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Thread: Opinion sought on guns at county parks

  1. #1
    Regular Member jbone's Avatar
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    Why is it some Councilmen see it as their choice, state law has already made the choice for them,their only job in this matter is to uphold state law. Local god like elitists?

    http://www.heraldnet.com/article/201...t.county.parks
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    I was planning to show up and put in my $.02 about the state constitution and preemption but regrettably discovered I have a schedule conflict. Short of going there I will be calling the key Council members today just so they hear from someone.

    Next we need to get Whatcom County to get off the dime. I've been getting shuffled by my contact on the Council here for a year now. Any Whatcom residents are cordially invited to join me for a push to get this done. PM me if you're interested.

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    I have a conflict called a job. How is it that local governments so often hold their public meetings when the taxpaying public is working?

    And read the comments. The one by Shueh is hysterical. He quotes a post that doesn't appear to exist, and then claims that local governments can usually pass a law that is stricter than state law. Did he even read the state law before spouting his drivel?

    Finally, what is the deal with amending your law to allow only CPL holders to carry in your parks? That still doesn't bring your law in line with state law. It would be interesting to OC while leaving your CPL at home if their law does change and then point out that you just didn't have it on you when you are hauled into court and sue for false arrest. Will their law specifically require that you be carrying your CPL on you while openly carrying? They couldn't enforce that, could they?

    CAN THIS THREAD BE MERGED? There is another thread that deals with the proposed amendment and answers the questions I asked in paragraph three.

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    heresolong wrote:
    I have a conflict called a job. How is it that local governments so often hold their public meetings when the taxpaying public is working?

    And read the comments. The one by Shueh is hysterical. He quotes a post that doesn't appear to exist, and then claims that local governments can usually pass a law that is stricter than state law. Did he even read the state law before spouting his drivel?

    Finally, what is the deal with amending your law to allow only CPL holders to carry in your parks? That still doesn't bring your law in line with state law. It would be interesting to OC while leaving your CPL at home if their law does change and then point out that you just didn't have it on you when you are hauled into court and sue for false arrest. Will their law specifically require that you be carrying your CPL on you while openly carrying? They couldn't enforce that, could they?

    CAN THIS THREAD BE MERGED? There is another thread that deals with the proposed amendment and answers the questions I asked in paragraph three.
    It probably should be merged. I hadn't read the Herald article before posting my comments to the Council's email, with copy to the other thread. I have just now read that idiotic article and now I wish I had used stronger language in my email. When will these people GET IT???

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    Regular Member jbone's Avatar
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    Same problem, The meeting they hold at the start of thier work day, also happens to fall in the middle of my workday. What a great way to say se the public was not concerned; they did'nt show up to speak.

    So as I would'nt give them that, I emailed my comment in as per John Koster's staff who worked the proposal.


    I知 proudly straight. I'm free to not support Legalization, GLBT, Illegal Aliens, or the Islamization of America.

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    Richard6218 wrote:
    I was planning to show up and put in my $.02 about the state constitution and preemption but regrettably discovered I have a schedule conflict. Short of going there I will be calling the key Council members today just so they hear from someone.

    Next we need to get Whatcom County to get off the dime. I've been getting shuffled by my contact on the Council here for a year now. Any Whatcom residents are cordially invited to join me for a push to get this done. PM me if you're interested.
    When is this I'll go if I can. I haven't had much work lately.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    sudden valley gunner wrote:
    Richard6218 wrote:
    I was planning to show up and put in my $.02 about the state constitution and preemption but regrettably discovered I have a schedule conflict. Short of going there I will be calling the key Council members today just so they hear from someone.

    Next we need to get Whatcom County to get off the dime. I've been getting shuffled by my contact on the Council here for a year now. Any Whatcom residents are cordially invited to join me for a push to get this done. PM me if you're interested.
    When is this I'll go if I can. I haven't had much work lately.
    Here's the link to the Council's info page: http://www1.co.snohomish.wa.us/Depar...uncil/Contact/

    The address is 8th floor, Bldg A, 3000 Rockefeller in Everett. The page has a link to a map, but it's pretty easy: take Exit 194 off I-5, right on Everett Ave, left on Maple, right onto Hewitt Ave and left on Rockefeller. There's a parking garage in the rear of Bldg A.

    The meeting is scheduled for 10:30.

    Good luck!

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Damn it's today!!! I didn't see that at first. I see they keep throwing out the buzz word "kids", I guess they feel they aren't worth protecting.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    I sent them a quick, terse, but polite email stating we already can carry and to refer to the RCWs so they can get their laws & rules in compliance.

    I'm sure they will disregard since I do not live in the area, but it can't hurt.

    Gary

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    I compare most Council members to those in charge of Home Owners Associations.
    "Think lightly of yourself and deeply of the world." ~ Musashi

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    PoppaGary wrote:
    I sent them a quick, terse, but polite email stating we already can carry and to refer to the RCWs so they can get their laws & rules in compliance.

    I'm sure they will disregard since I do not live in the area, but it can't hurt.

    Gary
    Anything you submit will be added to the public record, so that helps.

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    NavyLT wrote:
    Republican Councilman John Koster wants to change the county code so that people with a concealed-weapons permit would be allowed to carry guns onto county park property.
    In other words, STILL wants to VIOLATE state law!
    You guys are WAY behind the curve on this. Here is the text of the proposed ordinance:

    http://www.co.snohomish.wa.us/docume...s/20044283.pdf

    This bill would AMEND the county ordinance to comply with the RCW. Go to the third and fourth pages for the full text.

    As of 1PM today I'm still trying to find out how the vote went --- anyone know?

  13. #13
    Regular Member jbone's Avatar
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    I just called them and was told it did not pass.
    I知 proudly straight. I'm free to not support Legalization, GLBT, Illegal Aliens, or the Islamization of America.

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    jbone wrote:
    I just called them and was told it did not pass.
    Damn statist gun-haters

    We need to work up a new strategy. Maybe getting the AG into it might be a way to go.Any other ideas??? I'm going to go in a corner somewhere and SCREAM

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    jbone wrote:
    I just called them and was told it did not pass.
    There is a little bit of good news in that. At least they didn't f--- things up more. Now we just have an ordinance that is unenforceable when it comes to firearms. Any change would just throw more confusion into the mix.

    Don't fret, just vote. It's way past time for gun owners to become the political action group that others have. We should be like:

    Welfare Recipients

    Illegal Aliens

    Tree Huggers

    Teachers

    Unions

    All of the above have become vocal enough that they instil fear in public officials when they don't get their way. We have votes too so why don't we raise our voices more as a group instead of individuals? How many here support one of the "Lobbying Groups" that advocate gun rights? On the other side of the coin, how many here just complain that they aren't doing enough?
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    jbone wrote:
    I just called them and was told it did not pass.
    Come spring I think Snohomish parks will be receiving the OC picnic.
    "If we were to ever consider citizenship as the least bit matter of merit instead of birthright, imagine who should be selected as deserved representation of our democracy: someone who would risk their daily livelihood to cast an individually statistically insignificant vote, or those who wrap themselves in the flag against slightest slights." - agenthex

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Don't be disappointed if there is a Picnic and no law officers show up. I've been carrying in Sno. County parks for the last couple of years and not even a peep. Heck, some of their parks are filled with armed hunters during hunting season, coming or going to the hunting areas.

    I predict that the only problems in the future will be when someone is doing something MORE than merely carrying a handgun.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    Regular Member jbone's Avatar
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    I Just had a nice talk with Barbara Chapman, Councilmember's Legislative Aide.

    Councilman Koster is not happy with the outcome, very concerned about how his fellow councilmember's justblew off state law. It can be brought to the floor again, will take pressure on the other four councilmember's.

    It was suggested that everyone write thefour law breakers that refused to recognize Councilmember's motion a letter, and you what to say. Imay even Cc County Executive Aaron Reardon, and the state AG as well. This is unbelievable, the arrogance of these four.

    She also said the turn out numbers were good on the speaker side and sent in comments.
    I知 proudly straight. I'm free to not support Legalization, GLBT, Illegal Aliens, or the Islamization of America.

  19. #19
    Regular Member jbone's Avatar
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    Here are the four criminals;

    Chair Dave Gossett, District 4;Vice-Chair Dave Somers, District 5;Councilmember Mike Cooper, District 3; Councilmember Brian Sullivan, District 2

    Just saw the new story on King 5, thefourcriminals give him the cold shoulder. The story also said even the County Prosecutor said the ban was illegal.
    I知 proudly straight. I'm free to not support Legalization, GLBT, Illegal Aliens, or the Islamization of America.

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    NavyLT wrote:
    Somebody could bring charges against them or a lawsuit against them under the Coercion statute.

    Or maybe they are waiting to see how the Seattle court case goes. Maybe if Seattle gets shot down, the county will look again.

    I am up for a picnic in the park, right under the no firearms sign.
    Given enough notice I will show up as well. Hotdogs areespecialy good when eaten next to no firearms signs.
    Throw me to the wolves and I will come back leading the pack.

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    It's been a busy day for me. I thought I would try to post my perception of how the Snohomish County council hearing wentfor the proposed revision to bring the parks law in compliance with state law. I took the time off from work so I could testify. It wasn't a good day for me to go. My workplace was in crisis mode but attending this hearing was important.

    A staff member was first up. He talked about state law, pre-emption and the county law. I was thinking that this guy almost made the whole case for us.

    The first two to testify were a couple of nice little old ladies who wanted to keep parks safe for kids. Some of the usual misguided arguments were made. Children and guns don't mix. This isn't the Wild West. Then we started getting into the pro-gun side. Most of us were a little nervous but did a good job making points on why this law should be changed to reflect state law. Many stated their unhappiness with this law. Quite a few shared that they were CHL holders. Some were NRA members.

    I was one of the last public speakers to testify. I cited the relevant segment of the RCWs that pertain to this issue as well as article 24 of our state constitution which allows us to "bear" arms in defense of ourselves and the state. Rather than present my pro-gun leanings, I stressed the fact that I was a parent, lived in Snohomish county, had 4 kids,named a couple of parks we have used, indicated friends who had issues in the parksand that I had no problem with anyone who legally possessed a gun in a county park. One of the ladies had talked about how there would be shoot outs in the parks if sports teams had disputes. During my 3 minutes I countered with the safety records of over 200,000 CHL holders in this state.

    After the public testimony was taken. The motion was made by Councilman John Koster to vote on this measure. Do I hear a second? . . . . .visualize council members staring at the ceiling. . . . . . checking the time on their watch . . . .. checking their manicure. . . . .almost reminded me of that old statuette of the 3 monkeys except for there was a fourth one, perhaps poised with a digit up their posterior . . . . . not one word. "The motion fails." Some one in the back muttered out, "cowards!". There was couple of young students in the back, there with their mother to observe the proceedings. After the motion failed, I told them that's how government works.

    My perception from an article in the Everett Herald was that the other 4 councilmen would not be favorable to gun rights. I was right. I had testified at another public hearing before most of these same councilmen and they haven't changed. The theory of the dirty diaper really applies to these 4 and they need to be voted out.

    John Koster chastised the rest of the council for their failure to act on this law revision. Hedismissed the Wild West argument relevant to when these laws were enacted. He also addressed the pro-gun folks stating that we really haven't lost anything as state law has already ruled this irrelevant. It was obvious he wasn't happy with his fellow council members, especially their tactic of not offering a second to bring this to a vote.

    It must be a really lonely job being the only Republican on the county council. I'm glad he's there or we would have no voice to represent us. If any of you do have the time to contact these council members, perhaps drop a kind word to Councilman Koster and thank him for his effort. He did his part bringing this revision up for a vote. We need to support him by showing up as many pro-gun citizens did. There is strength in numbers. More numbers would beeven better.

    I rode the elevator down with the pro-gun crowd. Since this website is where I first learned of this hearing and some folks here said they were going, I was hoping to perhaps make some connections. A few said they had been to this websiteto visit but none were really from this group. Maybe next time.

    The question is: Where do we go from here?







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    I would suggest flooding their e-mail and snail mail with letters stressing theirdereliction in not following the wishes of their constituency as well as intentional violation of state law.

    Each letter should be addressed to the individual and not sent as a form letter to one person with cc to the others. Stress the voting ability of the people they are elected to SERVE. Reminding them that the power to govern comes from the people to the leaders, not, from the leaders to the people.

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    Would it do any good to mention in the letters thatnow that they areaware that their law is not legal and prempted that lawsuits may follow illegal arrests. The arresting officers would likley not be sued but the County I would think could be.
    Throw me to the wolves and I will come back leading the pack.

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    Sounds good with maybe a copy to the local media

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    NavyLT awesome letter
    Throw me to the wolves and I will come back leading the pack.

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