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Carrying multiple handguns in Tennessee

macville

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kwikrnu wrote:





[align=justify]39-17-1314. Local regulation of firearms and ammunition preempted by state regulation — Actions against firearms or ammunition manufacturers, trade associations or dealers. —[/align]


a) Except as provided in § 39-17-1311(d), which allows counties and municipalities to prohibit the possession of handguns while within or on a public park, natural area, historic park, nature trail, campground, forest, greenway, waterway or other similar public place that is owned or operated by a county, a municipality or instrumentality thereof, no city, county, or metropolitan government shall occupy any part of the field of regulation of the transfer, ownership, possession or transportation of firearms, ammunition or components of firearms or combinations thereof; provided, that this section shall be prospective only and shall not affect the validity of any ordinance or resolution lawfully enacted before April 8, 1986.
The problem is that 1311 is ONLY for parks and things like parks (greenways, etc.) Any city code still on the books against carry period is illegal. The ONLY law that is not automatically override by state law is the parks carry law IF it was in place by 1986 (like the city of Knoxville.) Therefore, it's legal to carry in ANY city/county in TN if you have an HCP. Now carrying in local parks is another story.

Matthew
 

kwikrnu

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macville wrote:
kwikrnu wrote:
bohdi wrote:
You should if you are trying to normalize that type of carry.
It is against city ordinance to carry a loaded handgun in the city where I live. Even with a handgun carry permit.
You are talking about Nashville? Shows me the code that was put in place before 1986.

Matthew

Brentwood Tennessee.



Nashville has an exception for those with handgun carry permits.
 

kwikrnu

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macville wrote:
kwikrnu wrote:






[align=justify]39-17-1314. Local regulation of firearms and ammunition preempted by state regulation — Actions against firearms or ammunition manufacturers, trade associations or dealers. —[/align]


a) Except as provided in § 39-17-1311(d), which allows counties and municipalities to prohibit the possession of handguns while within or on a public park, natural area, historic park, nature trail, campground, forest, greenway, waterway or other similar public place that is owned or operated by a county, a municipality or instrumentality thereof, no city, county, or metropolitan government shall occupy any part of the field of regulation of the transfer, ownership, possession or transportation of firearms, ammunition or components of firearms or combinations thereof; provided, that this section shall be prospective only and shall not affect the validity of any ordinance or resolution lawfully enacted before April 8, 1986.
The problem is that 1311 is ONLY for parks and things like parks (greenways, etc.) Any city code still on the books against carry period is illegal. The ONLY law that is not automatically override by state law is the parks carry law IF it was in place by 1986 (like the city of Knoxville.) Therefore, it's legal to carry in ANY city/county in TN if you have an HCP. Now carrying in local parks is another story.

Matthew

According to you? 39-17-1314 clearly states that no city can regulate except as provided for in 39-17-1311 and SHALL NOT AFFECT THE VALIDITY OF ANY ORDINANCE OR RESOLUTION LAWFULLY ENACTED BEFORE APRIL 8, 1986.

The legislature just rewrote 39-17-1314 and did not change the end wording. What does the last wording mean if you do not agree with me?

 

suntzu

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SpringerXDacp wrote:
kwikrnu wrote:
bohdi wrote:
You should if you are trying to normalize that type of carry.
It is against city ordinance to carry a loaded handgun in the city where I live. Even with a handgun carry permit.
You've got to be kidding right???? You're saying in the State of Tennessee, a HCP holder is not exempt from the otherwise prohibited areas (cities), even if they CC. :banghead:
Was the city law passed prior to 1986? If they have been passed after preemption was enacted--then they are illegal under state law.
 

macville

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According to you? 39-17-1314 clearly states that no city can regulate except as provided for in 39-17-1311 and SHALL NOT AFFECT THE VALIDITY OF ANY ORDINANCE OR RESOLUTION LAWFULLY ENACTED BEFORE APRIL 8, 1986.

The legislature just rewrote 39-17-1314 and did not change the end wording. What does the last wording mean if you do not agree with me?

Except, the laws you posted talked about the intent to go armed and the HCP is a DEFENSE to that crime. So while they may have been passed before 1986 (kinda doubtful) I fully believe that the defense to going armed trumps their law because of the wording they used.

Have you asked the police in those cities if it's illegal to carry even with an HCP?

Matthew
 

kwikrnu

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macville wrote:
According to you? 39-17-1314 clearly states that no city can regulate except as provided for in 39-17-1311 and SHALL NOT AFFECT THE VALIDITY OF ANY ORDINANCE OR RESOLUTION LAWFULLY ENACTED BEFORE APRIL 8, 1986.

The legislature just rewrote 39-17-1314 and did not change the end wording. What does the last wording mean if you do not agree with me?

Except, the laws you posted talked about the intent to go armed and the HCP is a DEFENSE to that crime. So while they may have been passed before 1986 (kinda doubtful) I fully believe that the defense to going armed trumps their law because of the wording they used.

Have you asked the police in those cities if it's illegal to carry even with an HCP?

Matthew

The police do not know the laws.

The Tennessee handgun carry permit is a defense to carrying a loaded handgunfor the purposes of State law.Let's say you have a carry permit and you carry a loaded handgun in Al Gore's home town of Belle Meade. The cops decide to enforce the city ordinanceprohibiting carry with the intent to go armed. Since the ordinance was written well before 1986 they are within their right as a city to enforce their ordinance. They can't charge you with a violation of a State law because you didn't break a State law.

I haven't found what a violation of a city ordinance costs yet.

[align=left]6-21-502. Power to enforce ordinances
.--(a) The city judge has the[/align]
[align=left]power and authority to:[/align]
[align=left](1) Impose fines, costs, and forfeitures, and punish by fine for violation[/align]
[align=left]of city ordinances;[/align]
[align=left](2) Preserve and enforce order in such city judge's court;[/align]
[align=left](3) Enforce the collection of all such fines, costs, and forfeitures[/align]
[align=left]imposed by such city judge; and[/align]
[align=left](4) In default of the payment, of good and sufficient security given for[/align]
[align=left]the payment of any such fines, costs, or forfeitures imposed by such city judge,[/align]
[align=left]the city judge has the power, and it is such city judge's duty, to commit the[/align]
[align=left]offender to the workhouse or other place provided for such purpose, and to such[/align]
[align=left]labor as may be provided by ordinance until such fines, costs or forfeitures are[/align]
[align=left]fully paid, at the rate set in § 40-24-104; provided that no such imprisonment[/align]
[align=left]shall exceed the period of time established for a Class C misdemeanor for any[/align]
[align=left]one (1) offense; and that fines may be paid in installments in such manner as[/align]
[align=left]may be provided by ordinance.[/align]
[align=left](b) The city judge may remit, with or without condition, fines and costs[/align]
[align=left]imposed for violation of any ordinance or charter provision. [Acts 1921, ch. 173,[/align]
[align=left]art. 9, § 2; Shan. Supp., § 1997a165; Code 1932, § 3562; Acts 1965, ch. 330, § 2;[/align]
T.C.A. (orig. ed.), § 6-2120; Acts 1989, ch. 175, § 15; Acts 1995, ch. 13, § 12.]
 

kwikrnu

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bohdi wrote:
Sounds like you folks in TN need preemption style state law....

It isn't going to happen anytime soon. We just had a ton of gun bills passed last year.

guns in bars

guns in parks

rifles in cars

But, they rewrote 39-17-1314and kept in the "before 1986 provision."

Tennessee isn't as gun friendly as people think, IMO.
 

bohdi

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Just because the state gained some decent ground last year, doesn't meanthe citizensshouldn't keep pushing. Either you are satisfied or you are not.
 

kwikrnu

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bohdi wrote:
Just because the state gained some decent ground last year, doesn't meanthe citizensshouldn't keep pushing. Either you are satisfied or you are not.


Just stating that most of our law makers are idiots.

They had the restaurant and guns bill declared unconstitutional, because it had so many parts that could be confusing to the average person.

They rewrote 39-17-1311 and said that state parks can leave up signs prohibiting handgun carry, but allow handgun carry at the same time.

They rewrote 39-17-1311 which states city SHALL put up signs notifying people that carrying a gun is illegal, but in the same bill it says they don't have to put up signs if they pass a resolution saying they don't have to put up signs. It is a crime to carry a handgun in a park where it is illegal to carry and not posted.

I'm not even sure why they are letting cities decide to allow carriers in parks or not.

You have 39-17-1314 which lets cities with laws older than 1986 call the shots on their own gun regulations. I don't even think that is constitutional because they can only regulate with a view to prevent crime.

They pass a rifles in cars bill that lets anyone carry a loaded rifle in a car, as long as the rifle doesn't have a round in the chamber.

These people can't write a clean bill if their life depended on it.
 

Task Force 16

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kwikrnu wrote:
bohdi wrote:
Just because the state gained some decent ground last year, doesn't meanthe citizensshouldn't keep pushing. Either you are satisfied or you are not.


Just stating that most of our law makers are idiots.

They had the restaurant and guns bill declared unconstitutional, because it had so many parts that could be confusing to the average person. I consider myself an "average person" and I didn't find the language of the law vague. That was a liberal judge thatdeclared that the public was too dumb to understand the law.

They rewrote 39-17-1311 and said that state parks can leave up signs prohibiting handgun carry, but allow handgun carry at the same time.

They rewrote 39-17-1311 which states city SHALL put up signs notifying people that carrying a gun is illegal, but in the same bill it says they don't have to put up signs if they pass a resolution saying they don't have to put up signs. It is a crime to carry a handgun in a park where it is illegal to carry and not posted.

I'm not even sure why they are letting cities decide to allow carriers in parks or not.

You have 39-17-1314 which lets cities with laws older than 1986 call the shots on their own gun regulations. I don't even think that is constitutional because they can only regulate with a view to prevent crime. This is why it is important to be attentive and vote in local elections, try to put people in office that will repeal the old restrictions.

They pass a rifles in cars bill that lets anyone carry a loaded rifle in a car, as long as the rifle doesn't have a round in the chamber. Not everyone. I believe this was an exception for HCP holders.

These people can't write a clean bill if their life depended on it. Yeah, they can. It's just that not everyone will interpret the laws the same way.
 

suntzu

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macville wrote:
According to you? 39-17-1314 clearly states that no city can regulate except as provided for in 39-17-1311 and SHALL NOT AFFECT THE VALIDITY OF ANY ORDINANCE OR RESOLUTION LAWFULLY ENACTED BEFORE APRIL 8, 1986.

The legislature just rewrote 39-17-1314 and did not change the end wording. What does the last wording mean if you do not agree with me?



Have you asked the police in those cities if it's illegal to carry even with an HCP?

Matthew
Why ask the police anything--they don't have a clue what the law is anyway--that is why they like to make things up as they go along.
 

kwikrnu

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Task Force 16 wrote:
I consider myself an "average person" and I didn't find the language of the law vague. That was a liberal judge thatdeclared that the public was too dumb to understand the law.

I could read and understand the law. But why did they have to put the part in there about servingone meal a day five days a week on a regularbasis? How were people supposed to know this before entering a restaurant? People from out of State visit all the time how are they supposed to know these details. It's the same with the before 1986 laws, how are people supposed to know local laws w/o doing research? The laws need to be simple to understand and follow. The restaurant law wasn't. Many gun laws are not easy to understand. The whole thing IMO needs to be looked and at and written over.
 

Task Force 16

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You have to realize something here. It wasn't potential customers that challenged the new exception. It was a few restaurateurs in Nashville that got their panties in a wad over it.

They were fine with the prohibition of firearms in their establishments as long as the State was making that decision. The customers couldn't get pissed at the restaurant owners and possibly retaliate by not patronizing their businesses.

The new exception placed the responsibility of decision making on the restaurateurs, thereby opening them up to reprisal from the customers that hold HCP's. :what:OOOOHHH NNOOOO can't have that!

This wasn't about a law being TOO vague. It was about business owners not wanting to be held responsible for making a decision that some of their customers might not agree with. All of their arguments against the exceptionwere bogus.They got lucky and drew a anti-gunjudge that sided with them, citing "vagueness."

Do you find it unexceptable to do a little "research" to determine if an establishment meets the definition of a "restaurant that serves alcohol"? It's allot less difficult than it is to research firearm laws, ya know.
 

kwikrnu

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You shouldn't have to do any "research". The laws should be unambiguous. The whole system of carrying guns in Tennessee needs to be reworked. Ever since the KKK got their hands on the laws in the 1870's this State has been messed up.
 

Task Force 16

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kwikrnu wrote:
You shouldn't have to do any "research". The laws should be unambiguous. The whole system of carrying guns in Tennessee needs to be reworked. Ever since the KKK got their hands on the laws in the 1870's this State has been messed up.
The only way to have "unambiguous" laws would be to not have any at all. Why do you think we have lawyers? Even they have to do research of the laws.
 

XD.45

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I've been carrying 2 pistols for awhile 1OC 1 CC without any issues other then some people think Im crazy
 

2BEARMS

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But you are unemployed and there fore have plenty of time on your hands.
 
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