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Lawful Purpose = No open carry??

Venator

Venator

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SpringerXDacp wrote:
Venator wrote:
SNIP[font="Arial, Helvetica"]
That word includes means a partial list of possible lawful activities, it does not list them all. In Traverse City a LEO cited someone saying they transported unlawfully. The judge looked at the law and dismissed it.


But just to be sure a bill is being worked on that removes these examples entirely and just says all lawful purposes. I expect it to pass as the intent was to allow all lawful purposes anyway, this will just clear it up.
Click to expand...



Brian, do you have a cite to this? The only proposed amendment to 231a that I can find is SB 793 which adds: "directly or indirectly" to the Subdivisions (i)-->(vii).

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/documents/2009-2010/billintroduced/Senate/pdf/2009-SIB-0793.pdf

Edit: Added proposed
Click to expand...

This is all behind the scenes. But below is the substituted wording for Bill 5303. Nothing moving on it yet.
 
SpringerXDacp

SpringerXDacp

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Venator wrote:
SNIP[font="Arial, Helvetica"]
This is all behind the scenes. But below is the substituted wording for Bill 5303. Nothing moving on it yet.
Click to expand...


So, by eliminating (2)(b), your left with:

[align=left](d) To a person while transporting a pistol for a lawful purpose that is licensed by the owner or occupant of the motor vehicle in compliance with section 2 of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.422, and the pistol is unloaded in a closed case designed for the storage of firearms in the trunk of the vehicle.[/align]
[align=left]Hence: All lawful purposes. Perfect.[/align]
 
SpringerXDacp

SpringerXDacp

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stainless1911 wrote:
mikestilly wrote:
That's much easier said then done. Most laws specially gun laws are vague and misleading.
Click to expand...
Intensionnaly I'm sure. :quirky

Great info guys. Printed it and its in the car.
Click to expand...
Stainless, the info on this page is HB 5303, it's not law yet if that's what you meant by "Great info."
 
H

Haman J.T.

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kyleplusitunes wrote:
it is written in law, the second amendment of the constitiution
Click to expand...
Also in MI, Article 1 Sec. 6 of the MI constitution states perfectly," Every person has the right to keep and BEAR arms for the defense of HIMSELF and the state ". Notice how HIMSELF comes before the state! Perfect!
 
Thundar

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stainless1911 wrote:
What do you think? Until I get my CPL re activated, I still want to OC, but I really dont want to get screwed up with this beforehand, and I dont want to be unarmed.

.........................................................................................................................................

[font="Arial, Helvetica"]
Click to expand...
Is long gun open carry legal in Michigan?
 
Venator

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Thundar wrote:
stainless1911 wrote:
What do you think? Until I get my CPL re activated, I still want to OC, but I really dont want to get screwed up with this beforehand, and I dont want to be unarmed.

.........................................................................................................................................

[font="Arial, Helvetica"]
Click to expand...
Is long gun open carry legal in Michigan?
Click to expand...

We are unaware of any law that prohibits it. Discharge and hunting are covered and have certain restrictions.
 
Venator

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stainless1911 wrote:
off topic.

What are the laws that regulate where I can legaly fire a weapon outside? ie. x,xxx feet from building/road/whatever. public land private etc.
Click to expand...
Most municipalities have discharge ordinances.

The only other discharging law I know about is while hunting. You can NOThunt/shoot within 450 feet of any occupied building (including livestock...Barns) without permission. This does not apply to target shooting.
 
G

ghostrider

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stainless1911 wrote:
I think we could as OCers run into problems with this one. How can we legally OC, even at a picnic until these laws are removed/clarified? When I spoke to my attorney about this, she advised me to be very careful about OC while mt CPL is suspended, because there is no (case law?) regarding this. No court has said if these restrictions are the only way to transport, or if it is an exsample of acceptable reasons.

According to this law, going to the range (for instance) is more important than protecting your life. There is no provision given for OC, or self defense, or making a political statement.

What do you think? Until I get my CPL re activated, I still want to OC, but I really dont want to get screwed up with this beforehand, and I dont want to be unarmed.

.........................................................................................................................................

http://www.michigan.gov/msp/0,1607,7-123-1586_27094-10953--,00.html
Click to expand...
[font="Arial, Helvetica"]First, I won't cover the comments on the law since It's been done.

Now,

Did you ever ask you lawyer about WWR? How will a LEO know how you are/have transported(ing) your gun unless he see's you in the process of putting it in or taking it out, or if you tell him?

Yes, it is a risk. Any officer or prosecutor can seize upon that "list" and try to say that it's exclusive, rather than inclusive, but does it really matter? Think about it. You are without your CPL because you have been charged with violations of carrying a concealed pistol when you weren't even carrying a concealed pistol. You of all people should realize by now that, "just because you are operating (conscientiously) within the law, doesn't mean that they won't maliciously prosecute you in spite of the law." They could just as easily charge you for carrying in a (non-alcoholic) restaurant with a CPL. Bent cops, and bent prosecutors are going to be bent regardless of what the law says.

It's good to consider the legal risks when making such a decision. Especially in your situation.
[/font]
 
stainless1911

stainless1911

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ghostrider wrote:
stainless1911 wrote:
I think we could as OCers run into problems with this one. How can we legally OC, even at a picnic until these laws are removed/clarified? When I spoke to my attorney about this, she advised me to be very careful about OC while mt CPL is suspended, because there is no (case law?) regarding this. No court has said if these restrictions are the only way to transport, or if it is an exsample of acceptable reasons.

According to this law, going to the range (for instance) is more important than protecting your life. There is no provision given for OC, or self defense, or making a political statement.

What do you think? Until I get my CPL re activated, I still want to OC, but I really dont want to get screwed up with this beforehand, and I dont want to be unarmed.

.........................................................................................................................................

http://www.michigan.gov/msp/0,1607,7-123-1586_27094-10953--,00.html
Click to expand...
[font="Arial, Helvetica"]First, I won't cover the comments on the law since It's been done.

Now,

Did you ever ask you lawyer about WWR? How will a LEO know how you are/have transported(ing) your gun unless he see's you in the process of putting it in or taking it out, or if you tell him?

Yes, it is a risk. Any officer or prosecutor can seize upon that "list" and try to say that it's exclusive, rather than inclusive, but does it really matter? Think about it. You are without your CPL because you have been charged with violations of carrying a concealed pistol when you weren't even carrying a concealed pistol. You of all people should realize by now that, "just because you are operating (conscientiously) within the law, doesn't mean that they won't maliciously prosecute you in spite of the law." They could just as easily charge you for carrying in a (non-alcoholic) restaurant with a CPL. Bent cops, and bent prosecutors are going to be bent regardless of what the law says.

It's good to consider the legal risks when making such a decision. Especially in your situation.
[/font]
Click to expand...

WWR?

Yes, he/she could see me locking orunlocking the weapon, or could plainly see my thigh holster during a traffic stop, or could be responding to a MWAG 911 call.

I know all to well that a LEO or prosecutor will nit pick, and do their best to prove themselves right. In doing so, they are destroying the foundations of the system they swear tro uphold.

The reason why I brought this list of lawful purposes up with the attorney, and here at MOC, is because I almost expect to be attacked in such a way, and don't want to be blindsided by something like this. I also want to help others who may be in such a situation. The input of those who have helped me both publicly, and privately is invaluable to me, and I am so grateful. I am confident that I can beat this thing, I am certain that I could not have done this alone.

BTW, My pretrial has been adjourned to Jan 25. I cant talk much about it, as big brother could be watching.:shock:
 
lil_freak_66

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Venator wrote:
stainless1911 wrote:
off topic.

What are the laws that regulate where I can legaly fire a weapon outside? ie. x,xxx feet from building/road/whatever. public land private etc.
Click to expand...
Most municipalities have discharge ordinances.

The only other discharging law I know about is while hunting. You can NOThunt/shoot within 450 feet of any occupied building (including livestock...Barns) without permission. This does not apply to target shooting.
Click to expand...


Safety zones are all areas within 150 yards (450 feet) of an occupied building, house, cabin, or any barn or other building used in a farm operation. No person, including archery and crossbow hunters, may hunt or discharge a firearm, crossbow or bow in a safety zone, or shoot at any wild animal or wild bird within a safety zone, without the written permission of the owner or occupant of such safety zone. The safety zone applies to hunting only. It does not apply to indoor or outdoor shooting ranges, target shooting, law enforcement activities or the discharge of firearms, crossbows or bows for any non-hunting purpose.



i remember reading awhile back about a right of way for shooting near roads.

something as to you can be within the safety zone on a road for hunting,so long as you are shooting away from said road,and are not on said road,or the areas maintained on the side of road.

will provide a cite if i can find it.
 
G

ghostrider

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stainless1911 wrote:
[font="Arial, Helvetica"]....[/font]
[font="Arial, Helvetica"]
[/font]
Click to expand...

WWR?

Yes, he/she could see me locking orunlocking the weapon, or could plainly see my thigh holster during a traffic stop, or could be responding to a MWAG 911 call.

I know all to well that a LEO or prosecutor will nit pick, and do their best to prove themselves right. In doing so, they are destroying the foundations of the system they swear tro uphold.

The reason why I brought this list of lawful purposes up with the attorney, and here at MOC, is because I almost expect to be attacked in such a way, and don't want to be blindsided by something like this. I also want to help others who may be in such a situation. The input of those who have helped me both publicly, and privately is invaluable to me, and I am so grateful. I am confident that I can beat this thing, I am certain that I could not have done this alone.

BTW, My pretrial has been adjourned to Jan 25. I cant talk much about it, as big brother could be watching.:shock:
Click to expand...
WWR=

http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum30/17262.html

Learn it, live it. At the very least you should have a voice recorder (or two or three) and have it running whenever you leave the house. That way you won't have to turn it on if something happens.

Also, since you didn't know what WWR meant I have to ask. Have you read this one also?

http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum30/13328.html

If not, it might be a good idea.

Glad you got a handle on things, and that your being well advised.

Good luck, and Keep us posted.
 
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