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How long can ammo be stored and how?

The Wolfhound

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To the original question,I remember shooting WWII vintage ammo in the 80s and it was fine. Our only concern was some of it still had corrosive primers.Well made, well stored ammo can last a true lifetime. Temperature and humidity are your enemies, keep them at bay and you win.
 

OC-Glock19

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Master Doug Huffman wrote:
The vacuum will quickly fail - pressurize - due, first, to volatiles expanding and the permeability of the plastic leaking air and volatiles like water. Exhaust an ammo can and keep it that way for a while and pack a silica gel-pack and you might get somewhere.

I disagree. I vacuum packed some loose ammo in foodsaver bags several years ago and it's just as airtight as the day I sealed it.

I like your idea of using silica gel dessicant though, so maybe next time I vacuum pack ammo I'll toss a dessicant bag in with it.
 

Hawkflyer

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OC-Glock19 wrote:
Master Doug Huffman wrote:
The vacuum will quickly fail - pressurize - due, first, to volatiles expanding and the permeability of the plastic leaking air and volatiles like water.  Exhaust an ammo can and keep it that way for a while and pack a silica gel-pack and you might get somewhere.

I disagree.  I vacuum packed some loose ammo in foodsaver bags several years ago and it's just as airtight as the day I sealed it. 

I like your idea of using silica gel dessicant though, so maybe next time I vacuum pack ammo I'll toss a dessicant bag in with it.

I am afraid I have to agree with Doug on this one.

Your plastic bags lasting a few years shows us nothing. I have some .30-06 ammo that was packed before WWI (Note the 06 in .30-06 stands for 1906) Plastic bags were not even a twinkle in somebody's eye when this was packed and it was packed before by FATHER was born. That stuff looks and shoots like brand new factory ammo from the local store. It was packed stripper clips, inside cardboard boxes, inside a STEEL AMMO CAN WITH A RUBBER SEAL. Heck this stuff did not even have a desiccant in the can. After over 100 years the can stills seals airtight. Try that with a plastic bag. The can also protects the ammo in a lot of other ways. Just how long do you need to store your ammo anyway?

Just buy some ammo cans, put the ammo in with some gel sacks close the lid and keep the stuff in your basement. This is not rocket science. Why do you think these steel cans are called AMMO CANS!
 

zack991

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If stored right it will last for a very long time. I use air tight cans and tuff boxes that seal all air and water out. I use uncooked dried rice in a dress sock and change them out every few months.
 

bigdaddy1

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I'm not going to be storing my ammo for hundreds of years. I like the idea of ammo cansif I can find a decent price on some. Theres a gun show in Waukesha this weekend. I will see if they have any there. Maybe I can pick up some more ammo then too!!!!:celebrate
 

since9

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I've fired 40-year-old ammo (properly stored) with the same reliability as that I bought off the shelf yesterday. The quality wasn't as good, but the manufacturing techniques back then weren't either.
 

Hawkflyer

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since9 wrote:
I've fired 40-year-old ammo (properly stored) with the same reliability as that I bought off the shelf yesterday.  The quality wasn't as good, but the manufacturing techniques back then weren't either.

"BACK THEN" .. What do you mean "Back Then"? There are a lot of people here who do not consider 1970 as being "Back Then". To some of us 1970 might be reasonably called "When" but 40 years is not ALL that long ago for many of us. :lol:

Nothing much has changed in manufacturing of ammo in the last 80-100 years that would effect storage qualities. The introduction of nitro cellulose based powders fixed a lot of problems. There have been improvements in the speed of the machinery, and developments in bullet design, a few new powders have been developed, and certainly new calibers have been introduced. But the basic elements of how ammunition components are factory assembled has not changed much since at least 1900. There have been some advances in scaling down commercial loading concepts for application by re-loaders but that is about it.

There are only two major concerns with long term storage, Stabilization of the storage environment for primers and powders and protection of the ammo from any mechanical damage or corrosion. Unless you plan on storing your ammo in an acid bath or under water, the casings and bullets themselves are relatively impervious to aging. However some older powders are sensitive to temperature over time as are some primers. In fact some of the older powders contain volatiles that may be forced into vapor under high heat conditions.

Exposure to wide ranges in temperatures, vapors of all kinds, direct contact with oil and mechanical damage from routine handling is why ammo used for carry should be swapped out from time to time. How often is a personal decision based in large part of how much you value your own life. In my case when the ballon goes up I do not want to wonder if the weapon will go bang when I pull the trigger. SO I swap out my ammo often. YMMV.

Most modern smokeless powders are not really destroyed by water. You can actually drench them, dry them out, and they will still burn. Some powders will expand when wet and this can cause changes in internal pressures if the ammo is ever fired, up to and including blowing the gun up. Some of that pressure is the result of the water itself turning to steam. The contact sensitive explosive used in primers are not as good at tolerating water. But they have the additional protection of being sealed inside their own little protective capsule under the primer anvil.

If either of flammable components comes in direct contact with oils the game is usually over. But since both of these components are more or less protected inside the cartridge, storage techniques must be designed to defend against the entry of water, oil, or vapors of any kind through the area around the bullet crimp and the primer pocket. Both of these are typically sealed only by a tight fit of the components and they can "leak".

Most ammo made under military and some LEO contracts will have a sealant applied to the primer area to prevent entry of damaging liquids and vapors, or any possible loss of volatiles from the powder. In some cases civilian ammo will also be made with sealed primers. The bullet crimp area is another matter. There are almost never any sealants applied to the bullets as that would cause wide variations in pressures between each round crippling any reasonable expectations for accuracy. In some cases lubricants used in the bullet insertion process can provide some additional protection against leaking around the bullet.

So here is the deal. Your storage system must be designed to protect the primer pocket and the bullet crimp from intrusive attack by liquids and vapors. In addition you must protect against mechanical damage (crushing, denting, direct corrosion, etc). The best way to do this is to assure that the ammo is in good condition at the start, placed in a STURDY vapor locked container with a desiccant to absorb harmful vapors inside the container. The cheapest and easiest way to get all of that in one package in the surplus military ammo can. If you want to add a plastic wrap inside the can have at it, but the storage technology of the military ammo can is time tested and proven.
 

GLOCK21GB

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Hawkflyer wrote:
since9 wrote:
I've fired 40-year-old ammo (properly stored) with the same reliability as that I bought off the shelf yesterday. The quality wasn't as good, but the manufacturing techniques back then weren't either.

"BACK THEN" .. What do you mean "Back Then"? There are a lot of people here who do not consider 1970 as being "Back Then". To some of us 1970 might be reasonably called "When" but 40 years is not ALL that long ago for many of us. :lol:

Nothing much has changed in manufacturing of ammo in the last 80-100 years that would effect storage qualities. The introduction of nitro cellulose based powders fixed a lot of problems. There have been improvements in the speed of the machinery, and developments in bullet design, a few new powders have been developed, and certainly new calibers have been introduced. But the basic elements of how ammunition components are factory assembled has not changed much since at least 1900. There have been some advances in scaling down commercial loading concepts for application by re-loaders but that is about it.

There are only two major concerns with long term storage, Stabilization of the storage environment for primers and powders and protection of the ammo from any mechanical damage or corrosion. Unless you plan on storing your ammo in an acid bath or under water, the casings and bullets themselves are relatively impervious to aging. However some older powders are sensitive to temperature over time as are some primers. In fact some of the older powders contain volatiles that may be forced into vapor under high heat conditions.

Exposure to wide ranges in temperatures, vapors of all kinds, direct contact with oil and mechanical damage from routine handling is why ammo used for carry should be swapped out from time to time. How often is a personal decision based in large part of how much you value your own life. In my case when the ballon goes up I do not want to wonder if the weapon will go bang when I pull the trigger. SO I swap out my ammo often. YMMV.

Most modern smokeless powders are not really destroyed by water. You can actually drench them, dry them out, and they will still burn. Some powders will expand when wet and this can cause changes in internal pressures if the ammo is ever fired, up to and including blowing the gun up. Some of that pressure is the result of the water itself turning to steam. The contact sensitive explosive used in primers are not as good at tolerating water. But they have the additional protection of being sealed inside their own little protective capsule under the primer anvil.

If either of flammable components comes in direct contact with oils the game is usually over. But since both of these components are more or less protected inside the cartridge, storage techniques must be designed to defend against the entry of water, oil, or vapors of any kind through the area around the bullet crimp and the primer pocket. Both of these are typically sealed only by a tight fit of the components and they can "leak".

Most ammo made under military and some LEO contracts will have a sealant applied to the primer area to prevent entry of damaging liquids and vapors, or any possible loss of volatiles from the powder. In some cases civilian ammo will also be made with sealed primers. The bullet crimp area is another matter. There are almost never any sealants applied to the bullets as that would cause wide variations in pressures between each round crippling any reasonable expectations for accuracy. In some cases lubricants used in the bullet insertion process can provide some additional protection against leaking around the bullet.

So here is the deal. Your storage system must be designed to protect the primer pocket and the bullet crimp from intrusive attack by liquids and vapors. In addition you must protect against mechanical damage (crushing, denting, direct corrosion, etc). The best way to do this is to assure that the ammo is in good condition at the start, placed in a STURDY vapor locked container with a desiccant to absorb harmful vapors inside the container. The cheapest and easiest way to get all of that in one package in the surplus military ammo can. If you want to add a plastic wrap inside the can have at it, but the storage technology of the military ammo can is time tested and proven.
+ 1 , This...Good Info. & ( Back then ) I am 40 ! But your only as old as you feel :lol: I feel pretty good.
 

Ian

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Shawn wrote:
Glock34 wrote:
Ammo will last a long time. just store it correctly. Inside of 30 cal - 50 cal - 20 mm ammo cans , with those bags of desicent, absorbs any moisture in the can. I have 20 K rounds in the basement. , more coming soon ( another 6 k ):) Buy it cheap & stack it deep.
+1 Another poster stated he changes his carry ammo every 30 days....I can only say that I've carried the same ammo for 8 years (duty ammo). We also tested some ammo that was over 20 years old and it all went off. This stuff wasn't stored in any ammo can, so if you do as Glock34 says....that stuff will be around for sometime.

Also, my duty mags, stayed loaded, unless at the range. Make sure you seat the bullet correctly (all the way back) and use factory mags and you should not have any problems. Google it and S&W has an article on it I believe.
I don't even unload my carry mags for the range. I just have an extra mag that is solely for range use.
 

Hawkflyer

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Ian wrote:
...SNIP
I don't even unload my carry mags for the range. I just have an extra mag that is solely for range use.
How much dust and dirt do allow to accumulate between cleanings of your magazines? Usually holster queens are even dirtier than daily shooters.

Every so often you should strip down and clean the inside of the mags, check the spring, and clean the follower. You would be amazed how much lint gets in there.
 

Slayer of Paper

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Sonora Rebel wrote:
Store in a cool, dry place with little temperature change. Best in steel military ammo boxes (check for the rubber seals) and a dessicant bag or dry rice. Best if kept in the original boxes, strippersor packets sealed.When properly stored... most small arms ammo willremain effective longer than you will.
I do believe Rebel has it surrounded.

One thing I would add though: carry ammo. It makes sense (to me, at least) to be much more paranoid when dealing with things that you trust your life to. Unless I just didn't have any other, and couldn't get it, I would prefer to have fairly new ammo always loaded in my carry gun. Sure, it's highly unlikely you'll have any failures with ammo that's been stored properly for years, but why take any chances on something you are depending on to save your life? You should be shooting your carry ammo often enough to need periodic replacement, anyway.
 

altajava

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I am also a believer in the surplus ammo can but not all have desiccant in them. As far a magazines go...when I take one of my firearms to the range I bring all the mags I have for the gun(s) I am using that day and will load and use each mag at least once. If you've ever dropped a mag on a hard surface you've got to make sure the feed lips aren't bent. I also numbered all my mags in case I get a miss feed/no feed, I can narrow down the problem a lot easier.
 

bigdaddy1

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I picked up 2 .50 cal boxes, I knew I should have bought more.

I guess I will try some surplus shops to see if I can find some more.
 

A ECNALG

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Hawkflyer wrote:
Exposure to wide ranges in temperatures . . .and mechanical damage

I read some years back that the powder of ammunition that has been stored in a motor vehicle for an extended period of time, owing to mechanical vibration, can fragment and abrade. This fine particulate, when detonated by the primer, can burn far more rapidly than normal, even explosively.

Well, at least that is what was written in American Rifleman, as I recall.
 

GLOCK21GB

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A ECNALG wrote:
Hawkflyer wrote:
Exposure to wide ranges in temperatures . . .and mechanical damage

I read some years back that the powder of ammunition that has been stored in a motor vehicle for an extended period of time, owing to mechanical vibration, can fragment and abrade. This fine particulate, when detonated by the primer, can burn far more rapidly than normal, even explosively.

Well, at least that is what was written in American Rifleman, as I recall.
Anything is possible.
 

since9

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zack991 wrote:
If stored right it will last for a very long time. I use air tight cans and tuff boxes that seal all air and water out. I use uncooked dried rice in a dress sock and change them out every few months.
I just live in Colorado - it's usually pretty dry around here!

Actually, I do keep my ammo in an ammo can. You can buy 'em at any surplus store, many pawn shops, and most gun stores.
 

since9

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A ECNALG wrote:
Hawkflyer wrote:
Exposure to wide ranges in temperatures . . .and mechanical damage

I read some years back that the powder of ammunition that has been stored in a motor vehicle for an extended period of time, owing to mechanical vibration, can fragment and abrade. This fine particulate, when detonated by the primer, can burn far more rapidly than normal, even explosively.

Well, at least that is what was written in American Rifleman, as I recall.
Does that mean we should shoot our carry ammo every once in a while and replace it with new ammo? Lot's of rattling going on when I carry, at least on this old frame!
 

Hawkflyer

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since9 wrote:
A ECNALG wrote:
Hawkflyer wrote:
Exposure to wide ranges in temperatures . . . and mechanical damage

I read some years back that the powder of ammunition that has been stored in a motor vehicle for an extended period of time, owing to mechanical vibration, can fragment and abrade.  This fine particulate, when detonated by the primer, can burn far more rapidly than normal, even explosively.

Well, at least that is what was written in American Rifleman, as I recall.
Does that mean we should shoot our carry ammo every once in a while and replace it with new ammo?  Lot's of rattling going on when I carry, at least on this old frame!

Well maybe not for this specific reason, but YES you should occasionally shoot your carry ammo.

As to the powder question above. This is at least possible. I do not know what source the NRA used in determining this, but powders come in a variety of granule and flake sizes. This is in large part to control the burn rates. -

250px-Powder_Samples.jpg


It is more than just possible that bouncing around inside the casing could cause the powder to break down into a fine dust. That dust would burn much faster causing an over pressure in the chamber. Rifle powder would be most susceptible.
 

Michigander

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bigdaddy1 wrote:
What about vacuum packing the ammo? Moisture litterally boils out in a vacuum. They have those food storage machines that are relativly cheap.
I know from my HVAC experience that it takes a lot of vacuuming to actually get water to boil out. 500 microns for half an hour is what I've always tried to do with a cooling system being recharged, so as to make sure the water is all out of it. The odds of being able to actually do that with ammo are low for most of us, and even if we could, it would take an absurd amount of effort. So again, that is why I suggest silica gel cat litter. It's the cheapest source of a good dessicant.
 
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