imported post
Today I was OC while dropping off my son at a gymnastics meet and had the coach ask me to put my gun in the car. Apparently another parent had complained to him. We spoke very briefly and then I left. When I picked him up 2 hours later, I left the following letter with the coach. I know it's long, but hoped forum members might offer suggestions on how I could have improved things (or perhaps thought parts might be useful as a template for others in similar situations):
"I'm sorry that someone put you in the middle of a situation that left you feeling uncomfortable. It seemed that you were also not at ease talking with me (although it very well could have just been everything else going on that needed your attention). I decided to write this up so you could read it at your leisure and hopefully be more comfortable with the situation.
My first suggestion to you is that in the future you need not feel obligated to personally deal with this at all. I don't know who complained to you, but in your position my response would have been: "NDG current policy is to follow state law which allows for open carry of a firearm." If needed, you could also tell them: "I know Bryan and if you have further concerns I'd suggest you speak with him directly. He's a nice guy and I'm sure he would be happy to talk with you." This response completely removes you from the situation (as it should) and allows the person complaining to either take their fears to me (ideally), or optionally to the owner of NDG.
Assuming the person who lodged the complaint was thinking rationally, the only logical conclusion is that they thought I was in violation of some NDG policy (If they though I was in violation of some law, the only appropriate thing for them to do would be to call the police). You made it clear to me that no such policy exists, so it should have been an easy thing to respond to this person. As an example, suppose I come up and told you that I was offended by someone's t-shirt. Presumably you would not feel compelled to go and ask that person to change his shirt. Instead, you would tell me to take care of it myself (and likely resent, with good cause, my attempt to avoid confrontation by placing the burden on you).
Private property law allows any business owner to set policies for their establishment and ask people to leave for essentially any reason (excepting those things protected against discrimination such as age, sex, race, etc.) Almost all businesses have wisely chosen not to discriminate against gun owners and instead just follow Utah law. This absolves them of the potential liabilities, and negative public relations problems associated with choosing to discriminate. Should NDG choose to adopt such an anti-gun stance, they would be the exception not the rule. I openly carry to my children's school, my bank, shopping, restaurants, airport to pickup people, etc.
To address a few other points. You asked me why I carried a gun (and if I felt unsafe at NDG). You also made it a point to say that "there are children here" (it was unclear to me if this was your own concern, or you were simply repeating the stated concern of the person who complained).
In response to your explicitly stated questions (and those implied), first: I carry a gun for defense; to protect myself and those around me. You will notice that this is precisely the same reason that police officers carry a weapon (which is why I asked you if you would be uncomfortable with an officer carrying a weapon at NDG).
Second, your question about if I felt unsafe at NDG implied that it would only be reasonable to carry a gun if I expected to be assaulted. My personal life experience and training has led me to conclude that we cannot predict when trouble will find us. I stopped trying to guess if I might need a weapon each day long ago and simply chose to make it part of my daily wardrobe. People minding their own business and quietly shopping at Trolley square did not wake up thinking that "someone might try and shoot me today". On a more personal level, I have had people close to me violently attacked without provocation in places that they had assumed to be "safe". In short, I don't choose when to carry my gun any more than I choose when to wear my seat belt based on how likely I think it is that I might get into an accident while driving that particular time. Interestingly, most law enforcement and security personnel are required to carry at all times instead of picking and choosing for the same reasons.
Finally, I'd like to strongly contest the idea that children being present is a valid reason for me not to carry a weapon. The implication here is that I am in some way endangering children. I resent this, and assert that the exact opposite is true (that they are more safe not less). This thought shows an ignorance of guns at least, and potentially an irrational fear of guns. Safety is of the utmost concern to me. To that end, I carry a well maintained modern gun with many safety features. I carry it in a retentive holster at all times to ensure no chance of accidental discharge. Furthermore, in the extremely unlikely event that I would need to draw the weapon in defense of myself or another, I have undergone extensive training at great time and expense to ensure that I can do so with proficiency. Assuming they were willing to follow similar safety procedures, I would be very appreciative if all adults around my children (such as their teachers) would also carry a gun. I have already entrusted these people with the safety of my children. They certainly don't need a gun to harm my children if they chose to, and a gun might enable them to effectively defend them if necessary. Some of the terrible school shootings in recent years could have been stopped far more quickly if each teacher had a gun...
The Constitutional "right to bear arms" provides the means to protect myself and those I care for. Our collective safety is more important than someone's "right to feel at ease". I respect both you and your feelings. After you have had a chance to think over these things, I'd like to talk with you in person and address any further concerns you might have."
PS. This is Leeland, but I can't get the password on my proper account to reset for some reason. email never arrives...
Today I was OC while dropping off my son at a gymnastics meet and had the coach ask me to put my gun in the car. Apparently another parent had complained to him. We spoke very briefly and then I left. When I picked him up 2 hours later, I left the following letter with the coach. I know it's long, but hoped forum members might offer suggestions on how I could have improved things (or perhaps thought parts might be useful as a template for others in similar situations):
"I'm sorry that someone put you in the middle of a situation that left you feeling uncomfortable. It seemed that you were also not at ease talking with me (although it very well could have just been everything else going on that needed your attention). I decided to write this up so you could read it at your leisure and hopefully be more comfortable with the situation.
My first suggestion to you is that in the future you need not feel obligated to personally deal with this at all. I don't know who complained to you, but in your position my response would have been: "NDG current policy is to follow state law which allows for open carry of a firearm." If needed, you could also tell them: "I know Bryan and if you have further concerns I'd suggest you speak with him directly. He's a nice guy and I'm sure he would be happy to talk with you." This response completely removes you from the situation (as it should) and allows the person complaining to either take their fears to me (ideally), or optionally to the owner of NDG.
Assuming the person who lodged the complaint was thinking rationally, the only logical conclusion is that they thought I was in violation of some NDG policy (If they though I was in violation of some law, the only appropriate thing for them to do would be to call the police). You made it clear to me that no such policy exists, so it should have been an easy thing to respond to this person. As an example, suppose I come up and told you that I was offended by someone's t-shirt. Presumably you would not feel compelled to go and ask that person to change his shirt. Instead, you would tell me to take care of it myself (and likely resent, with good cause, my attempt to avoid confrontation by placing the burden on you).
Private property law allows any business owner to set policies for their establishment and ask people to leave for essentially any reason (excepting those things protected against discrimination such as age, sex, race, etc.) Almost all businesses have wisely chosen not to discriminate against gun owners and instead just follow Utah law. This absolves them of the potential liabilities, and negative public relations problems associated with choosing to discriminate. Should NDG choose to adopt such an anti-gun stance, they would be the exception not the rule. I openly carry to my children's school, my bank, shopping, restaurants, airport to pickup people, etc.
To address a few other points. You asked me why I carried a gun (and if I felt unsafe at NDG). You also made it a point to say that "there are children here" (it was unclear to me if this was your own concern, or you were simply repeating the stated concern of the person who complained).
In response to your explicitly stated questions (and those implied), first: I carry a gun for defense; to protect myself and those around me. You will notice that this is precisely the same reason that police officers carry a weapon (which is why I asked you if you would be uncomfortable with an officer carrying a weapon at NDG).
Second, your question about if I felt unsafe at NDG implied that it would only be reasonable to carry a gun if I expected to be assaulted. My personal life experience and training has led me to conclude that we cannot predict when trouble will find us. I stopped trying to guess if I might need a weapon each day long ago and simply chose to make it part of my daily wardrobe. People minding their own business and quietly shopping at Trolley square did not wake up thinking that "someone might try and shoot me today". On a more personal level, I have had people close to me violently attacked without provocation in places that they had assumed to be "safe". In short, I don't choose when to carry my gun any more than I choose when to wear my seat belt based on how likely I think it is that I might get into an accident while driving that particular time. Interestingly, most law enforcement and security personnel are required to carry at all times instead of picking and choosing for the same reasons.
Finally, I'd like to strongly contest the idea that children being present is a valid reason for me not to carry a weapon. The implication here is that I am in some way endangering children. I resent this, and assert that the exact opposite is true (that they are more safe not less). This thought shows an ignorance of guns at least, and potentially an irrational fear of guns. Safety is of the utmost concern to me. To that end, I carry a well maintained modern gun with many safety features. I carry it in a retentive holster at all times to ensure no chance of accidental discharge. Furthermore, in the extremely unlikely event that I would need to draw the weapon in defense of myself or another, I have undergone extensive training at great time and expense to ensure that I can do so with proficiency. Assuming they were willing to follow similar safety procedures, I would be very appreciative if all adults around my children (such as their teachers) would also carry a gun. I have already entrusted these people with the safety of my children. They certainly don't need a gun to harm my children if they chose to, and a gun might enable them to effectively defend them if necessary. Some of the terrible school shootings in recent years could have been stopped far more quickly if each teacher had a gun...
The Constitutional "right to bear arms" provides the means to protect myself and those I care for. Our collective safety is more important than someone's "right to feel at ease". I respect both you and your feelings. After you have had a chance to think over these things, I'd like to talk with you in person and address any further concerns you might have."
PS. This is Leeland, but I can't get the password on my proper account to reset for some reason. email never arrives...
