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Thread: Detroit Auto Show

  1. #1
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    The auto show is held in the Cobo Hall which is a government owned building. Do they have the right to refuse you entry if you are open carrying a weapon? My understanding is that you would be within the law to carry there.

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    I think no since it holds more than 2500 people.

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    maustin195 wrote:
    The auto show is held in the Cobo Hall which is a government owned building. Do they have the right to refuse you entry if you are open carrying a weapon? My understanding is that you would be within the law to carry there.
    One of the first questions would be: Is it a Sports Arena (750.234d) or is it an Entertainment Facility (28.425o)? Either way, a person with a CPL could legally OC there....But forget about it. First of all, the likely-hood that you get past the entrance is most likely very low, at best. Second, the NAIAS has the ball in their field being the proprietor of the show they can make the calls. Third, the place--as always--is swamped with LEO's, to include a sh!t-load ofWayne County Reserve Deputies and other Deputies from surrounding counties. The bottom line is, don't carry or don't go.

    Edit: Sorry, I meant Wayne County.

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    someone needs to attempt it, with the financial backing of a collective group. Preemption applies to government buildings, this is obviously a government owned building.

    I think the chance of you ocing at cobo center is during the naias is zero. Legally they cannot stop you from oc'ing, but physically they will stop you. I think you could absolutely win in the courts....especially sine mcrgo v ferndale has already been decided by the supreme court.

    the question is, is it worth the fight? max fine is $500 and six month suspension of your cpl.

    According to cobo center's website, it is a convention center.
    It is definately NOT a sports arena or stadium. Is a convention center an entertainment facility? Seems like they would really have to stretch to make the definition fit. The purpose of an expo is for a manufacturer to showcase their wares. None of this matters, if you have a cpl and oc.
    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? (who will watch the watchmen?)

    I am not a lawyer. Nothing in any of posts should be construed as legal advice.

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    lapeer20m wrote:
    someone needs to attempt it, with the financial backing of a collective group. Preemption applies to government buildings, this is obviously a government owned building.

    I think the chance of you ocing at cobo center is during the naias is zero. Legally they cannot stop you from oc'ing, but physically they will stop you. I think you could absolutely win in the courts....especially sine mcrgo v ferndale has already been decided by the supreme court.

    the question is, is it worth the fight? max fine is $500 and six month suspension of your cpl.
    A person with a CPL who is OC'ing would not be on violation of any firearm laws in Michigan, he or she would only be in violation of possible NAIAS policy(ies), if any.

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    SpringerXDacp wrote:
    lapeer20m wrote:
    someone needs to attempt it, with the financial backing of a collective group. Preemption applies to government buildings, this is obviously a government owned building.

    I think the chance of you ocing at cobo center is during the naias is zero. Legally they cannot stop you from oc'ing, but physically they will stop you. I think you could absolutely win in the courts....especially sine mcrgo v ferndale has already been decided by the supreme court.

    the question is, is it worth the fight? max fine is $500 and six month suspension of your cpl.
    A person with a CPL who is OC'ing would not be on violation of any firearm laws in Michigan, he or she would only be in violation of possible NAIAS policy(ies), if any.
    The question then becomes what allows the NAIS to set any policy about gun laws in a government owned building. If they are allowed to then preemtion basically means nothing.

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    MrBfromD wrote:
    I think no since it holds more than 2500 people.
    It's seating capacity, not the number that can be in a building. There is an AG opinion on this. So the question is who owns the building private or public, then if leased does the leaser control the building?
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Cobo Center is a government owned contractor operated facility. It is not "leased" to any one. Olympia is an operator of Cobo Arena. They are not a "leasee". They pay the City of Detroit for the vendor rights. All of the vendors pay the City of Detroit a portion of their proceeds for exclusive rights to operate there. Some vendors even paid a "little under the table" to get those contracts. But that's a whole nother story.

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    I have to partly agree with you mike, but if we all just CC because its difficult, then what are we doing. If its a case of causing more harm than good, then ok, don't go.

    But one reason we do what we do, is to be able to do more of it. I cringe at the thought of just sitting idle, and doing nothing.

    When I started OCing, I really didn't realise I was joining up with a great movement, I didn't know about MOC, I wasn't trying to be politically active. It was my right to do so so I did. I wanted to carry a gun for all reasons redundant, I was waiting to get my CPL and while studying up on gun things, I found out I could OC! So I did.

    I have always been a bit of an outsider, the kid picked last, not getting to date, a former pothead, and a Christian. So having people look at me funny by carrying a gun openly was something of an entertainment to me. Being an x stoner primed me well for going against the legal system, and dealing with LEOs wasn't exactly a new thing to me. I kinda fit right in with the OC thing, and I love that I can try to do something like this to both try to resuscitate the constitution, and to maybe help somebody by opening the door to conversation which has happened many times as the result of my decision to OC.



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    mikestilly wrote:
    T Vance wrote:
    Venator wrote:
    MrBfromD wrote:
    I think no since it holds more than 2500 people.
    It's seating capacity, not the number that can be in a building. There is an AG opinion on this. So the question is who owns the building private or public, then if leased does the leaser control the building?
    I saw Slayer perform there a few years ago and they have well over 2,500 seats, but the actual Auto Show does not take place in the area where they have the seating or perform concerts.
    Well if Olympia is the tenant of the building private property rights are upheld. Concealed carry might be possible but the Cobo arena which is connected wouldnt be legal. It looks like the only legal option probably is open carry but you will not get far. I'd say you would be lucky get get a few feet in front of the entrance before security would be all over you. IMO they could ask you to leave or arrest you and you'd end up on the evening news as MWAG at the auto show. Doesn't really sound like a good idea.
    Olympia is NOT a tenant. They are under contract with the City of Detroit to OPERATE the ARENA facility. The contract is awarded on a competitive basis.

    As far as it not being a good idea to try to OC at the Auto Show, I have to agree. It makes about as much sense as trying to OC on the streets of Warren. You get the same MWAG response.

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    Venator wrote:
    MrBfromD wrote:
    I think no since it holds more than 2500 people.
    It's seating capacity, not the number that can be in a building. There is an AG opinion on this. So the question is who owns the building private or public, then if leased does the leaser control the building?
    I saw Slayer perform there a few years ago and they have well over 2,500 seats, but the actual Auto Show does not take place in the area where they have the seating or perform concerts.

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    T Vance wrote:
    Venator wrote:
    MrBfromD wrote:
    I think no since it holds more than 2500 people.
    It's seating capacity, not the number that can be in a building.* There is an AG opinion on this.* So the question is who owns the building private or public, then if leased does the leaser control the building?
    I saw Slayer perform there a few years ago and they have well over 2,500 seats, but the actual Auto Show does not take place in the area where they have the seating or perform concerts.
    Well if Olympia is the tenant of the building private property rights are upheld. Concealed carry might be possible but the Cobo arena which is connected wouldnt be legal. It looks like the only legal option probably is open carry but you will not get far. I'd say you would be lucky get get a few feet in front of the entrance before security would be all over you. IMO they could ask you to leave or arrest you and you'd end up on the evening news as MWAG at the auto show. Doesn't really sound like a good idea.

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    CV67PAT wrote:
    mikestilly wrote:
    T Vance wrote:
    Venator wrote:
    MrBfromD wrote:
    I think no since it holds more than 2500 people.
    It's seating capacity, not the number that can be in a building.* There is an AG opinion on this.* So the question is who owns the building private or public, then if leased does the leaser control the building?
    I saw Slayer perform there a few years ago and they have well over 2,500 seats, but the actual Auto Show does not take place in the area where they have the seating or perform concerts.
    Well if Olympia is the tenant of the building private property rights are upheld. Concealed carry might be possible but the Cobo arena which is connected wouldnt be legal. It looks like the only legal option probably is open carry but you will not get far. I'd say you would be lucky get get a few feet in front of the entrance before security would be all over you. IMO they could ask you to leave or arrest you and you'd end up on the evening news as MWAG at the auto show. Doesn't really sound like a good idea.
    Olympia is NOT a tenant. They are under contract with the City of Detroit to OPERATE the ARENA facility. The contract is awarded on a competitive basis.

    As far as it not being a good idea to try to OC at the Auto Show, I have to agree. It makes about as much sense as trying to OC on the streets of Warren. You get the same MWAG response.
    Well I feel your reasoning is a little off there. The auto show has a extremely high security where the streets of Warren you'd be lucky to get a MWAG call at all. A better analogy would be me walking in to a federal courthouse OC'ing. Oh an btw a client tenant signed agreement is considered a contract In this case the city is the client and Olympia is the tenant.

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    mikestilly wrote:
    CV67PAT wrote:
    mikestilly wrote:
    T Vance wrote:
    Venator wrote:
    MrBfromD wrote:
    I think no since it holds more than 2500 people.
    It's seating capacity, not the number that can be in a building. There is an AG opinion on this. So the question is who owns the building private or public, then if leased does the leaser control the building?
    I saw Slayer perform there a few years ago and they have well over 2,500 seats, but the actual Auto Show does not take place in the area where they have the seating or perform concerts.
    Well if Olympia is the tenant of the building private property rights are upheld. Concealed carry might be possible but the Cobo arena which is connected wouldnt be legal. It looks like the only legal option probably is open carry but you will not get far. I'd say you would be lucky get get a few feet in front of the entrance before security would be all over you. IMO they could ask you to leave or arrest you and you'd end up on the evening news as MWAG at the auto show. Doesn't really sound like a good idea.
    Olympia is NOT a tenant. They are under contract with the City of Detroit to OPERATE the ARENA facility. The contract is awarded on a competitive basis.

    As far as it not being a good idea to try to OC at the Auto Show, I have to agree. It makes about as much sense as trying to OC on the streets of Warren. You get the same MWAG response.
    Well I feel your reasoning is a little off there. The auto show has a extremely high security where the streets of Warren you'd be lucky to get a MWAG call at all. A better analogy would be me walking in to a federal courthouse OC'ing. Oh an btw a client tenant signed agreement is considered a contract In this case the city is the client and Olympia is the tenant.
    You're still wrong. Olympia is not a tenant. I KNOW so. I don't just THINK so.

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    Hey Guys.

    From dealing with these folks in the past I can tell you that Cobo is actually leased for the month of January to NAIAS LLC a private company and them can implament their own rules just like any private venture that rents or leases a space for an event. Such as a concert in a park that has limited admission can deny entry to a park or area of a park or limit the items able to be brought into the concert area. Same applies here.

    I dont have a ticket from a previous year but if memory serves there is a list of rules on the back. Someone might want to check that out if they go in the beginning of the show. I looked at the NAIAS website and didnt see anything about a code of Conduct or prohibited items. Most of it was media, vendor and sponsor info and access.

    I might be able to contact an old co-worker and see if they are still working iwth NAIAS for some stuff and see what I can scare up. I'll shoot off an email in a little bit.

    Radioman

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    Radioman wrote:
    Hey Guys.

    From dealing with these folks in the past I can tell you that Cobo is actually leased for the month of January to NAIAS LLC a private company and them can implament their own rules just like any private venture that rents or leases a space for an event. Such as a concert in a park that has limited admission can deny entry to a park or area of a park or limit the items able to be brought into the concert area. Same applies here.

    I dont have a ticket from a previous year but if memory serves there is a list of rules on the back. Someone might want to check that out if they go in the beginning of the show. I looked at the NAIAS website and didnt see anything about a code of Conduct or prohibited items. Most of it was media, vendor and sponsor info and access.

    I might be able to contact an old co-worker and see if they are still working iwth NAIAS for some stuff and see what I can scare up. I'll shoot off an email in a little bit.

    Radioman
    If this is the case, then who's leasing the place from November through December?

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    Not sure .. But I believe that the Boat show also leases for three or four weeks right behind the auto show. Not sure of the group that actually holds the lease for that or if there is one. Havent done work for that group. Weekend shows like Autorama might not have a lease but I havent researched any of that.

    I know about the auto show lease due to previous work situations and the contact folks for entry change in the Month of January to NAIAS and their hired security vendor from Cobo Hall / Olympia Entertainment Group. And all the equipment placement and connection requirements have to go thru two apporvals rather than just Cobo Hall / Olympia Entertainment Group. And seeing some of the contract clauses for the work done point to a leased space by NAIAS for the auto show duration.

    Radioman

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    I recall going to the Auto Show about 5 years ago and they had metal detectors setup as you entered.

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    Radioman wrote:
    Not sure .. But I believe that the Boat show also leases for three or four weeks right behind the auto show. Not sure of the group that actually holds the lease for that or if there is one. Havent done work for that group. Weekend shows like Autorama might not have a lease but I havent researched any of that.

    I know about the auto show lease due to previous work situations and the contact folks for entry change in the Month of January to NAIAS and their hired security vendor from Cobo Hall / Olympia Entertainment Group. And all the equipment placement and connection requirements have to go thru two apporvals rather than just Cobo Hall / Olympia Entertainment Group. And seeing some of the contract clauses for the work done point to a leased space by NAIAS for the auto show duration.

    Radioman
    I believe it is Cobo Arena/Olympia Entertainment not Cobo Hall. Olympia Entertainment has contract to operate the Arena not Cobo Hall.

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    Radioman wrote:
    Not sure .. But I believe that the Boat show also leases for three or four weeks right behind the auto show.* Not sure of the group that actually holds the lease for that or if there is one.* Havent done work for that group.* Weekend shows like Autorama might not have a lease but I havent researched any of that.*

    I know about the auto show lease due to previous work situations and the contact folks for entry change in the Month of January to NAIAS and their hired security vendor from Cobo Hall / Olympia Entertainment Group.* And all the equipment placement and connection requirements have to go thru two apporvals rather than just Cobo Hall / Olympia Entertainment Group.* And seeing some of the contract clauses for the work done point to a leased space by NAIAS for the auto show duration.

    Radioman
    Thanks for validating my several posts about leasing the property Some people just wont believe the truth even if it slaps them in the face

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    mikestilly wrote:
    Radioman wrote:
    Not sure .. But I believe that the Boat show also leases for three or four weeks right behind the auto show. Not sure of the group that actually holds the lease for that or if there is one. Havent done work for that group. Weekend shows like Autorama might not have a lease but I havent researched any of that.

    I know about the auto show lease due to previous work situations and the contact folks for entry change in the Month of January to NAIAS and their hired security vendor from Cobo Hall / Olympia Entertainment Group. And all the equipment placement and connection requirements have to go thru two apporvals rather than just Cobo Hall / Olympia Entertainment Group. And seeing some of the contract clauses for the work done point to a leased space by NAIAS for the auto show duration.

    Radioman
    Thanks for validating my several posts about leasing the property Some people just wont believe the truth even if it slaps them in the face
    Like those that willfully were lead off to their deaths?
    Just who is it that refuses to face reality here?

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    CV67PAT wrote:
    mikestilly wrote:
    Radioman wrote:
    Not sure .. But I believe that the Boat show also leases for three or four weeks right behind the auto show.* Not sure of the group that actually holds the lease for that or if there is one.* Havent done work for that group.* Weekend shows like Autorama might not have a lease but I havent researched any of that.*

    I know about the auto show lease due to previous work situations and the contact folks for entry change in the Month of January to NAIAS and their hired security vendor from Cobo Hall / Olympia Entertainment Group.* And all the equipment placement and connection requirements have to go thru two apporvals rather than just Cobo Hall / Olympia Entertainment Group.* And seeing some of the contract clauses for the work done point to a leased space by NAIAS for the auto show duration.

    Radioman
    Thanks for validating my several posts about leasing the property Some people just wont believe the truth even if it slaps them in the face
    Like those that willfully were lead off to their deaths?
    Just who is it that refuses to face reality here?
    CV67PAT: I suggest you then prove your point by OC'ing to the auto show. In your words they have no right to block your entry as they are not the "lease holder". Make so to have someone video tape it so I can post it on Youtube. It's nice to be all talk on a internet website why dont you do what your suggesting.


    Sorry I dont see your point in people being lead to their death and OC'ing.

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    CV67PAT wrote:
    mikestilly wrote:
    Some people just wont believe the truth even if it slaps them in the face
    Like those that willfully were lead off to their deaths?
    Here's the correlation.
    Some people are too stupid to see the truth.

    As far as Cobo Convention Center goes, I speak from first hand experience, having both worked there and carried concealed, with mgt knowledge, for years.

    And I have even been through the metal detectors after the security sweep just prior to black tie night. Upon presentation of my cpl, I was allowed access.

  25. #25
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    I CC at the Auto show the year before last. Went through an entrance without medal detectors, they just asked you to lift up your coat, they didn't ask, and I didn't tell. Prop not a good idea in retrospece. The whole 2500+ thing.
    "Bam, I like saying bam when I cite something, in fact I think I shall do this from here on out, as long as I remember.
    Bam!" - eastmeyers

    "Then said he to them, But now he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his sack: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."
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    God Bless

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