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Intent to go armed in Tennessee

Task Force 16

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Lobelville, Tennessee, USA
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Iwrote, "This means they may not change their ordinance to prohibit the carry of an army or navy pistol openly in the hand."
I know this! I'm not disputing this!

I'm saying that the City of Belle Meade CAN amend the current ordinance to include an exception or defense of violation of the prohibition of carrying a handgun (any handgun) for persons with valid HCP's.

By doing so, the city WOULD NOT be in violation of state preemption because the amendment would be a lessor regulation of firearms.

The City could also amend the part about carrying a black powder Navy/Army pistol to require that the pistols be holstered, rather thancarried "in hand." I don't think that would violate state preemption. If there was a question concerning a violation, municipalities can seek approval from the state, if need be.

But none of this meansanything unless citizens of Belle Meade petition the city council for the amendments.

It's clear you're not interested in doing things this way. No! you'd rather got to town and create a commotion.
 

kwikrnu

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Brentwood, Tennessee
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Manner of carry is not specified in Tennessee code. You may carry a handgun in your hand, a holster, on a sling, scabbard, case, box, balanced on your head, etc. unless a city ordinance says you can't and the the ordinance was prior to April 8, 1986. "No city, county, or metropolitan government shall occupy any part of the field of regulation of the transfer, ownership, possession or transportation of firearms, ammunition or components of firearms or combinations thereof;"

Unless the State says you can't carry a handgun in your hand Belle Meade's new law would be in violation of TCA 39-17-1314.
 

Task Force 16

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kwikrnu wrote:
Manner of carry is not specified in Tennessee code. You may carry a handgun in your hand, a holster, on a sling, scabbard, case, box, balanced on your head, etc. unless a city ordinance says you can't and the the ordinance was prior to April 8, 1986. "No city, county, or metropolitan government shall occupy any part of the field of regulation of the transfer, ownership, possession or transportation of firearms, ammunition or components of firearms or combinations thereof;"

Unless the State says you can't carry a handgun in your hand Belle Meade's new law would be in violation of TCA 39-17-1314.

OK, let's forget about the carry mode business.

Why are you against petitioning the City of Belle Meade to add an exception to their prohibition of "carrying a firearm with intent to go armed" to apply to HCP holders? That way, HCP holders would be able to carry ANY handgun without being in violation ofthe prohibition ordinance.

The City of Belle Meade CAN change their ordinacne in this way without violating State preemption.
 

kwikrnu

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Brentwood, Tennessee
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Task Force 16 wrote:
kwikrnu wrote:
Manner of carry is not specified in Tennessee code. You may carry a handgun in your hand, a holster, on a sling, scabbard, case, box, balanced on your head, etc. unless a city ordinance says you can't and the the ordinance was prior to April 8, 1986. "No city, county, or metropolitan government shall occupy any part of the field of regulation of the transfer, ownership, possession or transportation of firearms, ammunition or components of firearms or combinations thereof;"

Unless the State says you can't carry a handgun in your hand Belle Meade's new law would be in violation of TCA 39-17-1314.

OK, let's forget about the carry mode business.

Why are you against petitioning the City of Belle Meade to add an exception to their prohibition of "carrying a firearm with intent to go armed" to apply to HCP holders? That way, HCP holders would be able to carry ANY handgun without being in violation ofthe prohibition ordinance.

The City of Belle Meade CAN change their ordinacne in this way without violating State preemption.

You're right Belle Meade can change their law to allow the carry of firearms, but I sincerely doubt they will with a letter writing campaign.The city has 3000 people andper capita income is #1 in Tennessee and #27 in the US. The city is full of doctors, lawyers and old money. These people can careless what I think. The city is powerless to stop me from open carrying an army ornavy revolver in my hand so that is what I will do. If the attention makes them decide to change their laws then so be it. If not, I'll keep carrying an army or navy pistol in my hand.
 

Task Force 16

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kwikrnu wrote:
Task Force 16 wrote:
kwikrnu wrote:
Manner of carry is not specified in Tennessee code. You may carry a handgun in your hand, a holster, on a sling, scabbard, case, box, balanced on your head, etc. unless a city ordinance says you can't and the the ordinance was prior to April 8, 1986. "No city, county, or metropolitan government shall occupy any part of the field of regulation of the transfer, ownership, possession or transportation of firearms, ammunition or components of firearms or combinations thereof;"

Unless the State says you can't carry a handgun in your hand Belle Meade's new law would be in violation of TCA 39-17-1314.

OK, let's forget about the carry mode business.

Why are you against petitioning the City of Belle Meade to add an exception to their prohibition of "carrying a firearm with intent to go armed" to apply to HCP holders? That way, HCP holders would be able to carry ANY handgun without being in violation ofthe prohibition ordinance.

The City of Belle Meade CAN change their ordinacne in this way without violating State preemption.

You're right Belle Meade can change their law to allow the carry of firearms, but I sincerely doubt they will with a letter writing campaign.The city has 3000 people andper capita income is #1 in Tennessee and #27 in the US. The city is full of doctors, lawyers and old money. These people can careless what I think. The city is powerless to stop me from open carrying an army ornavy revolver in my hand so that is what I will do. If the attention makes them decide to change their laws then so be it. If not, I'll keep carrying an army or navy pistol in my hand.

And you think those doctors, lawyers, and old money folks don't have HCP's?

That's just a lame excuse not to try the petition route.

I wash my hands of you.
 

Sonora Rebel

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That's brandishing... and I really wouldn't care if some cop or citizen ventilated you 'cause you are more than asking for it. I suppose they have laws on the books against being a Public Nuisance, as you more than qualify. I anyone approached me in a park or otherwise remote area... or anywhere really... with a drawn pistol in hand... I'm not going to ask what that's all about. You'll be looking down the barrel of a .45. 'You so much a flinch wrong and I'd light you up with a mag dump inna heartbeat. You will drop that weapon tho... 'cause anything... and I mean 'anything'else 'n you're had. 'That what you're lookin' for?

You're prob'ly the mostabsolutely insane person ever to post on OCDO.
 

kwikrnu

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Sonora Rebel wrote:
That's brandishing... and I really wouldn't care if some cop or citizen ventilated you 'cause you are more than asking for it. I suppose they have laws on the books against being a Public Nuisance, as you more than qualify. I anyone approached me in a park or otherwise remote area... or anywhere really... with a drawn pistol in hand... I'm not going to ask what that's all about. You'll be looking down the barrel of a .45. 'You so much a flinch wrong and I'd light you up with a mag dump inna heartbeat. You will drop that weapon tho... 'cause anything... and I mean 'anything'else 'n you're had. 'That what you're lookin' for?

You're prob'ly the mostabsolutely insane person ever to post on OCDO.

Actually, it is not brandishing. It is the only legal method of carry in Belle Meade TN. It specifically states what may be carried and how it may be carried. Have you read any Tennessee court decisions on these laws? I'll list a few:

1. Barton v state (sorry don'y have a link)

2. Robinson v State

3. Kendall v State

4. Page v State

5. State v Wilburn

6. Andrews v state
 

kwikrnu

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Task Force 16 wrote:
Don't you think you should find out about the date of the current law before you do something that might go terribly wrong for you?


I just double checked with the City Attorney and recorder for the City of Brentwood TN. They changed the law on March 22, 1993. As I had suspected they removed the portion that allowed the carry of the army or navy pistol in hand.





When were the words “except the army or navy pistol which shall be carried openly in the hand” removed from the Brentwood city ordinance? [/b]

[/b]

[/b]

Brentwood[/b]

[/b]

Sec. 42-161. Weapons and firearms generally.[/b]

(a)It shall be unlawful for any person to carry in any manner whatever, with the intent to go armed, any razor, dirk knife, blackjack, brass knucks, pistol, revolver or any other dangerous weapon or instrument. However, the prohibitions herein shall not apply to members of the United States armed forces carrying such weapons as are prescribed by applicable regulations, nor to any officer or police officer engaged in his official duties, in the execution of process, or while searching for or engaged in arresting persons suspected of having committed crimes. Furthermore, the prohibitions herein shall not apply to persons who may have been summoned by such officer or police officer to assist in the discharge of his duties, nor to any conductor of any passenger or freight train of any railroad while he is on duty.

(Code 1978, § 10-213; Ord. No. 93-07, §§ 1, 2, 3-22-93; Ord. No. 2005-11, § 1--3, 10-24-2005)

Debbie Hedgepath
City Recorder
(615) 371-0060



Belle Meade[/b]

11-602. Weapons and firearms generally.

It shall be unlawful for any person to carry in any manner whatever, with the intent to go armed, any razor, dirk, knife, blackjack, brass knucks, pistol, revolver, or any other dangerous weapon or instrument except the army or navy pistol which shall be carried openly in the hand. However, the foregoing prohibition shall not apply to members of the United States Armed Forces carrying such weapons as are prescribed by applicable regulations nor to any officer or policeman engaged in his official duties, in the execution of process, or while searching for or engaged in arresting persons suspected of having committed crimes. Furthermore, the prohibition shall not apply to persons who may have been summoned by such officer or policeman to assist in the discharge of his said duties.

(Ord. 71-6,§ 2.12. 1987 Code, § 10-212)



Linda Berner

City Recorder
297-6041
lberner@citybellemeade.org





CODE COMPARATIVE TABLE ORDINANCES

This table gives the location within this Code of those ordinances adopted since the 1978 Code, as updated through March 11, 1991, which are included herein. Ordinances adopted prior to such date were incorporated into the 1978 Code, as supplemented. Ordinances adopted since March 11, 1991, and not listed herein, have been omitted as repealed, superseded or not of a general and permanent nature.

TABLE INSET:








Ordinance
Number


Date


Section


Section
this Code



2005-11


10-24-2005


1


42-161(c)









2


42-161(d)









3 Rnbd


42-161(f)









as


42-161(g)









Added


42-161(f)









4 Added


14-221



93-07


3-22-93


1, 2


42-161






CODE COMPARATIVE TABLE 1978 CODE

This table gives the location within this Code of those sections of the 1978 Code, as updated through March 11, 1991, which are included herein. Sections of the 1978 Code, as supplemented, not listed herein have been omitted as repealed, superseded, obsolete or not of a general and permanent nature. For the location of ordinances adopted subsequent thereto, see the table immediately following this table.

TABLE INSET:








1978 Code
Section


Section this Code



10-213


42-161













39-17-1314. Local regulation of firearms and ammunition preempted by state regulation — Actions against firearms or ammunition manufacturers, trade associations or dealers. —







39-17-1311(d), which allows counties and municipalities to prohibit the possession of handguns while within or on a public park, natural area, historic park, nature trail, campground, forest, greenway, waterway or other similar public place that is owned or operated by a county, a municipality or instrumentality thereof, no city, county, or metropolitan government shall occupy any part of the field of regulation of the transfer, ownership, possession or transportation of firearms, ammunition or components of firearms or combinations thereof; provided, that this section shall be prospective only and shall not affect the validity of any ordinance or resolution lawfully enacted before April 8, 1986.









This is the ordinance which changed the law in March 22, 1993.



brentwoodordinaceedited.jpg
 

kwikrnu

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Here is another TN supreme court case which shows that the Brentwood law is unconstitutional. The State may not ban all weapons even if the ban was prior to 1986. There has to be some provision allowing the carry of weapons. This is why in 1870 the State law was declared unconstitutional which banned all pistols and the reason why they rewrote the law in 1871 allowing the army navy pistol.

Glasscock v. City of Chattanooga, 11 S.W.2d 678 (Tenn. 1928)

"In 1928, the Supreme Court of Tennessee revisited the scope of the state "right to keep and bear arms" in the context of a municipal ordinance prohibiting the carrying of a pistol. In Glasscock v. City of Chattanooga, 11 S.W.2d 678 (Tenn. 1928), the court, relying on Andrews, concluded that the ordinance amounted to a complete prohibition on the constitutional right, given that the ordinance prohibited the carrying of any pistol. Id. The court rejected Chattanooga's argument that the ordinance merely charged a violation of the same activity that was prohibited under a state statute, noting that the court had previously held that the exception for possession of an "Army or Navy pistol carried openly in the hand" must be read into the state statute to sustain its constitutionality, and therefore an indictment under the state law was invalid unless it charged that the pistol carried was not such a weapon. Id. at 679, citing Wehnut v. State, 136 Tenn. 223 (Tenn. 1916)."

taken from here





Basically what I am pointing out with this case is that Brentwood is the new Chattanooga.



 
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