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Thread: Para USA Big Hawg

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    Regular Member 45acpForMe's Avatar
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    Are there other Big Hawg owners out there or past owners? I purchased one and received it this past week. I have shot it three times and had FTF problems each time using ball ammo.

    I like everthing else about this gun (weight, accuracy, capacity 14+1, grip size, style) but I can not carry it as a SD gun because of the FTF problem. I have pinged Para to see if they think it is a lemon or can resolve it somehow (stronger spring).

    There may be a breakin period too but none of my other 1911 (or others) needed such a breakin period. I broke it down and oiled it up but still had some FTF today.

    I have been looking for that perfect OC/SD gun in 45acp. While I love my Sig P220, its capacity of 8+1 (like my other 1911's) made me look for a higher capacity model. With 14+1 and extension magazines making it 15+1 I thought I found the perfect 45. The jury is still out....


    "Cogito, ergo armatum sum: I think, therefore I am armed."

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    Regular Member buster81's Avatar
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    http://1911talk.com/forum/

    This might be a good place to ask others.

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    Founder's Club Member Hawkflyer's Avatar
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    45acpForMe wrote:
    Are there other Big Hawg owners out there or past owners? I purchased one and received it this past week. I have shot it three times and had FTF problems each time using ball ammo.

    I like everthing else about this gun (weight, accuracy, capacity 14+1, grip size, style) but I can not carry it as a SD gun because of the FTF problem. I have pinged Para to see if they think it is a lemon or can resolve it somehow (stronger spring).

    There may be a breakin period too but none of my other 1911 (or others) needed such a breakin period. I broke it down and oiled it up but still had some FTF today.

    I have been looking for that perfect OC/SD gun in 45acp. While I love my Sig P220, its capacity of 8+1 (like my other 1911's) made me look for a higher capacity model. With 14+1 and extension magazines making it 15+1 I thought I found the perfect 45. The jury is still out....

    I have paras in all four sizes. If you don't go through the break in process it will not work right. Follow the manual instructions (I know this means you will have to read) and you will likely have no additional problems.

    After 500 to 700 rounds the thing should be getting smoothed up.

    They are very good pistols with tight tolerances. A lot of impatient people never give the gun a proper chance.
    "Research has shown that a 230 grain lead pellet placed just behind the ear at 850 FPS results in a permanent cure for violent criminal behavior."
    "If you are not getting Flak, you are not over the target"
    "186,000 Miles per second! ... Not just a good idea ... It's the law!"

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    Regular Member 45acpForMe's Avatar
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    Hawkflyer wrote:
    If you don't go through the break in process it will not work right. Follow the manual instructions (I know this means you will have to read) and you will likely have no additional problems.

    After 500 to 700 rounds the thing should be getting smoothed up.

    They are very good pistols with tight tolerances. A lot of impatient people never give the gun a proper chance.
    Thank you very much for that input. I really like this gun and want it to work. I also have two 15round mags on order. :-) I work on computers and never read the manuals so I figured guns would be similar. I guess I will have to drag myself to the range several times over the next couple weeks. Oh the misery! :celebrate
    "Cogito, ergo armatum sum: I think, therefore I am armed."

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    Founder's Club Member Hawkflyer's Avatar
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    Take particular note of the cooling periods and oiling instructions. If it still is too tight after 700 rounds, you CAN augment the process with a little judicious polishing, but that is not the recommended method.

    Good luck. You will like it VERY much.

    Yea those range trips are a real pain. Imagine my misery-


    "Research has shown that a 230 grain lead pellet placed just behind the ear at 850 FPS results in a permanent cure for violent criminal behavior."
    "If you are not getting Flak, you are not over the target"
    "186,000 Miles per second! ... Not just a good idea ... It's the law!"

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    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    +1 on everything already stated...

    I have a Para S-14.45, and it feeds and cycles like a champ, and feeds just about ANYTHING I put in it. I've never had a FTF, and I've put close to 2000 rounds through mine.

    Of course, I had it build on a "gunsmith receiver" by Novaks from the ground up, and they did a VERY nice "fluff and buff" on it, which helps make the break-in period slightly shorter.

    If you have a ramped barrel, you might consider taking to a gunsmith and have him polish the ramp. Some of the stock Para's with ramped barrels (the non-match-grade ones) are not as slick as they could be...

    Follow the "break-in instructions", and in a few hundred rounds, you should have a perfectly-functioning firearm. I trust my Para with my life, and I think most of the other Para owners here will agree.
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggressionŚand this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    That looks like a nice little family there Hawk.





    -Gruu

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    Founder's Club Member Hawkflyer's Avatar
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    TehGruu wrote:
    That looks like a nice little family there Hawk.





    -Gruu
    You bet! To every thing there is a purpose ....

    Sometimes more that two come along for a walk. That little P10.45 makes a nice BUG for a guy my size. (Big guys take note)
    "Research has shown that a 230 grain lead pellet placed just behind the ear at 850 FPS results in a permanent cure for violent criminal behavior."
    "If you are not getting Flak, you are not over the target"
    "186,000 Miles per second! ... Not just a good idea ... It's the law!"

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    Regular Member 45acpForMe's Avatar
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    Well I just got back from the range and put another 100 rounds through my Big Hawg. I had pinged Para and they recommended 1) breakin of 300 rounds and 2) don't use Blaser ammo. I don't know why the Hawg doesn't like Blaser but that was the first 150 rounds I used. Tonight I used remmington and federal and didn't have any jams. So either the gun is broken in or simply blaser doesn't agree with its digestive tract. :-) I plan to try a box of blaser next time just to satisfy my curiousity. So I have a total of 250 rounds through it and things are looking up.

    My blackhawk Serpa holster showed up and I used it for the first time today. I have to say a black gun in a black Serpa looks pretty darn good. Here are a few pics:
    "Cogito, ergo armatum sum: I think, therefore I am armed."

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    Regular Member 45acpForMe's Avatar
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    and pic 2
    "Cogito, ergo armatum sum: I think, therefore I am armed."

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    Founder's Club Member Hawkflyer's Avatar
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    45acpForMe wrote:
    Well I just got back from the range and put another 100 rounds through my Big Hawg. I had pinged Para and they recommended 1) breakin of 300 rounds and 2) don't use Blaser ammo. I don't know why the Hawg doesn't like Blaser but that was the first 150 rounds I used. Tonight I used remmington and federal and didn't have any jams. So either the gun is broken in or simply blaser doesn't agree with its digestive tract. :-) I plan to try a box of blaser next time just to satisfy my curiousity. So I have a total of 250 rounds through it and things are looking up.

    My blackhawk Serpa holster showed up and I used it for the first time today. I have to say a black gun in a black Serpa looks pretty darn good. Here are a few pics:
    Oh .... my! .... I going to have to visit my local dealer.

    If the Blaser ammo you are shooting has alloy casings, they are likely to hangup in feeding. The alloy is not a slippery as brass against the steel in the barrel. Also remember that .45 ACP head spaces on the case rim. It is possible that the blaser is not up to specs in that regard. I shoot Remington Golden Saber as carry ammo, and a mixture of brands of brass for reloads.
    "Research has shown that a 230 grain lead pellet placed just behind the ear at 850 FPS results in a permanent cure for violent criminal behavior."
    "If you are not getting Flak, you are not over the target"
    "186,000 Miles per second! ... Not just a good idea ... It's the law!"

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    I bought a Para Warthog a few months ago and hated it a first. It was so tight I couldn't rack the slide with the hammer down. The slide lock would back out a little while firing and bind the slide. This caused failure to return to battery and failure to lock back after the last shot.
    I had to return it to Para for some work. It came back and after about 400 rounds of break in it functioned flawlessly. I suggest you go to the Para Owners Association. There are people there who know Paras and will give good advice. Members also get priority on returns and repairs. Good luck. I love my Para now.

    Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.

    William Pitt



    "If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen."

    Samuel Adams

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    Jim...That IS good news. :celebrateJust give it some time to work itself in completely...I LOVED it's accuracy when we were shooting it Saturday. If you need some help feeding rounds through it...you've got my number !!!



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    Founder's Club Member Hawkflyer's Avatar
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    fully_armed_biker wrote:
    Jim...That IS good news.┬* :celebrate┬*Just give it some time to work itself in completely...I LOVED it's accuracy when we were shooting it Saturday.┬* If you need some help feeding rounds through it...you've got my number !!!

    ┬*
    Heck yes. If you want to send that thing over here I know just what and how much to feed it. Of course it may want to stay here with its extended family.
    "Research has shown that a 230 grain lead pellet placed just behind the ear at 850 FPS results in a permanent cure for violent criminal behavior."
    "If you are not getting Flak, you are not over the target"
    "186,000 Miles per second! ... Not just a good idea ... It's the law!"

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    Regular Member 45acpForMe's Avatar
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    Hawkflyer wrote:
    Heck yes. If you want to send that thing over here I know just what and how much to feed it. Of course it may want to stay here with its extended family.
    Hawk, while the Big Hawg would probably enjoy the family reunion, its behavioris still a bit unpolished (ramp) and show signs of being a little horny (not dehorned) so I would be afraid it would try to get its jam onwith your smaller attractive Para's. Being so young & foolish, your older more experienced 14.45 might get territorial and kick its butt.

    Alas I will have to suffer through the breakin period, ween it off ball ammo, then hollowpoint train, and work countless hours at the range. A fathers job is never done. Of course if you or fully_armed_biker want tostop by with a50-pack, we can pound some rounds downrange. (remember the big hawg can't digest blaser)

    I am really liking this gun, just have the same old issues cleaning it as opposed to other simpler to break down guns. The spring plug hit me in the forehead last time I broke it down.
    "Cogito, ergo armatum sum: I think, therefore I am armed."

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    Founder's Club Member Hawkflyer's Avatar
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    45acpForMe wrote:
    Hawkflyer wrote:
    Heck yes. If you want to send that thing over here I know just what and how much to feed it. Of course it may want to stay here with its extended family.
    Hawk, while the Big Hawg would probably enjoy the family reunion, its behavior┬*is still a bit unpolished (ramp) and show signs of being a little horny (not dehorned) so I would be afraid it would try to get its jam on┬*with your smaller attractive Para's.┬*┬* Being so young & foolish, your older more experienced 14.45 might get territorial and kick its butt.

    Alas I will have to suffer through the breakin period, ween it off ball ammo, then hollowpoint train, and work countless hours at the range.┬* A fathers job is never done.┬* Of course if you or fully_armed_biker want to┬*stop by with a┬*50-pack, we can pound some rounds downrange. (remember the big hawg can't digest blaser)

    I am really liking this gun, just have the same old issues cleaning it as opposed to other simpler to break down guns.┬*┬* The spring plug hit me in the forehead last time I broke it down.


    Well ... We don't stand much on form around here. Usually we can burn enough in one Single Action to at least semi-automatically break any "Mustangs", "Colts", "Anaconda's", "Pythons", "Desert Eagles", "Baby Eagles" or what have you. But obviously any "Witness" to this conversation will recognize that is all "Para" the issue at hand. We supply the full Range of Feed, Riders, and Leather tack for training our little friends and can Draw on years of experience supplying lead pellets to our backyard dirt mount.

    Just remember we are here to help if you need us.

    AS for the plug/spring thing, you can always become a hindu.
    "Research has shown that a 230 grain lead pellet placed just behind the ear at 850 FPS results in a permanent cure for violent criminal behavior."
    "If you are not getting Flak, you are not over the target"
    "186,000 Miles per second! ... Not just a good idea ... It's the law!"

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    Regular Member mel5051's Avatar
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    Gotta watch them springs!

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    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Hawkflyer,

    I thought you'd like the most recent pics of my Para. I got a new set of rosewood grips from Smith & Alexander on Saturday, and they look REALLY nice. They fit perfectly, but did require some minor fitting on the left panel because I have a slightly larger-than-normal safety. A few minutes with some emery paper and a craft knife and they fit like they were made for my specific setup! They really "dressed up" the looks of my Para, and they feel nice too--much better than the stock plastic grips that Para uses. I'll hopefully get out to the range this week to see how they effect the actual "shoot-ability" but I think they will actually help make me more accurate, because they feel really secure in my hand without that "sticky" feeling that rubber grips have.

    BTW, the folks at S&A are VERY nice, and shipped my new grips fast. I ordered them on Tuesday evening, and got them on Saturday--USPS first-class--AND they included a color catalog AND a really nicely-printed "Firearms Record" booklet, for recording all your firearms info. This company is HIGHLY recommended, especially if you are a Para owner.


    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggressionŚand this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    Founder's Club Member Hawkflyer's Avatar
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    Dreamer wrote:
    Hawkflyer,

    I thought you'd like the most recent pics of my Para. SNIP...
    Nice. I like the two tones. Wood grips look very nice particularly if the wood is highly figured. Rosewood is a particularly nice choice as is coca bola. Besides if you have to use the thing the wood will look better in court. You know... Evil black gun thing.

    Para makes their grips with size rather than beauty in mind. They have always advertised that their pistols are only 1/8 inch larger that a stock 1911 in the grip area. To do that they make the panels very thin. In part this is why we still have not seen any Crimson Trace grips for the Para series of pistols.

    While they are not everyones cup of tea, I am a fan of Houge grips, and use them on most of my pistols. They fit me like a glove and they make the grip a little fatter for bigger hands.

    I see your serpa is the same color as mine. I have been thinking about getting a black one so if I am wearing a coat it will hide in the shadow better.
    "Research has shown that a 230 grain lead pellet placed just behind the ear at 850 FPS results in a permanent cure for violent criminal behavior."
    "If you are not getting Flak, you are not over the target"
    "186,000 Miles per second! ... Not just a good idea ... It's the law!"

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    Regular Member 45acpForMe's Avatar
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    Just as an update, I went to the range last weekend and so far have 300 rounds through the Big Hawg. Being curious I put another box of Blaser Brass through it and had several FTF's. The last time I used remmington and didn't have a problem. So my plan now is to put another box or two of remmington through it and then try some Federal Hydrashok hollow points.

    This gun is in competition with my H&K USP (12+1) for my new daily carry gun. So far the H&K is kicking it's butt. I haven't had a single FTF or jam with the USP even using Blaser ammo. Once the Big Hawg has proven itself I will probably go back and forth between these two as my OC gun.
    "Cogito, ergo armatum sum: I think, therefore I am armed."

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    Regular Member 45acpForMe's Avatar
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    Well I now consider the Big Hawg broken in at around 400 rounds through it but it still does NOT like blaser brass!!!

    I put 50 rounds of blaser through it today with a FTF every other round. I had a heck of a time reassembling it and decided to order a GI guide rod and a spring cap. I hate having to use a tool to disassemble it and reassembly is worse. I have found that process has made me less willing to use the gun since it is a pain in the arse.

    So assuming it shoots well with the new hardware I won't have to abuse my fingers to assemble it anymore. I also ordered some 18lb springs just to try them out on my 3 1911's.
    "Cogito, ergo armatum sum: I think, therefore I am armed."

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    Buy a good revolver and quietly shoot round after round at whatever power level you feel like, not spray brass all over (and have to pick it up after) and forget these items forever:

    what a feeding jam is, a failure to eject, a stovepipe, a double feed, a dinged magazine, a too weak recoil spring, a too strong recoil spring, a set magazine spring, a limp wrist jam, an incompatible ammo problem, an ejector problem, an extractor problem, Tap-rack-Bang, etc.

    Just a thought.

  23. #23
    Regular Member 45acpForMe's Avatar
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    I actually may get some wheelguns in the future but for a daily carry gun I wanted something with higher capacity. My first choice for a revolver would be a S&W 629 but 6 shots doesn't sound that great in this day in age where people are carrying 19+1 (XDm).

    I will have to admit that this Big Hawg has needed more breakin than any of my other pistols and is sensitive to Blaser ammo which none of my other pistols are. I will need to put a couple hundred more (non-blaser)rounds through it to be more comfortable with it but I can't find anything that beats it capacity wise in 45acp! The gun is actually very light, the grip is barely bigger than a normal 1911 so the added capacity is a great plus.

    Wheelgunner wrote:
    Buy a good revolver and quietly shoot round after round at whatever power level you feel like, not spray brass all over (and have to pick it up after) and forget these items forever:

    what a feeding jam is, a failure to eject, a stovepipe, a double feed, a dinged magazine, a too weak recoil spring, a too strong recoil spring, a set magazine spring, a limp wrist jam, an incompatible ammo problem, an ejector problem, an extractor problem, Tap-rack-Bang, etc.

    Just a thought.
    BTW: This is the 629 I am drooling over and can't afford:
    "Cogito, ergo armatum sum: I think, therefore I am armed."

  24. #24
    Founder's Club Member Hawkflyer's Avatar
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    Wheelgunner wrote:
    Buy a good revolver and quietly shoot round after round at whatever power level you feel like, not spray brass all over (and have to pick it up after) and forget these items forever:

    ┬*what a feeding jam is, a failure to eject, a stovepipe, a double feed, a dinged magazine, a too weak recoil spring, a too strong recoil spring, a set magazine spring, a limp wrist jam, an incompatible ammo problem, an ejector problem, an extractor problem, Tap-rack-Bang, etc.

    Just a thought.
    Yea, and after erasing all those things from your memory you will have room to store all of the new information on, bullet back-out jams, Broken hand failures, revolver timing, Weak hammer spring misfire, inter-cylinder gap gas issues, forcing cone erosion, bullet shaving, reloader and moon clip carry methods, bent moon clips, reloader premature dump problems, and having six different chambers that all shoot just a little different. Yea, revolvers solve all the problems of handgun shooting.

    The fact is that any technology used to launch a pellet at high speed toward a target of aggravation will have limitations and compromises. It does not matter if the parts revolve or slide, each has merits and drawbacks. Pick what you are comfortable with, learn it, and carry it.

    Depending on the need I carry a revolver or a semi-auto as required. Sometimes both at once. I like my .45, but sometimes you just need to have a .500 Mag handy. Ain't life a bitch?

    Regards
    "Research has shown that a 230 grain lead pellet placed just behind the ear at 850 FPS results in a permanent cure for violent criminal behavior."
    "If you are not getting Flak, you are not over the target"
    "186,000 Miles per second! ... Not just a good idea ... It's the law!"

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    Yea, and after erasing all those things from your memory you will have room to store all of the new information on, bullet back-out jams, Broken hand failures, revolver timing, Weak hammer spring misfire, inter-cylinder gap gas issues, forcing cone erosion, bullet shaving, reloader and moon clip carry methods, bent moon clips, reloader premature dump problems, and having six different chambers that all shoot just a little different. Yea, revolvers solve all the problems of handgun shooting.
    This is funny!

    "Forcing cone erosions" (like erosion of the forcing cone would jam the weapon in the middle of a fight.

    Bent moonclips? Who uses moon clips? Oh you mean for the Reload! After you have already fired 6 times reliability!

    Bullet shaving? You mean using lead bullets in you carry piece?

    "Cylinder timing" You mean you went out with a broken weapon?

    Everyone acknowledges the inherent reliability of a revolver over an auto. The advent of an 8 shot 357 Mag S&W simply means that the launcher in question is more reliable and has equal capacity to a 1911 with greater power and that bullet shape is irrelevant.

    Please note I did not say that that revolvers "solve all the problems associated with handgunning" , you are trying to twist the argument. Leather, training, weapons size and weight and a thousand other difficulties are all factors that plague handgunners. But a revolver can deliver more power per shot, more reliability with less weight than any other weapon with equal if not better accuracy than nearly any auto. Plus its accuracy does not cause a drop in reliability as it does in a tight "Match" auto weapon.

    Nor will I delve into the operator techniques necessary to make the auto more reliable such as the "two handed" shooting techniques necessary to allow recoil to operate the mechanism that are difficult or fatal at very close combat ranges like the "isosceles". The limp wristed, awkward angle, "just pull from the holster and bang is the worst situation for an auto, the most likely to jam and the situation most common in defense shootings.

    The adoption of the auto by police was a step backwards for police, surrendering power and reliability for "more bullets" that were never really necessary. The "double tap" (shooting two rounds close together") is an acknowledgment that auto rounds (in this case 45 FMJ) lack stopping power and require multiple hits, a charge never leveled against the 357 Mag, the 41 Mag, or the 44 Mag.

    It's one factor where it is outclassed by the auto is total ammo load, which statistics show is a nearly irrelevant factor*. The study on auto vs revolver shootings found that auto wielders fired more and hit less and when they did hit, they hit more on the periphery than revolver shooters in actual gunfights**. (After reading that, I guess it IS good that Auto hold more bullets!)

    But I digress.


    *NYPD-SOP-9 Analysis of Police Combat


    **Impact of handgun types on gun assault outcomes: a comparison of gun assaults involving semiautomatic pistols and revolvers, D C Reedy1 and C S Koper2









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