"Tony's 7" Manassas PD officer and Virginia Arms Co.

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TFred wrote:

nova wrote:

ProShooter wrote:

What is Tony's 7 ?

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http://www.vcdl.org/Tonys/mcpd.html

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Have there been any developments past the last posted on that page?

TFred

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Yes. Philip and VCDL did go back after the Chief's letter/formal report to protest.A few less people, but still packed the hall. Quite a few spoke. It may even be on YouTube. I think one of the executive members taped it.

City Council never did anything about it. I have this vague recollection the Mayor may have verbally commented or written that he accepted the Chief's letter/report.

Latera VCDL'er spoke ata public hearing aboutthe police department (the hearing wasabout the police department), re-opening the wound for the Chief by publicly callingon him to explain the obvious inconsistenciesin hisletter/report.

After that, the matter was dropped as far as I know.

But, the biggest development is the one that never happened: since then not one single OCer has been harassed by Manassas PD. Not one report of OCer harassment has surfaced. So, even though "it never happened", the police know what went down, especially the command structure, and I am quite sure the word went out that whatever didn't happen had better not happen again.

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Well, it's hard not to agree with my assessment.

G&AW is simply a cool shop. Good staff, which isn't a given with gun shops. The name is just icing on the cake.

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Citizen wrote:

But, the biggest development is the one that never happened: since then not one single OCer has been harassed by Manassas PD. Not one report of OCer harassment has surfaced. So, even though "it never happened", the police know what went down, especially the command structure, and I am quite sure the word went out that whatever didn't happen had better not happen again.

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Thanks, that sounds like a successful outcome.

TFred

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Of course, while they may have been told not to do it again, the lesson never really sunk in, which is why there are so many Manassas and PW cops spreading horseshit about what happened that night. One of them was a member of this forum whose very first post was an accusation of lying leveled against the Tony's 7, and he wasn't even there.

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Tomahawk wrote:

Of course, while they may have been told not to do it again, the lesson never really sunk in, which is why there are so many Manassas and PW cops spreading horse@#$% about what happened that night. One of them was a member of this forum whose very first post was an accusation of lying leveled against the Tony's 7, and he wasn't even there.

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Well, yes. I never really figured they would turn into rights loving, libertarian, Locke-ians. But, I'll take a smack-down that keeps them in line for a while. I am absolutely certain that they never dreamed they were screwing with a bunch of guys who knew the law, knew how to use the FOIA statute, and had lots of friends in VCDL. The surprise and frantic scramble for damage control must have been hilarious.

All one really has to do is print out the Chief's letter and ask the naysayers to explain all the discrepancies. One that really comes back to mind is the nonsense about the demand for ID really being just a request to see if the OCers were fellow LEOs.

Yeah, right. Cops just walk up to each other, out of uniform, and the first thing they ask is to see the other's credentials. Sure.Not, as we have heard a number of times here on this forum, "What department do you work for?"No, it was, according to the chief's letter, some form of"Can I see your credentials?" Uh-huh. Suuuuuuure.

The Chief's letter is riddled with inconsistencies. Justrequire any naysayers to explain 'em.

In fact, you almost wouldn't have to require a naysayer to explain the inconsistencies. About all you might have to do is ask, "Did you ever see the inconsistency-laden letter the Chief wrote after his internal investigation? You might want to read that before you support them much."

Just lay the question in there real off-handed. Almost as if you are concerned for the naysayer. I'll bet you generate enough doubt that he either never mentions it again, or he goes looking for that letter.

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Hawkflyer wrote:

nova wrote:

...SNIP
Went to Guns and Ammo Warehouse afterward, saw longwatch (always good to see you ) and headed home.

SNIP...

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Um... You did know that Longwatch IS ONE of the "Tonys 7" did you not?:what:

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of course. I know a few (eta:...turns out I know them all) of the 7. None I would ever call a**clowns or any other derogatory name. I almost wonder if the guy I was talking to was the part time employee of which he was speaking... :uhoh:

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I apologize about one of our ill-informed employees who apparentely does not know the law, He'll be getting educated today. Also the retired LEO that works at the store about 2 days per year was NOT one of the responding officers at Tonys that night.

Stay Safe,
Robb

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So has anyone spoken to Bernie about their experiences?

I have to think that he would be interested in fixing these problems.

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Thanks Robb. It's good to see you guys staying on top of things. Guess that's that good customer service being shown again

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ok here's the applicable fed and VA laws that were the subject of confusion:

Fed:

http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/i/atf-i-5300-2.pdf

18 U.S.C. 922(x) (x)
(1) It shall be unlawful for a person to sell, deliver, or otherwise transfer to a person who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe is a juvenile—
(A) a handgun; or
(B) ammunition that is suitable for use only in a handgun.
(2) It shall be unlawful for any person who is a juvenile to knowingly possess-- (A) a handgun; or
(B) ammunition that is suitable for use only in a handgun.
.......
(5) For purposes of this subsection, the term
“juvenile” means a person who is less than 18
years of age.

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State law:

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-308.7

§ 18.2-308.7. Possession or transportation of certain firearms by persons under the age of 18; penalty.
It shall be unlawful for any person under 18 years of age to knowingly and intentionally possess or transport a handgun or assault firearm anywhere in the Commonwealth.

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http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-309

18.2-309. Furnishing certain weapons to minors; penalty.
.......
B. If any person sells, barters, gives or furnishes, or causes to be sold, bartered, given or furnished, to any minor a handgun, having good cause to believe him to be a minor, such person shall be guilty of a Class 6 felony. This subsection shall not apply to any transfer made between family members or for the purpose of engaging in a sporting event or activity.

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nova wrote:

ok here's the applicable fed and VA laws that were the subject of confusion:

18.2-309. Furnishing certain weapons to minors; penalty.
.......
B. If any person sells, barters, gives or furnishes, or causes to be sold, bartered, given or furnished, to any minor a handgun, having good cause to believe him to be a minor, such person shall be guilty of a Class 6 felony. This subsection shall not apply to any transfer made between family members or for the purpose of engaging in a sporting event or activity.

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That's a sad commentary on how low we've sunk. My first gun was a Savage target rifle given me by my Fathers Law Partner.

Lucky it was before the Huns took over the state.:X

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Citizen wrote:

Yes. Philip and VCDL did go back after the Chief's letter/formal report to protest.A few less people, but still packed the hall. Quite a few spoke. It may even be on YouTube. I think one of the executive members taped it.

City Council never did anything about it. I have this vague recollection the Mayor may have verbally commented or written that he accepted the Chief's letter/report.

Latera VCDL'er spoke ata public hearing aboutthe police department (the hearing wasabout the police department), re-opening the wound for the Chief by publicly callingon him to explain the obvious inconsistenciesin hisletter/report.

After that, the matter was dropped as far as I know.

But, the biggest development is the one that never happened: since then not one single OCer has been harassed by Manassas PD. Not one report of OCer harassment has surfaced. So, even though "it never happened", the police know what went down, especially the command structure, and I am quite sure the word went out that whatever didn't happen had better not happen again.

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I was under the impression the matter was dropped since:

1.) The City Council didn't feel there was any need for action.
2.) For personal and professional reasons, none of the Tony's 7 filed formal complaints with the police department.

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rlh2005 wrote:

Citizen wrote:

Yes. Philip and VCDL did go back after the Chief's letter/formal report to protest.A few less people, but still packed the hall. Quite a few spoke. It may even be on YouTube. I think one of the executive members taped it.

City Council never did anything about it. I have this vague recollection the Mayor may have verbally commented or written that he accepted the Chief's letter/report.

Latera VCDL'er spoke ata public hearing aboutthe police department (the hearing wasabout the police department), re-opening the wound for the Chief by publicly callingon him to explain the obvious inconsistenciesin hisletter/report.

After that, the matter was dropped as far as I know.

But, the biggest development is the one that never happened: since then not one single OCer has been harassed by Manassas PD. Not one report of OCer harassment has surfaced. So, even though "it never happened", the police know what went down, especially the command structure, and I am quite sure the word went out that whatever didn't happen had better not happen again.

Click to expand...

I was under the impression the matter was dropped since:

1.) The City Council didn't feel there was any need for action.
2.) For personal and professional reasons, none of the Tony's 7 filed formal complaints with the police department.

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At least two, maybe three formal complaints were filed.

In fact, the chief's lettershown at the VCDL link that I have been referring to was the chief's response to the formal complaintants.

Now that you mention it, I also recallthat some of the OCers didn't want to complain because it might cause problems with anti-gun or pro-police connections they had. But, plainly some didfile formal complaints.

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Citizen wrote:

rlh2005 wrote:

I was under the impression the matter was dropped since:

1.) The City Council didn't feel there was any need for action.
2.) For personal and professional reasons, none of the Tony's 7 filed formal complaints with the police department.

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At least two, maybe three formal complaints were filed.

In fact, the chief's lettershown at the VCDL link that I have been referring to was the chief's response to the formal complaintants.

Now that you mention it, I also recallthat some of the OCers didn't want to complain because it might cause problems with anti-gun or pro-police connections they had. But, plainly some didfile formal complaints.

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My apologies for not having my facts straight.

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gotm4 wrote:

I apologize about one of our ill-informed employees who apparentely does not know the law, He'll be getting educated today.  Also the retired LEO that works at the store about 2 days per year was NOT one of the responding officers at Tonys that night.

Stay Safe,
Robb

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And this is just one of the MANY reasons that I mainly shop at VA Arms.

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FYI, third anniversary of this event was Wednesday the 13th of January.

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markand wrote:

FYI, third anniversary of this event was Wednesday the 13th of January.

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Ah the leather anniversary, so treat yourself to new OC holster! It is interesting how many people still talk about it, or try to tell me what happened not knowing I was there. Officer Hyland has even been a customer in my shop a few times but neither he nor I mentioned that evening.

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lol. I bet that has a bit of awkward silent moments involved when it happens, or really short conversations.

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longwatch wrote:

markand wrote:

FYI, third anniversary of this event was Wednesday the 13th of January.

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Ah the leather anniversary, so treat yourself to new OC holster! It is interesting how many people still talk about it, or try to tell me what happened not knowing I was there. Officer Hyland has even been a customer in my shop a few times but neither he nor I mentioned that evening.

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I've had positive run-ins with FCPD who responded to that 911 call at Champps in Reston prior to the Tony's Pizza incident, and another who said he responded to the call at Burke Lake Park (the shield and helicopter response). Both conversations were very positive.

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The Great OCDO picnic and police airshow was interesting and the FCPD for their massive presence kept their distance and only interacted with the group after most of the officers rolled out. No police force is perfect but I'd rather deal with the FCPD than most others.