Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 39

Thread: HB 885: Possession of concealed weapons

  1. #1
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    7,705

    Post imported post

    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...?101+sum+HB885

    Full Text

    Possession of concealed weapons. Creates a new exemption to the general prohibition against carrying concealed weapons by allowing a person who may lawfully possess a firearm to carry a handgun in a private motor vehicle or boat if the handgun is secured in a container or compartment.


    Adds this to Section B, the general list of exemptions:

    10. Any person who may lawfully possess a firearm and is carrying a handgun while in a personal, private motor vehicle or vessel and such handgun is secured in a container or compartment in the vehicle or vessel.

  2. #2
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    7,705

    Post imported post

    The "urban area" folks will pull their hair out over this one...

    TFred


  3. #3
    Activist Member nuc65's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Lynchburg, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    1,121

    Post imported post

    In New Mexico a motor vehicle is considered an extension of your home (legally). Carry in your vehicle how you like. It stops 'officer safety' searches without true probable cause, at least in my understanding.
    When I carry a gun, I don't do so because I am looking for a fight, but because I'm looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I cannot be forced, only persuaded. I don't carry it because I'm afraid, but because it enables me to be unafraid. It doesn't limit the actions of those who would interact with me through reason, only the actions of those who would do so by force.

    excerpt By Marko Kloos (http://munchkinwrangler.wordpress.com/?s=major+caudill)

  4. #4
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    7,705

    Post imported post

    Similar bill:

    SB 408: Possession of concealed weapons in vehicles

    Full Text

    Possession of concealed weapons in vehicles.Creates a new exemption to the general prohibition against carrying concealed weapons by allowing a person who may lawfully possess a firearm to carry a handgun in a private motor vehicle or vessel if the handgun is locked in a container or compartment.

  5. #5
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    13,580

    Post imported post

    I see no advantage and it smacks of bad things to come.

    What good is a locked handgun in the car...none!
    You can already carry openly, or lock it in the trunk or in the glove box or console when you get out.

    If this law morphs into the only legal way to carry in the future, it's a major step back.

    So far, I'm seeing a very few bills that benefit gun rights and a lot that furthers elite permit holder status (Not this bill, it's just useless :X).

  6. #6
    Regular Member simmonsjoe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Mattaponi, Virginia, United States
    Posts
    1,664

    Post imported post

    This bill is a start, and it doesn't say locked like the other one.. It says secured. (I read that to mean latched)
    illegal ≠ immoral legal ≠ moral
    [SIZE=1]"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself. "Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent." - Thomas Jefferson
    G19 Gen 4; Bersa Thunder 380; Sig Sauer P238; Kel-Tec su-16c

  7. #7
    Regular Member 45acpForMe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Yorktown, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    2,803

    Post imported post

    nuc65 wrote:
    In New Mexico a motor vehicle is considered an extension of your home (legally). Carry in your vehicle how you like. It stops 'officer safety' searches without true probable cause, at least in my understanding.
    I see this bill as a step forward to the average joe that has his gun in the glove box.

    I would like to see a bill like the above New Mexico law where your car is an extension of your home. Since in VA you have a right to be "there" and don't have to retreat from your car just like your home it seems to make sense.

    Also if you have your gun on the passenger seat and a hard turn or braking moves it you shouldn't be charged with concealing it. The NM mode would solve something like this.

  8. #8
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Richmond/VA Beach, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    89

    Post imported post

    To me it does read as if the only legal way to carry would be in a "locked container or compartment". If this could be stated as one option of "concealed carry" for any carrier, regardless of CHP or not, it would be ok.

  9. #9
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    13,580

    Post imported post

    45acpForMe wrote:
    nuc65 wrote:
    In New Mexico a motor vehicle is considered an extension of your home (legally). Carry in your vehicle how you like. It stops 'officer safety' searches without true probable cause, at least in my understanding.
    I see this bill as a step forward to the average joe that has his gun in the glove box.

    I would like to see a bill like the above New Mexico law where your car is an extension of your home. Since in VA you have a right to be "there" and don't have to retreat from your car just like your home it seems to make sense.

    Also if you have your gun on the passenger seat and a hard turn or braking moves it you shouldn't be charged with concealing it. The NM mode would solve something like this.
    locked in a container or compartment.



  10. #10
    Regular Member 45acpForMe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Yorktown, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    2,803

    Post imported post

    TFred wrote:
    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...?101+sum+HB885

    Full Text

    Possession of concealed weapons. Creates a new exemption to the general prohibition against carrying concealed weapons by allowing a person who may lawfully possess a firearm to carry a handgun in a private motor vehicle or boat if the handgun is secured in a container or compartment.


    Adds this to Section B, the general list of exemptions:

    10. Any person who may lawfully possess a firearm and is carrying a handgun while in a personal, private motor vehicle or vessel and such handgun is secured in a container or compartment in the vehicle or vessel.
    It says secured not a "locked" container. This is important since neither a ford explorer center console or glovebox have locks. I think most cars these days don't have lockable gloveboxes. I still prefer something like NM law where the car is an extension of your home, do as you like.

    To me if it is in a locked container it is not easily accessible and therefore not concealed, it is stored. :-)

  11. #11
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    13,580

    Post imported post

    45acpForMe wrote:
    TFred wrote:
    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...?101+sum+HB885

    Full Text

    Possession of concealed weapons. Creates a new exemption to the general prohibition against carrying concealed weapons by allowing a person who may lawfully possess a firearm to carry a handgun in a private motor vehicle or boat if the handgun is secured in a container or compartment.


    Adds this to Section B, the general list of exemptions:

    10. Any person who may lawfully possess a firearm and is carrying a handgun while in a personal, private motor vehicle or vessel and such handgun is secured in a container or compartment in the vehicle or vessel.
    It says secured not a "locked" container. This is important since neither a ford explorer center console or glovebox have locks. I think most cars these days don't have lockable gloveboxes. I still prefer something like NM law where the car is an extension of your home, do as you like.

    To me if it is in a locked container it is not easily accessible and therefore not concealed, it is stored. :-)
    So it does. I wonder if that was changed.
    Now, I wonder how many people will get locked up, while the Judges try to decide what secured means.

  12. #12
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    7,705

    Post imported post

    Remember we're talking about two bills in this thread, they were so close I thought it would be OK to just add to the original...

    One says locked, one says secured.

    Trying not to clutter up the Virginia forum too much!

    TFred


  13. #13
    Regular Member paramedic70002's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Franklin, VA, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    1,448

    Post imported post

    What we need is either:

    1. Make CC legal without a permit; or

    2. Specifically state in legislation 'plain language' that possession of a firearm in a vehicle glovebox or container DOES NOT CONSTITUTE immediate access to the firearm and DOES NOT violate 18.2-308.

    How the courts ever reasoned that leaning over, opening the box, and retrieving the handgun was not an 'overt movement' I do not understand.
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!

  14. #14
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Louisa County, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    821

    Post imported post

    So who/what got something like this on the radar screen?

    Why the licensing exemption for a boat...Somali pirates? :shock:

  15. #15
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    7,705

    Post imported post

    From the VCDL VA-ALERT just sent out:
    The House and Senate both just adopted Governor McDonnell's change to HB 885, so that starting July 1 a non-CHP holder can have a loaded handgun in an UNLOCKED compartment or container in a private motor vehicle or vessel!!!

    Three Senators - Marsden, Saslaw, and Marsh - spoke against the change, wanting to require the compartment or container be locked, while Senator Vogel spoke in favor of the change.

    The vote was 20 to 19 in the Senate, a squeaker, but we won!

    Also, the Governor's changes to HB 1217, which makes only NRA gun safety curriculum something that elementary schools can use to teach gun safety, passed by a large margin.

    Those emails you sent last week were critical! Good work, VCDL!!!
    Also, from the LIS page on HB 885:

    YEAS--Blevins, Deeds, Edwards, Hanger, Houck, Hurt, Martin, McDougle, McWaters, Norment, Obenshain, Puckett, Reynolds, Ruff, Smith, Stosch, Stuart, Vogel, Wagner, Wampler--20.

    NAYS--Barker, Colgan, Herring, Howell, Locke, Lucas, Marsden, Marsh, McEachin, Miller, J.C., Miller, Y.B., Northam, Petersen, Puller, Quayle, Saslaw, Ticer, Watkins, Whipple--19.

    RULE 36--0.

    NOT VOTING--Newman--1.

  16. #16
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Myrtle Beach, SC
    Posts
    970

    Post imported post

    TFred wrote:
    From the VCDL VA-ALERT just sent out:
    The House and Senate both just adopted Governor McDonnell's change to HB 885, so that starting July 1 a non-CHP holder can have a loaded handgun in an UNLOCKED compartment or container in a private motor vehicle or vessel!!!

    Three Senators - Marsden, Saslaw, and Marsh - spoke against the change, wanting to require the compartment or container be locked, while Senator Vogel spoke in favor of the change.

    The vote was 20 to 19 in the Senate, a squeaker, but we won!

    Also, the Governor's changes to HB 1217, which makes only NRA gun safety curriculum something that elementary schools can use to teach gun safety, passed by a large margin.

    Those emails you sent last week were critical!* Good work, VCDL!!!
    Also, from the LIS page on HB 885:

    YEAS--Blevins, Deeds, Edwards, Hanger, Houck, Hurt, Martin, McDougle, McWaters, Norment, Obenshain, Puckett, Reynolds, Ruff, Smith, Stosch, Stuart, Vogel, Wagner, Wampler--20.

    NAYS--Barker, Colgan, Herring, Howell, Locke, Lucas, Marsden, Marsh, McEachin, Miller, J.C., Miller, Y.B., Northam, Petersen, Puller, Quayle, Saslaw, Ticer, Watkins, Whipple--19.

    RULE 36--0.

    NOT VOTING--Newman--1.
    If this was Facebook, I would LIKE that.

    I turn 20 in an hour and ten minutes. Only 1 more year to go until I can apply for my CHP!

  17. #17
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Shenandoah Valley, Virginia
    Posts
    3,806

    Post imported post

    Happy birthday. :P
    Why open carry? Because 1911 > 911.

  18. #18
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Lynchburg, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    2,201

    Post imported post

    I note that Newman did not vote on this particular change. Steve Newman is my local senator and is generally a reliable vote for good firearm legislation. Anyone know what the story is on him?

  19. #19
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Myrtle Beach, SC
    Posts
    970

    Post imported post

    AbNo wrote:
    Happy birthday. :P
    Thanks.

  20. #20
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    13,580

    Post imported post

    Now....we have to decide at least two things.

    1. What does secured mean?

    2. Does this apply to all vessels or just motor powered vessels?

    in a private motor vehicle or vessel

    I can thin of a few more pitfalls too:X

    No. 99-1712-CR
    STATE OF WISCONSIN IN COURT OF APPEALS
    DISTRICT III
    State of Wisconsin,
    Plaintiff-Appellant,

    ¶7. The meaning of § 29.99(11), Stats., is plain on its face. The first portion of the section unambiguously establishes four ways in which a person may violate the law while hunting deer. The sentence structure is a classic example of a list of items in a series separated by commas. "For hunting deer" is the corresponding phrase to each separate item in the series. 2 The final item in the series, "with the aid of an aircraft," is not separated by a comma because it is preceded by the coordinating conjunction "or," an accepted practice in English usage. See The Little, Brown Handbook 376 (7th ed. 1998).

  21. #21
    Regular Member 2a4all's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Newport News, VA, ,
    Posts
    1,585

    Post imported post

    peter nap wrote:
    Now....we have to decide at least two things.

    1. What does secured mean?

    2. Does this apply to all vessels or just motor powered vessels?

    in a private motor vehicle or vessel

    I can thin of a few more pitfalls too:X

    No. 99-1712-CR
    STATE OF WISCONSIN IN COURT OF APPEALS
    DISTRICT III
    State of Wisconsin,
    Plaintiff-Appellant,

    ¶7. The meaning of § 29.99(11), Stats., is plain on its face. The first portion of the section unambiguously establishes four ways in which a person may violate the law while hunting deer. The sentence structure is a classic example of a list of items in a series separated by commas. "For hunting deer" is the corresponding phrase to each separate item in the series. 2 The final item in the series, "with the aid of an aircraft," is not separated by a comma because it is preceded by the coordinating conjunction "or," an accepted practice in English usage. See The Little, Brown Handbook 376 (7th ed. 1998).
    Defining "secured" will be tricky, but how does onesecure a firearm "in a private motor vehicle or vessel" when the motor vehicle is a motorcycle?
    A law-abiding citizen should be able to carry his personal protection firearm anywhere that an armed criminal might go.

    Member VCDL, NRA

  22. #22
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    13,580

    Post imported post

    2a4all wrote:
    peter nap wrote:
    Now....we have to decide at least two things.

    1. What does secured mean?

    2. Does this apply to all vessels or just motor powered vessels?

    in a private motor vehicle or vessel

    I can thin of a few more pitfalls too:X

    No. 99-1712-CR
    STATE OF WISCONSIN IN COURT OF APPEALS
    DISTRICT III
    State of Wisconsin,
    Plaintiff-Appellant,

    ¶7. The meaning of § 29.99(11), Stats., is plain on its face. The first portion of the section unambiguously establishes four ways in which a person may violate the law while hunting deer. The sentence structure is a classic example of a list of items in a series separated by commas. "For hunting deer" is the corresponding phrase to each separate item in the series. 2 The final item in the series, "with the aid of an aircraft," is not separated by a comma because it is preceded by the coordinating conjunction "or," an accepted practice in English usage. See The Little, Brown Handbook 376 (7th ed. 1998).
    Defining "secured" will be tricky, but how does onesecure a firearm "in a private motor vehicle or vessel" when the motor vehicle is a motorcycle?
    Yep...and it looks like bicycles are out, I'm not sure about the Whizzer since it's classified as a motorized bicycle.

    It shouldn't be an issue but there are a lot of cops that spent most of their school years with a jock tied on their head while being stuffed in their locker.

  23. #23
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    US
    Posts
    3,156

    Post imported post

    hunter45 wrote:
    AbNo wrote:
    Happy birthday. :P
    Thanks.
    Happy late birthday!

  24. #24
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Myrtle Beach, SC
    Posts
    970

    Post imported post

    nova wrote:
    hunter45 wrote:
    AbNo wrote:
    Happy birthday. :P
    Thanks.
    Happy late birthday!
    Thanks. You're not late at late all, today is my birthday...and it is also Earth Day. Happy Earth Day!

  25. #25
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    13,580

    Post imported post

    hunter45 wrote:
    nova wrote:
    hunter45 wrote:
    AbNo wrote:
    Happy birthday. :P
    Thanks.
    Happy late birthday!
    Thanks. You're not late at late all, today is my birthday...and it is also Earth Day. Happy Earth Day!
    In that case,

    HAPPY BIRTHDAY



Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •