there were in 2009.
   
7. Let’s say the cop is wrong about open carry.If they were to pull a gun on you and place you in a situation that you fear for you life, you need to hope they wont kill you. If you shoot and kill them in self defense, you are a cop killer plain and simple. Your only choice is surrender.
   
8. Your gun can be taken from you. -Snatched from holster.
   
9. The possibility of a negligent discharge.
   
10. There is no such thing as a “lead pipe case” The even if it’s black and white, anyone who has been involved in litigation can tell you the law can be open to interpretation. Not to mention there are so many god damn laws you are probably breaking 1 of them.
    
11. Even if you are right, even if the law does agree with you. Would you still want to go through all the hassles and court battles that others have?

When you open carry a gun like it or not the court of public opinion immediately places you into one of three categories.

1. The Aussie Duster / Doc Martin Shoe wearer –See Columbine Shooter
2. The fat red neck wearing the “When you come for my guns… bring lots of body bags” shirt. (BTW- I find this to be one of the most moronic shirts I have ever seen. You and your 10 guns won’t fare well against a SWAT team, sorry.)
3. Street thug.

Let’s be honest. The Gun movement has had some less than ideal ambassadors in the past. So, is the cause really worth the potential loss of life? Why have the liabilities? Wouldn’t conceal carry just be a smarter way to proceed?

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Man I sure don't want to live in the state this guy lives in. I'll stay in Virginia, thank you.

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I live in AZ and OC everyday. It's not dead in AZ. In fact I've walked by, or been around several LEOs while open carrying, and they have never even batted an eye.

The idea is to make your state, its residents, police, etc comfortable with open carry. Than maybe your state, whatever state that maybe, can enjoy the pleasures of freedom.

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I dunno where this guy lives... but it's not here (for sure).



"Your gun can be taken from you. -Snatched from holster." It's never happened yet in a legitimate situationthat's been documented

"When you open carry a gun like it or not the court of public opinion immediately places you into one of three categories.

1. The Aussie Duster / Doc Martin Shoe wearer –See Columbine Shooter
2. The fat red neck wearing the “When you come for my guns… bring lots of body bags” shirt. (BTW- I find this to be one of the most moronic shirts I have ever seen. You and your 10 guns won’t fare well against a SWAT team, sorry.)
3. Street thug."

This guy must live in a city... with typically 'citified' stereotypes. Whatinhell are Doc Martin shoes? 'Fat 'redneck'... LOL! Asopposed to'Fat mouth breathers'? You gotta get out of wherever it is that you are and 'mingle'.


"Wouldn’t conceal carry just be a smarter way to proceed?" Come down to the desert 'n tell me where you intend to 'conceal' in any sort of practicality when the temps are runnin' past the 100F mark daily. (124F at times)

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Yeah,, I'm glad I don't live where he lives also. I open carry every day, mostly summer but that's because of the climate, and never have had any trouble from anyone, not even when I had to deal with the police.

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There are so many misconceptions and incorrect statements contained in the OP that my brain sputters.

But ya know what? Opencarry.org must be exerting a strong and effective influence in order to have so many posters show up condemning the practice of openly carrying a firearm where legal.

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I call TROLL ALERT on this one.

The comments are based on the conjecture of someone trying to discredit this board or is truly ignorant of the issues at hand and makes us all out to be supporters of some kind of anti-government, anti-police, mentality while trying to maintain that they know something about guns and look credible (oh, wupty-do, if you have to preface your negative post with a "I support the 2nd amendment tooand I like guns, I'm getting probably an XDM next" then you simply are a troll....

No, probably a Troll crossbread with a troglodyte. Stop trying to undermine our noble, just, and necessary cause.





flienlow wrote:

Let me first say it is not my intent to offend, or upset anyone or any group. I believe in the 2[suP]nd[/suP] amendment, and the right to carry (Concealed or Open.)I currently do not carry a weapon (I do have 2 pistols and my CC permit.) I will be purchasing a 3[suP]rd[/suP] pistol for CC and still deciding on which (probably XDM)



After reading the RCW’s, Several Blogs, YouTube videos, and postings here, I have to question whether open carry is even a smart thing to do. Just because it’s your right doesn’t mean it’s a good idea.

My thoughts:

1. In my opinion the constitution is dead. If a cop wants to Search you, they will search you. If they want to enter your property, they will. Hence, failure to comply constitutes probable cause.

-Watch the videos of the Katrina disarm, along with many others. Or any episode of “the Police women of Broward County.”

1. While open carry is technically legal. It’s not. The cops know the laws, they have backup, lawyers, and they sure as hell don’t want you to open carry. If you even peep the wrong way they will arrest you in an open carry encounter.
2. Open carry makes people VERY uncomfortable.
   
3. “Arguing with the Police is inherently stupid and you will ultimately loose.”
   
4. An open carry confrontation immediately places you in a combative situation with the Police. All you have to do is accidently drop your hand by your gun and that would be viewed as an attempt on the officer’s life.
   
5. If you are black or Mexican? They will shoot first then question you.
   
6. It’s open season for the police to kill people. They will shoot a guy 5 times with screwdriver in his hands all while having backup and proven nonlethal alternatives. The Police are trigger happy and will use any excuse to shoot you. Even if they are found dead wrong, the consequences are minor in comparison to you shooting someone. Don’t believe me? Look how many police shootings there were in 2009.
   
7. Let’s say the cop is wrong about open carry.If they were to pull a gun on you and place you in a situation that you fear for you life, you need to hope they wont kill you. If you shoot and kill them in self defense, you are a cop killer plain and simple. Your only choice is surrender.
   
8. Your gun can be taken from you. -Snatched from holster.
   
9. The possibility of a negligent discharge.
   
10. There is no such thing as a “lead pipe case” The even if it’s black and white, anyone who has been involved in litigation can tell you the law can be open to interpretation. Not to mention there are so many god damn laws you are probably breaking 1 of them.
    
11. Even if you are right, even if the law does agree with you. Would you still want to go through all the hassles and court battles that others have?

When you open carry a gun like it or not the court of public opinion immediately places you into one of three categories.

1. The Aussie Duster / Doc Martin Shoe wearer –See Columbine Shooter
2. The fat red neck wearing the “When you come for my guns… bring lots of body bags” shirt. (BTW- I find this to be one of the most moronic shirts I have ever seen. You and your 10 guns won’t fare well against a SWAT team, sorry.)
3. Street thug.

Let’s be honest. The Gun movement has had some less than ideal ambassadors in the past. So, is the cause really worth the potential loss of life? Why have the liabilities? Wouldn’t conceal carry just be a smarter way to proceed?

Click to expand...

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Sonora Rebel wrote:

I dunno where this guy lives... but it's not here (for sure).



"Your gun can be taken from you. -Snatched from holster." It's never happened yet in a legitimate situationthat's been documented

"When you open carry a gun like it or not the court of public opinion immediately places you into one of three categories.

1. The Aussie Duster / Doc Martin Shoe wearer –See Columbine Shooter
2. The fat red neck wearing the “When you come for my guns… bring lots of body bags” shirt. (BTW- I find this to be one of the most moronic shirts I have ever seen. You and your 10 guns won’t fare well against a SWAT team, sorry.)
3. Street thug."

This guy must live in a city... with typically 'citified' stereotypes. Whatinhell are Doc Martin shoes? 'Fat 'redneck'... LOL! Asopposed to'Fat mouth breathers'? You gotta get out of wherever it is that you are and 'mingle'.


"Wouldn’t conceal carry just be a smarter way to proceed?" Come down to the desert 'n tell me where you intend to 'conceal' in any sort of practicality when the temps are runnin' past the 100F mark daily. (124F at times)

Click to expand...

http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum6/35955.html

only documented case I've seen and it failed.

Everything you have questioned has been brought up before flienlow. Do your own research by searching the forums.

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Bikenut-"so many posters show up condemning the practice of openly carrying a firearm where legal."- Where was the condemnation?

tekshogun-Troll? I'm not sure of the reference. Be assured I do not live under a bridge."Stop trying to undermine our noble, just, and necessary cause." - Nowhere have I tried to undermineYOUR/OUR/THE cause. Infact, I would wager a bet our positon is not much different on this subject.

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If you are concerned that you will negligently discharge a properly holstered weapon, I recommend not carrying open or concealed.

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1. Arrest does no mean convict, please see the recent "incident" with one of our Jacksonville posters, ComradeV.


2. Open carry makes SOME people VERY uncomfortable. Others stop and talk with you about it.


3. You don't have to argue with the police.

4. Please see the recent detainment of a GA Lawyer who was lawfully carrying a CONCEALED weapon and the subsequent seizure of his weapon.

5. Please see recent video by jp49911 - this was not his only LEO encounter, by the way.

6. Please cite reference to police shootings going up. Please cite reference to increased police shootings of open carry practitioners.

7. If you are in legitimate fear for your life, you have a right to defend yourself. If you are involved in a good shooting, it is not going to matter who the BG was.

8. Please see recent post about mall security guard.

9. Please see my other post in this thread.

10. Education is the key to this problem.

11. Please cite cases of lengthy court battles involving cases of simply carrying openly.

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NY2AZ wrote:

I live in AZ and OC everyday. It's not dead in AZ. In fact I've walked by, or been around several LEOs while open carrying, and they have never even batted an eye.

The idea is to make your state, its residents, police, etc comfortable with open carry. Than maybe your state, whatever state that maybe, can enjoy the pleasures of freedom.

Click to expand...

Did I happen to see you on the news by chance? Maybe at an Obama appearance in your state with an AR15 over your shoulder and a holstered pistol? Your avatar looks familiar.

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ColMustard wrote:

NY2AZ wrote:

I live in AZ and OC everyday. It's not dead in AZ. In fact I've walked by, or been around several LEOs while open carrying, and they have never even batted an eye.

The idea is to make your state, its residents, police, etc comfortable with open carry. Than maybe your state, whatever state that maybe, can enjoy the pleasures of freedom.

Click to expand...

Did I happen to see you on the news by chance? Maybe at an Obama appearance in your state with an AR15 over your shoulder and a holstered pistol? Your avatar looks familiar.

Click to expand...

Actually... we have more than one black guy in Arizona...

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tekshogun wrote:

I call TROLL ALERT on this one.

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You call 'troll' on many posts here. The OP spent some time on his post and I'll have to agree with many of his conclusions. While we may have the Right(s), in every day life your Rights don't mean anything to most cops. They'll more times than not arrest you and let the courts sort it out than to listen to a well reasoned position of an open carrier.

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I, personally, have never seen a post with that many errors. Wait.....maybe something from the Brady bunch. Hmmmmmmmmm.:shock:

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Sonora Rebel wrote:

Actually... we have more than one black guy in Arizona...

Click to expand...

While that might be the case, they all don't look like this black man do they? I happen to think this is the same guy that I saw interviewed on national television. I may be wrong but I'd appreciate you allowing those to whom I address a question answer it and not you. Unless of course you know the man in the news reports and know for a fact that the two aren't the same man.

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I'm not the person you addressed, but I'm pretty sure that's Carlton from Fresh Prince of Bel Air.

ColMustard wrote:

Sonora Rebel wrote:

Actually... we have more than one black guy in Arizona...

Click to expand...

While that might be the case, they all don't look like this black man do they? I happen to think this is the same guy that I saw interviewed on national television. I may be wrong but I'd appreciate you allowing those to whom I address a question answer it and not you. Unless of course you know the man in the news reports and know for a fact that the two aren't the same man.

Click to expand...

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ColMustard wrote:

tekshogun wrote:

I call TROLL ALERT on this one.

Click to expand...

You call 'troll' on many posts here. The OP spent some time on his post and I'll have to agree with many of his conclusions. While we may have the Right(s), in every day life your Rights don't mean anything to most cops. They'll more times than not arrest you and let the courts sort it out than to listen to a well reasoned position of an open carrier.

Click to expand...

That's why when a bad encounter with LEO's does happen we call them on it. One should never be cavalier about their fundamental rights. And LEO's who discharge their allowed duties in an illegal fashion not only should, but must be held accountable to set an example to the rest of the LEO's. They need to know it is us whom they serve, not the other way around.

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flienlow wrote:

I believe in the 2[suP]nd[/suP] amendment, and the right to carry

Click to expand...

No you don't!

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ColMustard wrote:

tekshogun wrote:

I call TROLL ALERT on this one.

Click to expand...

You call 'troll' on many posts here. The OP spent some time on his post and I'll have to agree with many of his conclusions. While we may have the Right(s), in every day life your Rights don't mean anything to most cops. They'll more times than not arrest you and let the courts sort it out than to listen to a well reasoned position of an open carrier.

Click to expand...

thank you.

We are a product of they way we were raised, and our life experiences. I can only speak for the person that walks in my shoes. I never once claimed to be right here, or have all the answers.

Where I come from we have had 7 cops shot, and 6 of them killed Since november. We have also had 9 citizen killed by police involved shootingssince September. Cops have a very hard job, and deal with the lowest common denominators on daily basis. They see gun and instantly shoot. Its a reflex action. They are going to go home that night. In between the sight of a gun, and the policeofficer plulling the triggeris the mico-second relm of gun rights and constituion. There is no time, I just finished reading a story of a homeowner defending his family against an intruder. He had the intruder at gun point and the pre-warned police officer drilled 5 rounds in him. You dont even need to be holding a gun to be fatally shot by the police.

The Aforementionedleads me to this post and the patriots who call me a troll. (which is fine by me, I understand this is passionate conversation.) Point being does it really make sense to "push" the limit, or could you just quietly go on your way minding your own business knowing that you refuse to be a victim with that pistol in your pocket?