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Thread: Discuss the Kalamazoo long gun OC event HERE!

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    office888 wrote:
    Taurus850CIA wrote:
    Sonora Rebel wrote:
    As a defensive firearm in close quarters¬*an AK clone's¬*not worth squat.¬* It has no utility for that purpose unless ya want to mount a bayonet 'n go for it. ¬*As a political 'statement'... it drives the anti's nuts and instills fear in the rest of the sheep who wouldn't know a '92 Winchester from a '50 Chevrolet and don't care.¬* Perception is everything... even if it's the wrong perception of the message being sent.¬* AK's are scary lookin' to Joe 'n Jane Sixpack... 'don't matter the 'intent'.¬* They don't care either.¬* Like that goof in TN wanderin' around in a park wearin'¬*cammo with a slung Draco with an orange painted muzzle break.¬* WTF?¬* Wild eyed 'Activists' are a PITA for the rest of us.¬* What you do there affects me down here.¬* The 'gun-nut' lable is applied nationally with a broad brush by the media.¬*¬* I have these weapons 'cause I'm within' sight of Mexico... 'n whatever's comin' this direction from there.¬* Many of us out here in the open range desert¬*do.¬*¬*
    As far as defensive use, you know better than I do. For the rest of that, we're showing that it's just not true. Most folks here don't care one way or the other. The overwhelming majority of people really don't think much of it either way. The problem is the extremely loud minority of the frightened unenlightened. Folks who didn't grow up around guns, and only know what media tells them.

    The guy in the park: I admit, it's creepy, but nothing came of it, IIRC.

    If I were there, I'd have them, too. On the other hand, I'm HERE, and I have them. Gun laws of Arizona are looked upon here as a lofty goal to reach. I don't know about the rest of us, but I envy the freedoms you take for granted there. The bottom line is, carrying an AK as a pistol is legal here, regardless of the practicality or level of acceptance. The folks who have the balls to carry this thing in public are among the folks who have been most influential in making some of the sweeping changes we've had here. For that, I'm thankful, and glad to have been part of the movement.
    AGREED.

    From the beginning though, Sonora Rebel does have a point.¬* The only reason California has the "unloaded unlicensed open-carry" requirement, is because Black Panthers stormed city hall with loaded M1 carbines in the late 60s, so that law quickly went on the books.

    Although with what Kwiknru did in Tennessee is a bit over the top from what I personally would do, nothing he did broke the law.¬* No one was injured.¬* He was peaceful about it.¬* About the only thing he did that I will disagree with is his orange-painted Draco tip.¬* Other than that, there's no law against walking around in MARPAT BDUs carrying a Draco pistol.

    ...although the fashion police might want to have a word with you.¬*

    I however, will stick to dressing nicely, and openly-carrying.

    Coming soon a Kalamazoo near you : a suited young man with an openly-carried 16" AR15 rifle.

    I think I'll need to find a bowtie to wear...

    -Richard-
    "You'll be walking along.. OC.. and you'll feel GREAT. You'll feel FREEEEE like 1776 kind of Free." -cscitney87

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    Michigander wrote:
    Sonora Rebel wrote:
    It has no utility for that purpose unless ya want to mount a bayonet 'n go for it. ¬*As a political 'statement'... it drives the anti's nuts and instills fear in the rest of the sheep who wouldn't know a '92 Winchester from a '50 Chevrolet and don't care.¬* Perception is everything... even if it's the wrong perception of the message being sent.

    snip

    I have these weapons 'cause I'm within' sight of Mexico... 'n whatever's comin' this direction from there.¬* Many of us out here in the open range desert¬*do.¬*¬*
    I don't think it's fair to pass judgement without knowing some key facts.

    First, I know of only 2 people in 2 places who carried AK's in Michigan as a political statement. Kimberguy in Jackson, and Evil Creamsicle in Canton. Both of these situations were about responding to serious and illegal police abuse. No one panicked, no one got upset, but people were educated, and the police were probably reminded what there place is.

    This is something that most here would never normally do, and it has only very rarely been done in a very calculated, very careful manner.

    Also, I know you've been around a lot, so I'd expect you'd know the northern border isn't any less precarious than the southern one. If you doubt this, all you'd need to do is look up a phone number for a coast guard base along the Detroit river. Ask them how many criminals they deal with.
    "You'll be walking along.. OC.. and you'll feel GREAT. You'll feel FREEEEE like 1776 kind of Free." -cscitney87

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    Kimberguy wrote:
    office888 wrote:
    Coming soon a Kalamazoo near you : a suited young man with an openly-carried 16" AR15 rifle.

    I think I'll need to find a bowtie to wear...

    -Richard-

    I can get you a nice bowtie.... you let me know! and I'll carry my AR right along with you!!! we can take a nice walk down W Main.
    "You'll be walking along.. OC.. and you'll feel GREAT. You'll feel FREEEEE like 1776 kind of Free." -cscitney87

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    office888 wrote:
    Kimberguy wrote:
    office888 wrote:
    Coming soon a Kalamazoo near you : a suited young man with an openly-carried 16" AR15 rifle.

    I think I'll need to find a bowtie to wear...

    -Richard-

    I can get you a nice bowtie.... you let me know! and I'll carry my AR right along with you!!! we can take a nice walk down W Main.
    Heck yeah!

    I'm down for it this summer.¬*

    We'll get something planned together.



    -Richard-
    "You'll be walking along.. OC.. and you'll feel GREAT. You'll feel FREEEEE like 1776 kind of Free." -cscitney87

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    Evil Creamsicle wrote:
    Michigander wrote:
    Sonora Rebel wrote:
    It has no utility for that purpose unless ya want to mount a bayonet 'n go for it. ¬*As a political 'statement'... it drives the anti's nuts and instills fear in the rest of the sheep who wouldn't know a '92 Winchester from a '50 Chevrolet and don't care.¬* Perception is everything... even if it's the wrong perception of the message being sent.

    snip

    I have these weapons 'cause I'm within' sight of Mexico... 'n whatever's comin' this direction from there.¬* Many of us out here in the open range desert¬*do.¬*¬*
    I don't think it's fair to pass judgement without knowing some key facts.

    First, I know of only 2 people in 2 places who carried AK's in Michigan as a political statement. Kimberguy in Jackson, and Evil Creamsicle in Canton. Both of these situations were about responding to serious and illegal police abuse. No one panicked, no one got upset, but people were educated, and the police were probably reminded what there place is.

    This is something that most here would never normally do, and it has only very rarely been done in a very calculated, very careful manner.

    Also, I know you've been around a lot, so I'd expect you'd know the northern border isn't any less precarious than the southern one. If you doubt this, all you'd need to do is look up a phone number for a coast guard base along the Detroit river. Ask them how many criminals they deal with.
    ...in fact in Canton we were about 100 feet from a kids soccer game... and about 1500 feet behind the Canton PD, and still there was no widespread panic or rioting. It was a nice peaceful picnic.
    I'd be willing to bet it was the safest kids soccer game that has ever happened in SE Michigan.
    "You'll be walking along.. OC.. and you'll feel GREAT. You'll feel FREEEEE like 1776 kind of Free." -cscitney87

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    Kimberguy wrote:
    office888 wrote:
    Kimberguy wrote:
    office888 wrote:
    Coming soon a Kalamazoo near you : a suited young man with an openly-carried 16" AR15 rifle.

    I think I'll need to find a bowtie to wear...

    -Richard-

    I can get you a nice bowtie.... you let me know! and I'll carry my AR right along with you!!! we can take a nice walk down W Main.
    Heck yeah!

    I'm down for it this summer.¬*

    We'll get something planned together.



    -Richard-
    PM me some time, and we can plan it.
    "You'll be walking along.. OC.. and you'll feel GREAT. You'll feel FREEEEE like 1776 kind of Free." -cscitney87

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    Radioman wrote:
    Kimberguy wrote:
    office888 wrote:
    Kimberguy wrote:
    office888 wrote
    Coming soon a Kalamazoo near you : a suited young man with an openly-carried 16" AR15 rifle.

    I think I'll need to find a bowtie to wear...

    -Richard-

    I can get you a nice bowtie.... you let me know! and I'll carry my AR right along with you!!! we can take a nice walk down W Main.
    Heck yeah!

    I'm down for it this summer.¬*

    We'll get something planned together.



    -Richard-
    PM me some time, and we can plan it.
    Not sure about the whole Bowtie thing.¬* That might be getting a little too radical for Sonora Rebel.¬* But If you guys would welcome a regular tie I might be able to swing over that way and join you guys.¬* Add me to the PM list if you guys don't mind company with either a pistol/rifle or a rifle.¬* Have to see how the day is feeling and which project is completed.

    Radioman
    "You'll be walking along.. OC.. and you'll feel GREAT. You'll feel FREEEEE like 1776 kind of Free." -cscitney87

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    Evil Creamsicle wrote:
    Radioman, if I'm available perhaps I could carpool with you.
    "You'll be walking along.. OC.. and you'll feel GREAT. You'll feel FREEEEE like 1776 kind of Free." -cscitney87

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    Radioman wrote:
    Sure thing Evil.¬* Once the date is set we can work out arrangements for anyone heading that way.¬* I should be able to take two or three extra folks.¬*

    Just no Bow Ties.¬*:what: Thats just Ultra Radical Behavior according to Sonora Rebel.¬*

    Radioman
    "You'll be walking along.. OC.. and you'll feel GREAT. You'll feel FREEEEE like 1776 kind of Free." -cscitney87

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    EM87 wrote:
    Ooh, a local event! Count me in! I'd like to OC with you all too, but I don't know about a rifle. My AK isn't an underfolder. I'm pretty sure we've agreed that the OC of a rifle is legal with certain hunting permits, but I'd hate to go to jail for overlooking or misreading a certain law. I'll definitely OC my pistol though.

    Keep me in the loop on what's going on!
    "You'll be walking along.. OC.. and you'll feel GREAT. You'll feel FREEEEE like 1776 kind of Free." -cscitney87

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    Evil Creamsicle wrote:
    ...only one thing I was thinking about. I don't remember Kalamazoo giving us any trouble specifically... is there anyone close to that area who has?
    "You'll be walking along.. OC.. and you'll feel GREAT. You'll feel FREEEEE like 1776 kind of Free." -cscitney87

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    office888 wrote:
    Evil Creamsicle wrote:
    ...only one thing I was thinking about. I don't remember Kalamazoo giving us any trouble specifically... is there anyone close to that area who has?
    Good point.¬* Maybe Jackson instead?

    -Richard-
    "You'll be walking along.. OC.. and you'll feel GREAT. You'll feel FREEEEE like 1776 kind of Free." -cscitney87

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    Evil Creamsicle wrote:
    I think that would perhaps be a better idea... not because I don't enjoy the idea but because, politically speaking, it might be best not to make an example out of a department that has not done the same of us. Somewhere like Jackson or Warren might be a better use of time.
    "You'll be walking along.. OC.. and you'll feel GREAT. You'll feel FREEEEE like 1776 kind of Free." -cscitney87

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    Radioman wrote:
    What about hitting both.¬* Take a walk around KZoo before and after lunch.¬* And then the folks heading back East can if they want meet again in the Jackson area and walk around before dinner or something of the sort.¬* Visit two cities in one trip.

    Any thoughts on an idea like this?¬* Or have the Bow Tie Duo shunned the Common Tie Crowd?¬*

    Radioman
    "You'll be walking along.. OC.. and you'll feel GREAT. You'll feel FREEEEE like 1776 kind of Free." -cscitney87

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    Kimberguy wrote:
    Radioman wrote:
    Any thoughts on an idea like this?¬* Or have the Bow Tie Duo shunned the Common Tie Crowd?¬*

    Radioman
    LMFAO!!!!¬*¬* I shun nobody!!!
    "You'll be walking along.. OC.. and you'll feel GREAT. You'll feel FREEEEE like 1776 kind of Free." -cscitney87

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    Radioman wrote:
    Then I bow to the leader of the Bow Tie Duo.¬*

    Just poking some fun at you Kimberguy ... And I had a thought ... the 2A March is sometime in April in Lansing ... that might be another time to have a little gathering of the Bow Tie Duo and Common Tie Crowd.

    Radioman
    "You'll be walking along.. OC.. and you'll feel GREAT. You'll feel FREEEEE like 1776 kind of Free." -cscitney87

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    bossbart wrote:
    So if¬*I bought a Draco¬*thats classified as a pistol¬*I could register it as a pistol in Mi. and what form would u use
    "You'll be walking along.. OC.. and you'll feel GREAT. You'll feel FREEEEE like 1776 kind of Free." -cscitney87

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    CV67PAT wrote:
    bossbart wrote:
    So if¬*I bought a Draco¬*thats classified as a pistol¬*I could register it as a pistol in Mi. and what form would u use

    ¬*
    The Draco actually is a pistol, not merely a "Michigan pistol", and must be purchased and registered via a Pistol Purchase Permit (from the police) or form RI-060 (for CPL holders).
    "You'll be walking along.. OC.. and you'll feel GREAT. You'll feel FREEEEE like 1776 kind of Free." -cscitney87

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    PDinDetroit wrote:
    For Christmas, I got an ATI Six-Position Folding Stock for one of my Ruger 10/22's.¬* The barrel is 18" and overall length is 26.5".¬* It is registered as a Pistol here in MI.
    "You'll be walking along.. OC.. and you'll feel GREAT. You'll feel FREEEEE like 1776 kind of Free." -cscitney87

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    CV67PAT wrote:
    SIG556 Folder

    "You'll be walking along.. OC.. and you'll feel GREAT. You'll feel FREEEEE like 1776 kind of Free." -cscitney87

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    Evil Creamsicle wrote:
    I would recommend anyone planning to do this make some kind of leg holster rig... since a 'pistol in a holster' cannot possibly be considered brandishing.
    "You'll be walking along.. OC.. and you'll feel GREAT. You'll feel FREEEEE like 1776 kind of Free." -cscitney87

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    mikestilly wrote:
    Evil Creamsicle wrote:
    I would recommend anyone planning to do this make some kind of leg holster rig... since a 'pistol in a holster' cannot possibly be considered brandishing.
    If you read the AG opinion it doesnt state it must be in a holster. Neither does it say a non-holstered pistol is brandishing. Its very specific ie to wave menicingly etc. Im at work and cant paste the opinion from my cell.. Nothin wrong with a sling, or belt sling. Thought I would say its bad to walk around with your hands on the grips and pointing it at things which could be seen as brandishing.

    Mike
    "You'll be walking along.. OC.. and you'll feel GREAT. You'll feel FREEEEE like 1776 kind of Free." -cscitney87

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    Evil Creamsicle wrote:
    thats true... I guess I just like the ease of being able to tell police that 'legally its exactly what you're doing'...
    "You'll be walking along.. OC.. and you'll feel GREAT. You'll feel FREEEEE like 1776 kind of Free." -cscitney87

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    mikestilly wrote:
    Id say you'd be safe within the definition unless you're waving it around like a person with anger management issues
    "You'll be walking along.. OC.. and you'll feel GREAT. You'll feel FREEEEE like 1776 kind of Free." -cscitney87

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    Michigander wrote:
    mikestilly wrote:
    Id say you'd be safe within the definition unless you're waving it around like a person with anger management issues
    the term brandishing is defined as: "1. To wave or flourish menacingly, as a weapon. 2. To display ostentatiously. A menacing or defiant wave or flourish." This definition comports with the meaning ascribed to this term by courts of other jurisdictions…the court recognized that in federal sentencing guidelines, "brandishing" a weapon is defined to mean "that the weapon was pointed or waved about, or displayed in a threatening manner." Applying these definitions to your question, it is clear that a reserve police officer, regardless whether he or she qualifies as a "peace officer," when carrying a handgun in a holster in plain view, is not waving or displaying the firearm in a threatening manner.
    You are right, and it's something I never thought about much. This opinion defines brandishing, THEN goes on to clarify an example of what isn't brandishing. I suppose it doesn't require a holster like in the example any more than it requires someone to be a cop to open carry.

    However, I still think it is more in line with the opinion if in a holster, and I think it would be a lot harder to convict someone of a brandishing charge if a holster is used. It's hard to wave something around if it's securely strapped to your leg or perhaps shoulder.

    So I'm not saying don't do it, it is after all a free ish country, but I still think a holster is the best option.
    "You'll be walking along.. OC.. and you'll feel GREAT. You'll feel FREEEEE like 1776 kind of Free." -cscitney87

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