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HB 505: Concealed handguns; restaurants

paramedic70002

paramedic70002

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Another poorly worded bill. Eliminate the word "concealed." As written OCers can still drink. I'd rather have a blanket prohibition, despite some who think it should be allowed. To each his own opinion.

The law still allows you to show up drunk, just not to drink while there.

Is there a law that makes it illegal to be drunk and armed? If so, this bill is redundant.
 
G

Glock27Bill

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How in the heck do you enforce someone not drinking while they have an object on them that is "hidden from common observation?"

If I pull into a restaurant with a VCDL sticker on my vehicle and have a beer with my meal, is that sufficient reason to search me to see if I'm carrying?
 
S

simmonsjoe

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paramedic70002 wrote:
Another poorly worded bill. Eliminate the word "concealed." As written OCers can still drink. I'd rather have a blanket prohibition, despite some who think it should be allowed. To each his own opinion.

The law still allows you to show up drunk, just not to drink while there.

Is there a law that makes it illegal to be drunk and armed? If so, this bill is redundant.
Click to expand...
Yes. It is illegal to be intoxicated while armed in VA.
 
wylde007

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This bill is the less-desirable, but still progressively liberating, bill.

Can't drink while armed, CHP. Gonna have to VA tuck if I want a beer.

Oh, wait. I OC anyhow. :D
 
TFred

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HB 505 passed the House with a good margin, 67-27.

There were amendments, the changed paragraph now reads:

(ETA: Oops, this BB software doesn't do strikethrough... the red text is struck, the green text is added.)

J3. No person shall carry who carries a concealed handgun onto the premises of any restaurant or club as defined in § 4.1-100 for which a license to sell and serve alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption has been granted by the Virginia Alcoholic Beverage Control Board under Title 4.1 of the Code of Virginia may consume an alcoholic beverage while on the premises; however, nothing herein regarding the consumption of alcohol shall prohibit any sworn apply to a federal, state, or local law-enforcement officer or any a retired law-enforcement officer who meets the definition of a "qualified retired law-enforcement officer" pursuant to 18 U.S.C. § 926C and is carrying the identification required by such statute from carrying a concealed handgun on the premises of such restaurant or club or any owner or event sponsor or his employees from carrying a concealed handgun while on duty at such restaurant or club if such person has a concealed handgun permit.
 
N

NovaCop

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TFred wrote:
HB 505 passed the House with a good margin, 67-27.

There were amendments, the changed paragraph now reads:

(ETA: Oops, this BB software doesn't do strikethrough... the red text is struck, the green text is added.)

J3. No person shall carry who carries a concealed handgun onto the premises of any restaurant or club as defined in § 4.1-100 for which a license to sell and serve alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption has been granted by the Virginia Alcoholic Beverage Control Board under Title 4.1 of the Code of Virginia may consume an alcoholic beverage while on the premises; however, nothing herein regarding the consumption of alcohol shall prohibit any sworn apply to a federal, state, or local law-enforcement officer or any a retired law-enforcement officer who meets the definition of a "qualified retired law-enforcement officer" pursuant to 18 U.S.C. § 926C and is carrying the identification required by such statute from carrying a concealed handgun on the premises of such restaurant or club or any owner or event sponsor or his employees from carrying a concealed handgun while on duty at such restaurant or club if such person has a concealed handgun permit.
Click to expand...
Didn't hear about these new changes. So if I am adding this up in my head right... CCW permit holders are now allowed to carry into bars and restaurants but just can't drink while carrying inside? Only law enforcement can drink with their guns concealed? I'm going to have to do some more research.
 
TFred

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NovaCop10 wrote:
TFred wrote:
HB 505 passed the House with a good margin, 67-27.

There were amendments, the changed paragraph now reads:

(ETA: Oops, this BB software doesn't do strikethrough... the red text is struck, the green text is added.)

J3. No person shall carry who carries a concealed handgun onto the premises of any restaurant or club as defined in § 4.1-100 for which a license to sell and serve alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption has been granted by the Virginia Alcoholic Beverage Control Board under Title 4.1 of the Code of Virginia may consume an alcoholic beverage while on the premises; however, nothing herein regarding the consumption of alcohol shall prohibit any sworn apply to a federal, state, or local law-enforcement officer or any a retired law-enforcement officer who meets the definition of a "qualified retired law-enforcement officer" pursuant to 18 U.S.C. § 926C and is carrying the identification required by such statute from carrying a concealed handgun on the premises of such restaurant or club or any owner or event sponsor or his employees from carrying a concealed handgun while on duty at such restaurant or club if such person has a concealed handgun permit.
Click to expand...
Didn't hear about these new changes. So if I am adding this up in my head right... CCW permit holders are now allowed to carry into bars and restaurants but just can't drink while carrying inside? Only law enforcement can drink with their guns concealed? I'm going to have to do some more research.
Click to expand...
No, the red text is "struck", or deleted. As the law reads now, no person shall carry a concealed weapon etc... The new law under consideration says no person who carries ... shall drink.

Imagine the red text as having a line through it. This BB won't do that.

TFred
 
Wolf_shadow

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So if you remove the red text the current billreads as:

J3. No person who carries a concealed handgun onto the premises of any restaurant or club as defined in § 4.1-100 for which a license to sell and serve alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption has been granted by the Virginia Alcoholic Beverage Control Board under Title 4.1 of the Code of Virginia may consume an alcoholic beverage while on the premises; however, nothing herein regarding the consumption of alcohol shall apply to a federal, state, or local law-enforcement officer ora retired law-enforcement officer who meets the definition of a "qualified retired law-enforcement officer" pursuant to 18 U.S.C. § 926C and is carrying the identification required by such statute.
Click to expand...

Correct?
 
gis

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ed wrote:
wylde007 wrote:
Gonna have to VA tuck if I want a beer.
Click to expand...
Of course there is always the option of not drinking in public while armed and avoid creating the perception that all gun owners drink while carrying.
Click to expand...
I agree with Ed. It sends a bad message and petentially opens one to greater civil liability. Also, don't "feed" the antis.
 
TFred

TFred

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Wolf_shadow wrote:
So if you remove the red text the current billreads as:

J3. No person who carries a concealed handgun onto the premises of any restaurant or club as defined in § 4.1-100 for which a license to sell and serve alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption has been granted by the Virginia Alcoholic Beverage Control Board under Title 4.1 of the Code of Virginia may consume an alcoholic beverage while on the premises; however, nothing herein regarding the consumption of alcohol shall apply to a federal, state, or local law-enforcement officer ora retired law-enforcement officer who meets the definition of a "qualified retired law-enforcement officer" pursuant to 18 U.S.C. § 926C and is carrying the identification required by such statute.
Click to expand...
Correct?
Click to expand...
Yep!

TFred
 
wylde007

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gis wrote:
I agree with Ed. It sends a bad message and petentially opens one to greater civil liability. Also, don't "feed" the antis.
Click to expand...
I appreciate your perspective, but I do not share it.

Went out last night for sushi with my wife and son. OC'ed. Had a beer with my supper

No problems. No funny looks. Very enjoyable evening.
 
2a4all

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wylde007 wrote:
gis wrote:
I agree with Ed. It sends a bad message and petentially opens one to greater civil liability. Also, don't "feed" the antis.
Click to expand...
I appreciate your perspective, but I do not share it.

Went out last night for sushi with my wife and son. OC'ed. Had a beer with my supper

No problems. No funny looks. Very enjoyable evening.
Click to expand...
It isn't just about "No funny looks".

Think about why you carry in the 1st place. And if you needed to employ your weapon in a self defense situation. The investigation would reveal that you had been drinking. Whether you had notover-indulged would be for you to prove, and since there is no standard blood alcohol limit which applies to DWA (Drunk While Armed), you'd beleaving yourself open to some potentially serious criminal charges and some serious civil liability.

Just my .02
 
9

9MM Owner

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2a4all wrote:
wylde007 wrote:
gis wrote:
I agree with Ed. It sends a bad message and petentially opens one to greater civil liability. Also, don't "feed" the antis.
Click to expand...
I appreciate your perspective, but I do not share it.

Went out last night for sushi with my wife and son. OC'ed. Had a beer with my supper

No problems. No funny looks. Very enjoyable evening.
Click to expand...
It isn't just about "No funny looks".

Think about why you carry in the 1st place. And if you needed to employ your weapon in a self defense situation. The investigation would reveal that you had been drinking. Whether you had notover-indulged would be for you to prove, and since there is no standard blood alcohol limit which applies to DWA (Drunk While Armed), you'd beleaving yourself open to some potentially serious criminal charges and some serious civil liability.

Just my .02
Click to expand...
I totally agree, BUT, if leos can carry and drink, what kind of a message and or problems will that create? I understand why we shouldn't drink and carry (it makes complete sense). Why not just make it NO DRINKING WHILE CARRYING PERIOD! Nobody should be able to reguardless of who they are. I wouldn't feel comfortable if I were in a bar/restuarantand a fight or something broke out where one person pulled a knife (hopefully not a gun but you never know these days) and a leo, while under the influence, drew/fired his/her gun and an innocent person was wounded or died.How would the law suits be filed and who all would be sued? The leo, the city, the state?

How would you feel if you out to dinner a leo who had been drinking and is carrying started asking you a bunch of questions about you CCing in a bar/restuarant in which you were drinking soda and water only?
 
wylde007

wylde007

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I'm aware of what some people "think" it is and isn't about.

If I have to deploy my personal defensive weapon and I have been drinking then I will deal with the consequences.

You feel that I shouldn't have a drink when I carry. Others feel we shouldn't carry at all.

Now, to me, you're no better than them if you believe for one minute that your personal opinion should override my rights under the law for some "appearance".

Think about the hypocrisy of that for a minute. Trust me, I understand and appreciate your perception and that it is commonly held by many of my open-carrying brethren... but it is not held by all of them and it is not the law. It is an opinion and an opinion only.
 
2a4all

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9MM Owner wrote:
2a4all wrote:
wylde007 wrote:
gis wrote:
I agree with Ed. It sends a bad message and petentially opens one to greater civil liability. Also, don't "feed" the antis.
Click to expand...
I appreciate your perspective, but I do not share it.

Went out last night for sushi with my wife and son. OC'ed. Had a beer with my supper

No problems. No funny looks. Very enjoyable evening.
Click to expand...
It isn't just about "No funny looks".

Think about why you carry in the 1st place. And if you needed to employ your weapon in a self defense situation. The investigation would reveal that you had been drinking. Whether you had notover-indulged would be for you to prove, and since there is no standard blood alcohol limit which applies to DWA (Drunk While Armed), you'd beleaving yourself open to some potentially serious criminal charges and some serious civil liability.

Just my .02
Click to expand...
I totally agree, BUT, if leos can carry and drink, what kind of a message and or problems will that create? I understand why we shouldn't drink and carry (it makes complete sense). Why not just make it NO DRINKING WHILE CARRYING PERIOD! Nobody should be able to reguardless of who they are. I wouldn't feel comfortable if I were in a bar/restuarantand a fight or something broke out where one person pulled a knife (hopefully not a gun but you never know these days) and a leo, while under the influence, drew/fired his/her gun and an innocent person was wounded or died.How would the law suits be filed and who all would be sued? The leo, the city, the state?

How would you feel if you out to dinner a leo who had been drinking and is carrying started asking you a bunch of questions about you CCing in a bar/restuarant in which you were drinking soda and water only?
Click to expand...
I wouldn't oppose a total ban on alcohol consumption while OC/CCing. As for lawsuits, that's for the lawyers to figure out, but unless you're a victim, you likely wouldn't have standing.

Why would a LEO be asking me questions in the 1st place? How would s/heknow I was CCing? As I only drink water with my meals, I don't see much of a conversation starter.
 
paramedic70002

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Yep sounds good to me. The only exception I can think of is when LEOs must work undercover and drink to keep their cover.

I was in court once and witnessed a case like that. The officer testified that he sipped part of a mixed drink, but the rest he spit back out. The defense attorney tried pretty hard to impune his testimony as being under the influence but it didn't fly. The case was Suffolk PD busting a nip joint.
 
gis

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2a4all wrote:
9MM Owner wrote:
2a4all wrote:
wylde007 wrote:
gis wrote:
I agree with Ed. It sends a bad message and petentially opens one to greater civil liability. Also, don't "feed" the antis.
Click to expand...
I appreciate your perspective, but I do not share it.

Went out last night for sushi with my wife and son. OC'ed. Had a beer with my supper

No problems. No funny looks. Very enjoyable evening.
Click to expand...
It isn't just about "No funny looks".

Think about why you carry in the 1st place. And if you needed to employ your weapon in a self defense situation. The investigation would reveal that you had been drinking. Whether you had notover-indulged would be for you to prove, and since there is no standard blood alcohol limit which applies to DWA (Drunk While Armed), you'd beleaving yourself open to some potentially serious criminal charges and some serious civil liability.

Just my .02
Click to expand...
I totally agree, BUT, if leos can carry and drink, what kind of a message and or problems will that create? I understand why we shouldn't drink and carry (it makes complete sense). Why not just make it NO DRINKING WHILE CARRYING PERIOD! Nobody should be able to reguardless of who they are. I wouldn't feel comfortable if I were in a bar/restuarantand a fight or something broke out where one person pulled a knife (hopefully not a gun but you never know these days) and a leo, while under the influence, drew/fired his/her gun and an innocent person was wounded or died.How would the law suits be filed and who all would be sued? The leo, the city, the state?

How would you feel if you out to dinner a leo who had been drinking and is carrying started asking you a bunch of questions about you CCing in a bar/restuarant in which you were drinking soda and water only?
Click to expand...
I wouldn't oppose a total ban on alcohol consumption while OC/CCing. As for lawsuits, that's for the lawyers to figure out, but unless you're a victim, you likely wouldn't have standing.

Why would a LEO be asking me questions in the 1st place? How would s/heknow I was CCing? As I only drink water with my meals, I don't see much of a conversation starter.
Click to expand...
I didn't say that I like the current wording of the law. There is nothing in the LEOs training that qualifies him/her to carry while under the influence of alcohol. Whether one is a LEO or a civilian, I think that drinking and carrying (open or concealed) isa bad idea. I was a LEO in a state where drinking and carrying was prohibited whether you were a LEO or not. There were both LEOs and civilians who ignored the law. Most got away with it, but a small percentage got into trouble including getting sued civilly, losing their jobs and pensions. I guess, it's up to the individual, but I don't need a drink that badly.
 
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