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Open Carry Not a Good Idea

Hawkflyer

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Joined
Feb 21, 2007
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3,309
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Prince William County, Virginia, USA
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flienlow wrote:
Carnivore wrote:
I'm wondering why flienlow hasn't yet at least made up a location from which he would like the folks to think he's posting from.. I'm not sure he's even in this country..

It would seem to me when discussing information on a blog where people write “Ask the moderator to remove your postings...” for pending civil cases that anonymity best be held in high regard. My person view is that this is a very sensitive subject matter and one could be the recipient of a Royal Arse Rogering (legally speaking) for posting ones opinions here. –That said, everything is traceable on the internet.

However,I will say that I am from Washington State.
While I understand an abundance of caution, in this case in for a penny in for a pound. Once you registered adding your state of origin will not provide any information that cannot be found by tracing your IP address. But since most of us here do not run Trap and Trace equipment it helps in the discussion without giving up anything that a dedicated person would not already know.

Thank you for the additional info, now we can use the legal data for Washington state as the context for answering your questions.
 

Mike

Site Co-Founder
Joined
May 13, 2006
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Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
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flienlow wrote:
Point being does it really make sense to "push" the limit, or could you just quietly go on your way minding your own business knowing that you refuse to be a victim with that pistol in your pocket?

Open carry is not pushing the limit - it is well within the limit - concealed carry is constitutionally disfavored, see Heller.

By bringing gun carry out of the closet we are, and will continue to help normalize gun ownership in the USA.

Having said that, the open carry movement is about, and is best furthered by,normal holstered carry in everyday life, preferably by people who others can identify with - and not abnormal scary carry designed to get a CNN camera turned on you or to entrap the police into thinking you are breaking the law somehow when technically you are not.
 

Task Force 16

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Jul 20, 2008
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Lobelville, Tennessee, USA
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flienlow wrote:
In my state there is "NO DUTY TO RETREAT" One question that I have is, do you need to be continually punched in the face before you can defend (shoot an attacker?)
First of all, If you are OCing, anyone that wants to walk up and punch you in the face is crazy.

The "No Duty to Retreat" law doesn't mean you can't do so when attacked. It merely means that you don't have to. Some states still require that you retreat if you have an escape route. Example: If your at home and intruders breakdown your front door (home envasion) if you have a back door and can get to it, you must attempt to do so. You would not be allowed to stand your ground and defend against the intruders.

Now, if some one is attacking you with bare fists, you could present your firearm, which may make the BG back off. Use of firearms to stop criminal attacks don't always have to include pulling the trigger. Most don't.
 

flienlow

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 7, 2010
Messages
33
Location
, Washington, USA
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Mike- I Agree with what you said.

Taskforce- "Now, if some one is attacking you with bare fists, you could present your firearm, which may make the BG back off. "-----This is Branishing, WA does not have a "Branishing" law that I know of, but verbage that is close. " I read a post here where I guy saw an attack comming and was in his car, attacker came up to car and tried to open. I believe the attacker was looking down the business end of a p89. Attacker ran, got cops and armed vitcim had drama.

Going back to Assult, Where does it justify you to pull your gun? Are you required to stand there and take it, and call 911 after? I am confused on this subject as I have seen way more contradiction to this than I would care to. - This is off topic though.

OC-My feeling is that people are very nervous where I am from when they see a gun. I grew up with a father that packed though He always concealed. Most folks were not raised as I was with the smell of Hoppies in the kitchen and forcing cone gauges in the "gun room." Here if they see a gun they will spill starbucks and hiball for a phone to call the police.(this is my perception as I have never carried.) It is that perception that make me question IF OC is good idea.

Do I think we all should (or be able to ) OC....F yes! I am beginning to think firearm ownership is thepatriotic duty of all americans.

Do I think OC is right for me? ...That is why I am here learning, engaging, and debating.
 

ak56

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Aug 10, 2009
Messages
746
Location
Carnation, Washington, USA
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flienlow,

Welcome to OCDO. Spend some time in the Washington State part of this forum. You'll discover that there is a very active OC crowd around, and OC is more accepted around here than most people think.
 

flienlow

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 7, 2010
Messages
33
Location
, Washington, USA
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ak56 wrote:
flienlow,

Welcome to OCDO. Spend some time in the Washington State part of this forum. You'll discover that there is a very active OC crowd around, and OC is more accepted around here than most people think.


Thanks, and Really? Im shocked.
 

Task Force 16

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Joined
Jul 20, 2008
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Lobelville, Tennessee, USA
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flienlow wrote:
Mike- I Agree with what you said.

Taskforce- "Now, if some one is attacking you with bare fists, you could present your firearm, which may make the BG back off. "-----This is Branishing, WA does not have a "Branishing" law that I know of, but verbage that is close. " I read a post here where I guy saw an attack comming and was in his car, attacker came up to car and tried to open. I believe the attacker was looking down the business end of a p89. Attacker ran, got cops and armed vitcim had drama.

Going back to Assult, Where does it justify you to pull your gun? Are you required to stand there and take it, and call 911 after? I am confused on this subject as I have seen way more contradiction to this than I would care to. - This is off topic though.

OC-My feeling is that people are very nervous where I am from when they see a gun. I grew up with a father that packed though He always concealed. Most folks were not raised as I was with the smell of Hoppies in the kitchen and forcing cone gauges in the "gun room." Here if they see a gun they will spill starbucks and hiball for a phone to call the police.(this is my perception as I have never carried.) It is that perception that make me question IF OC is good idea.

Do I think we all should (or be able to ) OC....F yes! I am beginning to think firearm ownership is thepatriotic duty of all americans.

Do I think OC is right for me? ...That is why I am here learning, engaging, and debating.

I do not know what the laws are in your state nor the climate of acceptability to OC by the public there. I've always heard that the West Coast states were more liberal than the midwest and south. This may explain teh nervousness of the population there.

Here in my state I OC everywhere I am allowed by law. I've also OC'd a bit in Ky.I have not noticed any nervous concern from the public. A permit is required to CC and OC. I don't think all that many folks even notice that I have a handgun on my hip. Those that I catch looking at it usually just glance down at it and go about their business. Ocassionally, I'm asked what make or cal of firearm I'm carrying, and sometimes I get legal queries, which I'm happy to answer.

The Sheriff's deputies in my county don't seem to have problem with OC. They know that we have get handgun safety instruction and have a background check done to get our permits. So when they see someone OC, they figure their legally doing so. I've talked to a few of them and they simply don't have a problem with OC.

You admit that you've never carried, so your notions about OC are based on perception. I suspect that if you hang around and read these forums long enough, that perception will change. You might even start carrying (maybe OCing) yourself.
 

ak56

Campaign Veteran
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Aug 10, 2009
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746
Location
Carnation, Washington, USA
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flienlow wrote:
ak56 wrote:
flienlow,

Welcome to OCDO. Spend some time in the Washington State part of this forum. You'll discover that there is a very active OC crowd around, and OC is more accepted around here than most people think.


Thanks, and Really? Im shocked.

Check out this thread: January Everett Meet

Plans are in place for a meet on the 21st (I can't make it). The first post has been updated with details. Some of the later posts mention the number of people that have been at some of the previous meets.
 

zhowe

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Jan 10, 2010
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Not only do I disagree with all your 'Why to not OC', I would also have to disagree with your XDm choice to CC. The XDm is awful big to hide :)
 

Sonora Rebel

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Aug 6, 2008
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Gone
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Task Force 16 wrote:
flienlow wrote:
In my state there is "NO DUTY TO RETREAT" One question that I have is, do you need to be continually punched in the face before you can defend (shoot an attacker?)
First of all, If you are OCing, anyone that wants to walk up and punch you in the face is crazy.

The "No Duty to Retreat" law doesn't mean you can't do so when attacked. It merely means that you don't have to. Some states still require that you retreat if you have an escape route. Example: If your at home and intruders breakdown your front door (home envasion) if you have a back door and can get to it, you must attempt to do so. You would not be allowed to stand your ground and defend against the intruders.

Now, if some one is attacking you with bare fists, you could present your firearm, which may make the BG back off. Use of firearms to stop criminal attacks don't always have to include pulling the trigger. Most don't.
We have a different dynamic goin' on with a bare-handed attack while armed. We must protect ourselves and defend the 'gun'. Losing control of the gun must be viewed as a lethal situation to ourselves and others. We cannot allow that. Disparity of force being what it may be... and not knowing intent... You have every right to shoot the sumbitch or use of other deadly force to thwart/stop the attack. Now... if they run off... don't follow or shoot at 'em. You've done what you could to defend yourself. Let the lawdogs handle the rest of it.
 

Xader

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Jul 30, 2009
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Location
, Oregon, USA
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flienlow wrote:
  1. The Aussie Duster / Doc Martin Shoe wearer –See Columbine Shooter
What's wrong with Doc Martens? They make some tough work boots. I love mine...:lol:
 

compmanio365

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Apr 21, 2007
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Pierce County, Washington, USA
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flienlow, there is a very active group of OCers both on the west and eastern side of the state here in Washington. I personally OC about 75% of the time and have had only 2 encounters with police while doing so, both back around the time I first started carrying, and both were as smooth as they could have been. Both times I simply talked to the LEOs in question, quoted the RCWs pertaining lawful open carry to them, they conferred with a supervisor because they honestly didn't know, and both times I/we were bid good day and allowed on our way.

I've been OCing now for 3 years and that's all I have to show for all my travels while OCing. The rest of the time has been fairly uneventful and I have even gotten the occasional positive comment. I know of several times in this area where my OCing has warded off potential confrontation, whereas CC would have forced me into a position of having to draw to defend myself. The bottom line is, carry how you will, but don't disparage OC just because you don't understand it. And you are more than welcome to join us in one of our monthly meetups if you are on the western side of the state; carrying is NOT a requirement, simply come and have good food, company and conversation with like-minded individuals. As others have said, also check out the Washington forum for more info pertaining to Washington itself and to know when events are occurring that you may be able to join us for.
 

stainless1911

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If an armed criminal attacks an unarmed person anything can happen, literaly. If that same armed criminal wants to attack someone who is actively CC, then the criminal is probably going to be shot. If the same criminal observes someone actively OCing, then the criminal goes somewhere else. There is no violence, no police, nothing that comes with either being an unarmed victim of crime, or an armed victim of the law.

We OC to educate and make people more comfortable with rights,guns, and gun owners.

I beleive that we as gun owners are losing our A2 partly because of CC. The politicians have found a way to appease gun owners while falsely claiming to uphold our rights (permits = infringements) and at the same time putting those scary guns out of their sight. People never get to see what responsible gun ownership looks like, they only see what the government media, movies and music show them. They dont get to see us with a gun enjoying a burger, pushing a shopping cart, or flying a kite with the kids.

We OC because we have the advantage over the criminals. Most people dont even notice us OC, it is very unlikely that the criminal would as they will be looking for LEOs not us, they will be full of adrenaline, andthey are likely either high, or are jonesing. There has never (to my knowledge) been a single time an OCer was targeted by a criminal. Even if we were, thats good, because the BG is then no longer focused on his plan, or unarmed people, he has to improvise. Its unlikely the BG is as well trained, and it allows the sheeple time and opportunity to hide, escape, and shelter their kids while the BG is being dealt with by us. Meanwhile, someone will likely be calling for police backup. The criminal is highly unlikely to confront someone with the confidence to OC.

We can also out draw concealed carriers.

"A right unexercised, is a right lost" ...I've heard that somewhere...

We OC to provide a deterrent to crime. If a criminal knows that there are people who frequent an area who are armed, that criminal will go somewhere else. I have heard it referred to as a "halo effect", i.e. a portable crime free zone.

Some LEOs realise this, and support OC as it makes their job easier.

OC is an advantage to the police as well. They can observe a MWAG call at a distance for their own safety and realise its an OCer not a criminal, thus avoiding a bad situation. A wise officer would realise that no real criminal would OC, because he/she doesnt want the attension of the police, and wouldnt want someone to call the police before they commited the crime. The BG wants to hide naturally, and wants the element of suprise.


We can carry a bigger gun, larger calibers and extra mags.

We can easily carry in hot weather.

With a CPL, we can carry in weapon free zones.
 

Dreamer

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Sep 23, 2009
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Grennsboro NC
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Xader wrote:
What's wrong with Doc Martens? They make some tough work boots. I love mine...:lol:
What is wrong with Doc's? They are made in Great Britain, that's what...

Don't get me wrong--I have owned Docs, and they are VERY well-made, comfortable and long-wearing boots. But I won't be buying another pair, because I won't send my money to England because the English government hates Liberty.

Currently my main "work boots" are a pair of Corcoran Jump Boots. They took about a month of constant wear to break in, but they are FANTASTIC boots, and are made right here in the USA...
 

caverat

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Dec 16, 2009
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,SE Idaho, USA
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I OC every day every place I go. Have had to answer some stupid questions. But just smiled and explained why I carry. I see LEO about every day haven't been gunned down yet :shock: I also have family that is LEO They have never shot anyone for OCing or even roughed them up taken there gun unjustly or other.
They think I'm nuts to OC all the time just because they think it's a pain to always carry
 

MamaLiberty

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Nov 8, 2006
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Newcastle, Wyoming, USA
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Welcome,flienlow. As you can see, you can't judge only from your own experience, or just from what you read in the papers. I do hope you will read extensively here at opencarry, and learn about the experiences of others all over the country. It may well help you to prepare much better to join the ranks of ordinary armed people.

I'm a 63 year old woman. I carry an XD .45 openly, all day and everywhere I go. I am a certified firearms and self defense instructor. I am also the survivor of a violent attack, and had to shoot my attacker many years ago in another state. Twice in the last 4 years, the simple presence of my gun has averted a problem. Somehow, this 5 ft. old lady doesn't look like such an easy victim with a .45 on her hip.

When folks ask me why I carry a gun, I tell them that I am the ONLY one who is responsible for my own life and safety. There are many other reasons, but that has to be the first and most important one.
 

NightOwl

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Jul 26, 2008
Messages
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, California, USA
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I lived in Idaho for the last five or six years. The last couple of them (after finding out about OC) I OC'd everywhere I went, with the exception of a few trips to the post office. In general, no problem at all. Couple of times I was asked about it, one minor delay (of about 5 minutes) getting into the county fair, and a silly encounter with a fireman outside of my apartment. However, that's including OC to grocery stores, movie theaters, gas stations, restaraunts, fabric store, shopping malls, etc.It's really not as terrifying to most people as the media would have you believe.

Unfortunately, I live in CA now, where the laws are difficult at best. I look forward to leaving this armpit of a state, but in the meantime, c'mon 2A incorporation! Till then, well...idk. I have a real problem with some of the hoops that ya need to jump through in this state. Can't wait till I can live somewhere with some freedom again.

Oh, and for what it's worth, I'm a fairly large, sorta scruffy looking fellow, yet in spite of my possibly intimidating to some appearance, still nobody went screaming for the hills.
 

stainless1911

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I dont really care if someone freaks out.

I am not responsible for the emotions of another person.

I am not about to put someone elses irrational and unfounded fears ahead of my safety and security.

My dictionary has this listed as a mental illness. If someone is afraid because of OC, they should seek help.

par⋅a⋅noi⋅a



–noun



1.
Psychiatry. a mental disorder characterized by systematized delusions and the projection of personal conflicts, which are ascribed to the supposed hostility of others, sometimes progressing to disturbances of consciousness and aggressive acts believed to be performed in self-defense or as a mission.



2.
baseless or excessive suspicion of the motives of others.
 
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