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Thread: Read This First - California Open Carry Information

  1. #1
    Founder's Club Member MudCamper's Avatar
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    Post California Open Carry FAQs, Flyers, Memos, and Links

    AB144 passed and was signed into law. Effective January 1, 2012, it is illegal to open carry (unloaded or otherwise) a handgun in most of California.

    California Open Carry FAQ

    These documents are no longer accurate nor applicable to handguns:
    California Open Carry Flyer (legal info)
    California Open Carry Pamphlet (.doc) (pdf) (legal info)
    Is It Loaded Pamphlet (legal info)
    Yet another pamphlet (more PR than legal)

    The Newbie Thread
    Nate's In-Depth Open Carry FAQ

    Open Carry California Blog (San Diego)
    Open Carry Training Videos
    Open Carry Radio
    Bay Area Open Carry (SF Bay Area)
    East Bay Open Carry (SF Bay Area)
    707 Open Carry (Vallejo)
    South Bay Open Carry (LA)
    NorCal Open Carry
    Responsible Citizens of California
    Contra Costa Open Carry (SF Bay Area)

    These documents are no longer accurate nor applicable to handguns:
    Sacramento Police Department Memo on Open Carry 07/18/08
    Sacramento Regional Terrorism Threat Assessment Center Open Carry Bulletin 07/24/08
    California Peace Officers Association Open Carry Memo 12/04/08
    Los Angeles District Attorney Open Carry Memo 12/23/08
    Los Angeles Sheriff's Department Open Carry Memo 01/05/09
    San Diego Police Department Open Carry Bulletin 12/18/08
    Orange County Sheriff's Department Open Carry Bulletin 02/??/09
    Oceanside Police Department Open Carry Training Memo 03/12/09
    San Diego District Attorney Open Carry Training Bulletin 03/??/09
    Sunnyvale Department of Public Safety OC Memo 10/13/09 (good memo)
    San Mateo Sheriff's Office Open Carry Memo 01/14/10 (very bad memo)
    Golden Gate Park Open Carry Memo 01/26/10
    Livermore PD UOC Response 09/01/10 (see page 7-8)
    San Fernando PD Schooling 12/20/10 (start on page 7) (great document)

    Firearms in Forests and Parks
    CGF Gun Wiki Legal FAQ

    California Penal Code (and other codes)
    California Code of Regulations
    County and City Codes (not complete)

    Don't Talk to the Police (video)
    Citizen's Guide to Surviving Police Encounters (video)

    Draw and load in 2 seconds (video)
    Draw, load, and shoot in 2 seconds (video)

    Status of California Gun Laws - a good writeup of where we are and where we're headed, in layman's language
    Last edited by MudCamper; 01-06-2012 at 02:25 PM.

  2. #2
    Founder's Club Member MudCamper's Avatar
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    Post Legal Reference

    People v Clark (12031 loaded clarification)

    People v Hale (concealed magazines)

    12031 vs 374c, unincorporated, roads vs streets:
    51 Ops.Cal.Atty.Gen. 197, 200 (1968)
    People v Knight
    People v Segura

    Hiibel v. Sixth (stop-and-identify) (not applicable in CA)
    Kolender v. Lawson (stop-and-identify is not legal in CA)
    Terry v Ohio (Terry-stop)
    Arizona v. Hicks (plain view doctrine)

    reasonable suspicion
    probable cause

    People v DeLong (12031(e) legal but limited)
    People v Overturf (semi-public vs private place, carry vs have/keep)
    People v Strider (fenced yard not public)

    42 U.S.C. 1983 (civil suit for violation of rights)
    Last edited by MudCamper; 09-08-2010 at 11:45 AM.

  3. #3
    Founder's Club Member MudCamper's Avatar
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    Last edited by MudCamper; 04-15-2011 at 04:45 PM.

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    Regular Member A ECNALG's Avatar
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  5. #5
    Founder's Club Member MudCamper's Avatar
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    Post imported post

    Great suggestions, A ECNALG. I'll add them to the second post as well.

    Also I'm adding The Newbie Thread. How did I forget that.

  6. #6
    Regular Member wewd's Avatar
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    How about your firearms in forests and parks thread?
    Do you want to enjoy liberty in your lifetime?

    Consider moving to New Hampshire as part of the Free State Project.

    "Live Free or Die"

  7. #7
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    Excellent idea... now we only have one thread to bump constantly.

    Mike, if you're reading this... yes, I'm still bitching about not having stickies on the forum!
    Participant in the Free State Project - "Liberty in Our Lifetime" - www.freestateproject.org
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    Don't Tread On Me.

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    Founder's Club Member MudCamper's Avatar
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    CA_Libertarian wrote:
    Excellent idea... now we only have one thread to bump constantly.
    Except for maybe Decoligny's tri-fold post, because I like his "Over X million served!" updates.

    Bump for the addition of the various TV news links.


  9. #9
    Founder's Club Member MudCamper's Avatar
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    BTT

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    i was just looking for this to bump it. then i said "screw it" and returned to page one to find it bumped already!

    LE agencies that are looking at this forum really need to take the time to read and understand this info.

    i dont like that while uocing, i feel that the biggest threat to me is the police. this is only natural as 99% of my negative uoc experience has been directly due to law enforcement.

    the best way for uocers and law enforcement to get along is to have civil, lawful, and short interactions. i feel that the palo alto police department at the march meet up will likely have a very positive impact on myself and the other UOCers at the event. if every police interaction happens like i hope palo alto will, i think uocers and leo would have a decent relationship.

    it is also important to note that many of the memos say that we are looking for a law suit. this is simply not true. where are the law suits?????? i dont know of any. the reasons we record our conversations with a/v is for the same reason that the police do, to protect oursleves. im sure LEO has used their a/v several times in their defense against people saying they were beat or mistreated. we need our a/v to defend against leo saying that we were concealing ornot complying, or any other charge they may fabricate. i know there are honest cops out there that know right from wrong and try their best to do right, but there is always that bad apple that we have to protect ourselves from.
    When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty.

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    Founder's Club Member MudCamper's Avatar
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    dirtykoala wrote:
    it is also important to note that many of the memos say that we are looking for a law suit.
    The sad reality is that without the perceived threat of law suits, the LEAs would never have circulated the memos, and would never have informed their officers about the legal details of 12025(f), People v Clark, etc.

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    Now this is in the right thread:

    I think the press release from the San Mateo County Sheriff should be listed with the Law Enforcement memos at CaliforniaOpenCarry.org

    Might as well show the Good, The Bad and The Ugly memos.


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    Thank you for posting this.



    Jason

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    Founder's Club Member MudCamper's Avatar
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    SFWD 1934 wrote:
    Thank you for posting this.
    You're welcome! But know it's been a collaborative effort of a lot of us hashing out the information.

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    I don't have a copy or link, but maybe we could add Overturf? Just in case someone thinks they can carry a loaded gun at their place of business.

    People v Delong
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    Don't Tread On Me.

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    Founder's Club Member MudCamper's Avatar
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    CA_Libertarian wrote:
    I don't have a copy or link, but maybe we could add Overturf? Just in case someone thinks they can carry a loaded gun at their place of business.

    People v Delong
    Done. But I linked the findlaw.com pages, which do require and account, but accounts are free.

  17. #17
    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
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    Nudge to the top.
    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


    Support the 2A in California - Shop Amazon for any item and up to 15% of all purchases go back to the Calguns Foundation. Enter through either of the following links
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  18. #18
    Regular Member Decoligny's Avatar
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    Like cream, rising to the top.

  19. #19
    Newbie cato's Avatar
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    btt



    art work by oleg volk:

  20. #20
    Newbie cato's Avatar
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    MudCamper wrote:
    probably cause


  21. #21
    Regular Member Decoligny's Avatar
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    like a cork in water

    pops to the top

  22. #22
    Regular Member A ECNALG's Avatar
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    Please excuse any duplicity.

    People should be familiar enough with this material so that in the event of a contact with law enforcementthat goesbeyond PC 12031e, one may knowledgeably discuss the matter with the officer or deputy in a civil fashion.



    DEFINITIONS:[/b]

    [/b]
    “Plain View” Doctrine
    [/b]
    http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Plain+View+Doctrine

    http://policelink.monster.com/training/articles/2043-plain-view-doctrine-


    Reasonable Suspicion / Cause
    [/b]
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reasonable_suspicion

    http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Reasonable+cause


    Probable Cause[/b]

    http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/probable+cause


    Stop and Frisk[/b]

    http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Stop+and+Frisk


    Memo to: Senate Select Committee on Intelligence
    Subject: Probable Cause, Reasonable Suspicion, and Reasonableness Standards in the Context of the Fourth Amendment and the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act
    [/b][/b]
    http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/intel/m013006.pdf



    COURT CASES:[/b]


    Arizona v. Hicks, 480 U.S. 321 (1987)[/b]
    “Search” for serial numbers; “Plain View” doctrine; 4th Amendment

    http://supreme.justia.com/us/480/321/case.html



    Florida v. J. L., 529 U.S. 266 (1999)
    Anonymous Tips; Reasonable suspicion; Stop and Frisk (Terry Search); 4th Amendment

    http://supreme.justia.com/us/529/266/case.html



    Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial DIistrict Court of Nevada, Humbolt County, et al., 542 U.S. 177 (2004)
    Reasonable Suspicion; Stop and Identify statutes; Terry search; 4th Amendment

    http://supreme.justia.com/us/542/177/case.html



    Ornelas et al. v. United States, 517 U.S. 690 (1996)
    [/b]Reasonable Suspicion; Probable cause; 4th Amendment

    http://laws.findlaw.com/us/517/690.html



    Reynolds v. State of Florida, 592 So. 2d 1082 (1992)
    [/b]Reasonable Suspicion; Terry search; Consent to search; Illegal use of Handcuffs

    http://www.law.fsu.edu/library/flsupct/75832/75832.html



    Terry v. Ohio, 392 U.S. 1 (1968)
    Reasonable Suspicion, Investigatory “Stop” and “Frisk”; 4th Amendment

    http://laws.findlaw.com/us/392/1.html


    St. John v. David McColley and[/b] The Six Unknown Officers of the Alamagordo Department of Public Safety, U.S. District Court for the District of New Mexico,No. 08-994 BB/LAM (2009)
    [/b]Open Carry in Public; Search and Seizure; 4th Amendment

    http://www.nmcourt.fed.us/Drs-Web/view-file?full-path-file-name=%2Fdata%2Fdrs%2Fdm%2Fdocuments%2Fcadd%2F2009% 2F09%2F08%2F0002561429-0000000000-08cv00994.pdf


    United States of America, v. Kahli Ubiles, US Court of Appeals for the Third Circuit,224 F.3d 213 (2000)
    [/b][/b]Anonymous Tips; Reasonable Suspicion; Terry Search; 4th Amendment

    http://cases.justia.com/us-court-of-appeals/F3/224/213/576335/


    US v. King and Burdex, US Court of Appeals, Tenth Circuit, 990 F.2d 1552 (1993)
    [/b]Firearm in Vehicle; Reasonable Suspicion; Seizure; 4th Amendment

    http://cases.justia.com/us-court-of-appeals/F2/990/1552/434777/




    U.S. CODE:
    [/b]
    [/b]
    United States Code Title 42, Chapter 21, Subchapter 1, Section 1983
    [/b]Civil action for deprivation of rights

    http://law.justia.com/us/codes/title42/42usc1983.html




    ARTICLES:
    [/b]

    Does the use of handcuffs turn a temporary detention situation into an arrest?[/b]

    http://www.icje.org/id72.htm



    Reasonableness of Handcuffing during a valid “Terry Stop”
    [/b]
    http://www.patc.com/weeklyarticles/tshcuffs.shtml



    Legal Update: Terry Stop Document from A to Z
    [/b]
    http://www.halloran-sage.com/News/story.aspx?storyid=2309



    Liability and the Use of Handcuffs
    [/b]
    http://policelink.monster.com/training/articles/35314-liability-and-the-use-of-handcuffs



    Reasons to handcuff without making an arrest with court cases cited
    [/b]
    http://policelink.monster.com/training/articles/35306-reasons-to-handcuff-without-making-an-arrest-with-court-cases-cited


    Searching Suspects - An integral law enforcement function
    [/b]Terry Pat-Down versus Consent Search[/b]

    http://www.officer.com/web/online/Op...spects/3$31099
    [/b]



    COURT CASE RESEARCH WEBSITE:[/b]

    http://law.justia.com/











  23. #23
    Founder's Club Member MudCamper's Avatar
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    Thanks, A ECNALG, I'll incorporate any of this that I missed into the first 2 posts.


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