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Thread: HB 1070: Carrying of concealed handguns in emergency shelters

  1. #1
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...101+sum+HB1070

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    Carrying of concealed handguns in emergency shelters. Provides that a person who has a valid concealed handgun permit may not be barred from carrying a concealed handgun in any place or facility designated or used by the Governor, any political subdivision of the Commonwealth, or any other governmental entity as an emergency shelter or for the purpose of sheltering persons.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    TFred wrote:
    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...101+sum+HB1070

    Full Text

    Carrying of concealed handguns in emergency shelters. Provides that a person who has a valid concealed handgun permit may not be barred from carrying a concealed handgun in any place or facility designated or used by the Governor, any political subdivision of the Commonwealth, or any other governmental entity as an emergency shelter or for the purpose of sheltering persons.
    Geeeezzzez

    who has a valid concealed handgun permit who has a valid concealed handgun permit who has a valid concealed handgun permit who has a valid concealed handgun permit who has a valid concealed handgun permit who has a valid concealed handgun permit who has a valid concealed handgun permit who has a valid concealed handgun permitwho has a valid concealed handgun permit who has a valid concealed handgun permit who has a valid concealed handgun permit who has a valid concealed handgun permitwho has a valid concealed handgun permit who has a valid concealed handgun permit who has a valid concealed handgun permit who has a valid concealed handgun permitwho has a valid concealed handgun permit who has a valid concealed handgun permit who has a valid concealed handgun permit who has a valid concealed handgun permit:X



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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Seems like it would be much better to just grant emergency shelters the same sort of protection afforded by 15.2-915.

    TFred


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    Agreed
    illegal ≠ immoral legal ≠ moral
    [SIZE=1]"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself. "Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent." - Thomas Jefferson
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    Regular Member The Wolfhound's Avatar
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    Considering that shelters are gun free zones and currently ban firearms carriers entry, period, this would be a small victory. Yeah I know it does not go far enough, but.........
    Appleseed, Virginia State Coordinator
    Are you a Rifleman yet?
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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    The Wolfhound wrote:
    Considering that shelters are gun free zones and currently ban firearms carriers entry, period, this would be a small victory. Yeah I know it does not go far enough, but.........
    I repeat..



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    This bill was put in for VCDL. Sometimes you need to start somewhere and expand from there. This protect 204,000 concealed handgun permit holders. That's a whole lot better than ZERO gun owners.

    You can always throw your permit in the trash during such an emergency shelter situation and leave your gun at home in protest.

    Not me.

    Once we have items like this in place, we can always come back for non-permit holders as we did with preemption laws in 2003 and 2004.

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    Regular Member paramedic70002's Avatar
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    Most shelters are schools. How is that going to wash out?
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!

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    Read the bill

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    VCDL President wrote:
    This bill was put in for VCDL. Sometimes you need to start somewhere and expand from there. This protect 204,000 concealed handgun permit holders. That's a whole lot better than ZERO gun owners.

    You can always throw your permit in the trash during such an emergency shelter situation and leave your gun at home in protest.

    Not me.

    Once we have items like this in place, we can always come back for non-permit holders as we did with preemption laws in 2003 and 2004.
    There's some merit in that argument, but a lot of extremely dangerous speculation also.
    Concealed weapons laws were a BIG problem in this state. VCDL was the major force in reforming them.

    However, open carry has always been a right in Virginia, Sure some localities tried to curtail it, but had very spotty success because it was a right. Concealed has always been considered a privilege and one many areas abused.

    Shall issue corrected that to a great extent but left some gaping holes that still need filling. The case of the member here, being denied because the Sheriff doesn't like his record, is one. VCDL supported a limitation that would have cleared that up several years ago, and it died. That needs work and I don't see it on the legislative platter.

    At any rate Concealed Carry is just that, concealed carry. It should be made easier to obtain until it can be done without a permit. End of story.

    It should NOT be used as a building block for an elite class of gun owners...Even as a first step. Creating that type of foundation for future work, only guarantees the end of gun RIGHTS in Virginia.

    Sorry, but the road to Hell is paved with good intentions.



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    VCDL has a question on its candidate surveys asking if they will support Alaska style carry. We hope to get rid of permit requirements someday fixing your concerns. But there is the mean time and I don't see it taking us to hell to allow CHP holders to move forward on the tougher issues.

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    Regular Member simmonsjoe's Avatar
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    VCDL President wrote:
    VCDL has a question on its candidate surveys asking if they will support Alaska style carry. We hope to get rid of permit requirements someday fixing your concerns. But there is the mean time and I don't see it taking us to hell to allow CHP holders to move forward on the tougher issues.
    +1
    illegal ≠ immoral legal ≠ moral
    [SIZE=1]"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself. "Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent." - Thomas Jefferson
    G19 Gen 4; Bersa Thunder 380; Sig Sauer P238; Kel-Tec su-16c

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    One minor issue, the government by law does not run the shelter. The building being used is temporally transfered lock, stock and barrel to the Red Cross. In other words they own the building only during the shelter use.

    Government employees who are trained by the Red Cross may and will staff the building, however the building is under complete control of the Red Cross.

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    kenny wrote:
    One minor issue, the government by law does not run the shelter. The building being used is temporally transfered lock, stock and barrel to the Red Cross. In other words they own the building only during the shelter use.

    Government employees who are trained by the Red Cross may and will staff the building, however the building is under complete control of the Red Cross.
    Do you know the code section that covers that?

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    VCDL President wrote:
    kenny wrote:
    One minor issue, the government by law does not run the shelter. The building being used is temporally transfered lock, stock and barrel to the Red Cross. In other words they own the building only during the shelter use.

    Government employees who are trained by the Red Cross may and will staff the building, however the building is under complete control of the Red Cross.
    Do you know the code section that covers that?
    Never researched it other than standard SOP for disaster operations. RC takes command and control of all buildings used as a shelter and/or other disaster duties. Primarily applies to school and churches used for disaster relief. In the city it would apply to Arthur Ashe, Convention Center and Coliseum, all which are designated shelters in the city.

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    peter nap wrote:
    VCDL President wrote:
    This bill was put in for VCDL. Sometimes you need to start somewhere and expand from there. This protect 204,000 concealed handgun permit holders. That's a whole lot better than ZERO gun owners.

    You can always throw your permit in the trash during such an emergency shelter situation and leave your gun at home in protest.

    Not me.

    Once we have items like this in place, we can always come back for non-permit holders as we did with preemption laws in 2003 and 2004.
    There's some merit in that argument, but a lot of extremely dangerous speculation also.
    Concealed weapons laws were a BIG problem in this state. VCDL was the major force in reforming them.

    However, open carry has always been a right in Virginia, Sure some localities tried to curtail it, but had very spotty success because it was a right. Concealed has always been considered a privilege and one many areas abused.

    Shall issue corrected that to a great extent but left some gaping holes that still need filling. The case of the member here, being denied because the Sheriff doesn't like his record, is one. VCDL supported a limitation that would have cleared that up several years ago, and it died. That needs work and I don't see it on the legislative platter.

    At any rate Concealed Carry is just that, concealed carry. It should be made easier to obtain until it can be done without a permit. End of story.

    It should NOT be used as a building block for an elite class of gun owners...Even as a first step. Creating that type of foundation for future work, only guarantees the end of gun RIGHTS in Virginia.

    Sorry, but the road to Hell is paved with good intentions.

    I assume you noticed that several of the bills we had put in weren't just for CHP holders? The school bill lowering the penalty for carrying without malice and the carry in a courthouse bill after hours were both for open and concealed carriers. We are trying to make headway in all aspects.


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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    VCDL President wrote:
    peter nap wrote:
    VCDL President wrote:
    I assume you noticed that several of the bills we had put in weren't just for CHP holders? The school bill lowering the penalty for carrying without malice and the carry in a courthouse bill after hours were both for open and concealed carriers. We are trying to make headway in all aspects.
    Yes, I did notice! Those particular bills don't mean much to me, but they are Good for all gun owners in Virginia and as such support it completely. The same with a number of other pieces of legislation.

    Don't get me wrong. You haven't heard or will hear any criticism of VCDL. I'm a proud member and support it fully. I also have no issues with CHP permit holders. Letting mine go had nothing to do with protesting. I just don't like asking for permission. It's called a bad attitude. I don't need a CHP so why have one. I also don't have a CDL or Contractors License for the same reason.

    I am deeply concerned with Perks for Permits. IMO, they are more dangerous than all the dogooders put together. I was doing some research on the Sullivan Act early this morning and the progression of Canadian gun laws. There were a lot of the same warning signs with both. I had to chuckle when I saw that Schumer is one of the ELITE gun owners in NY.
    Perks for Permits are NOT good for all gun owners. Only CHP holders and they set a dangerous precedent.

    I've caught a lot of flak from OV members about this and the simple fact is, we are NOT a gun lobby. Pro Gun yes, but aside from supporting VCDL's agenda and a few bills that are special, our interests are in other areas. Kinda hard to lobby alternate energy, waste water, farming and game laws, while fussing about anti gun bills.
    Any opinions on the Gun bills are mine personally, both pro and con.

    HB1070 is a personal opinion. I have no problem with the concept. There isn't anything on Gods Green Earth that could get me into a shelter so why would I care if CHP's only bring guns in. What I do care about is the list of things a CHP's can do that the unwashed masses can't. This list gets bigger every year and every year, it's considered a first step.

    Of course, the answer could be for me to just go and get a CHP. That way I could enjoy the perks and the rest of the world that doesn't care to have one can go to Hell. But then I'd be part of the problem plus I'd be carrying a firearm by permission.

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    peter nap wrote:
    VCDL President wrote:
    peter nap wrote:
    VCDL President wrote:
    I assume you noticed that several of the bills we had put in weren't just for CHP holders? The school bill lowering the penalty for carrying without malice and the carry in a courthouse bill after hours were both for open and concealed carriers. We are trying to make headway in all aspects.
    Yes, I did notice! Those particular bills don't mean much to me, but they are Good for all gun owners in Virginia and as such support it completely. The same with a number of other pieces of legislation.

    Don't get me wrong. You haven't heard or will hear any criticism of VCDL. I'm a proud member and support it fully. I also have no issues with CHP permit holders. Letting mine go had nothing to do with protesting. I just don't like asking for permission. It's called a bad attitude. I don't need a CHP so why have one. I also don't have a CDL or Contractors License for the same reason.

    I am deeply concerned with Perks for Permits. IMO, they are more dangerous than all the dogooders put together. I was doing some research on the Sullivan Act early this morning and the progression of Canadian gun laws. There were a lot of the same warning signs with both. I had to chuckle when I saw that Schumer is one of the ELITE gun owners in NY.
    Perks for Permits are NOT good for all gun owners. Only CHP holders and they set a dangerous precedent.

    I've caught a lot of flak from OV members about this and the simple fact is, we are NOT a gun lobby. Pro Gun yes, but aside from supporting VCDL's agenda and a few bills that are special, our interests are in other areas. Kinda hard to lobby alternate energy, waste water, farming and game laws, while fussing about anti gun bills.
    Any opinions on the Gun bills are mine personally, both pro and con.

    HB1070 is a personal opinion. I have no problem with the concept. There isn't anything on Gods Green Earth that could get me into a shelter so why would I care if CHP's only bring guns in. What I do care about is the list of things a CHP's can do that the unwashed masses can't. This list gets bigger every year and every year, it's considered a first step.

    Of course, the answer could be for me to just go and get a CHP. That way I could enjoy the perks and the rest of the world that doesn't care to have one can go to Hell. But then I'd be part of the problem plus I'd be carrying a firearm by permission.
    It's not really the unwashed masses - as long as you have $50 in your pocket and have some training and aren't a criminal, you can get a CHP. Not an elitist thing. The very poor, though, might have a hard time coming up with the fees and finding a gun that is affordable enough.

    However, I am not saying that I wouldn't want all permitting to go the way of the dinosaur and VCDL recognizes the potential problems with it. Our primary goal has been to make sure that the requirements to get a permit are not pushed out of reach and, at the same time, working to open up the laws for as many gun owners as we can. Sometimes that is only CHP holders, other times it is for everyone. But rest assured we are not a CHP only group and will not be satisfied until any law-abiding citizen who wants a gun can carry one wherever they may go.

  19. #19
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    And here is the "real world reason" why we need to have HB 1070 make it into law.

    This notice went out via e-mail to subscribers just a couple hours ago:

    King George County is making preparations to open an emergency shelter. AT THIS TIME THE SHELTER IS NOT OPEN. In the event a shelter is opened it will be located at the Citizens Center at 8076 Kings Hwy, located next to Fire and Rescue Company 1. Citizens that lose power/heat are encouraged to use the shelter. No guns or pets (expect service animals) are allowed in the shelter. King George County will make arrangements for pet sheltering, as needed. Adults will need a form of ID. Citizens are asked to bring prescription medications, personal care items, snacks, and any medical devices. Infants and children need extra items to include toys and any specialized food/formula. Citizens are asked to call 540-775-XXXX or 540-775-XXXX for further information. An announcement will be sent out if a shelter is opened.

    Steven T Lynd
    Lieutenant/ Deputy Emergency Management Coordinator
    King George County Department of Fire, Rescue and Emergency Services
    8122 Kings Hwy
    King George, Va 22485
    Sent by Steven Lynd to All users (e-mail accounts, pagers, cell phones) through King George Alert
    The law, as currently written, makes this prohibition perfectly legal.

    TFred

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    TFred wrote:
    And here is the "real world reason" why we need to have HB 1070 make it into law.

    This notice went out via e-mail to subscribers just a couple hours ago:

    King George County is making preparations to open an emergency shelter. AT THIS TIME THE SHELTER IS NOT OPEN. In the event a shelter is opened it will be located at the Citizens Center at 8076 Kings Hwy, located next to Fire and Rescue Company 1. Citizens that lose power/heat are encouraged to use the shelter. No guns or pets (expect service animals) are allowed in the shelter. King George County will make arrangements for pet sheltering, as needed. Adults will need a form of ID. Citizens are asked to bring prescription medications, personal care items, snacks, and any medical devices. Infants and children need extra items to include toys and any specialized food/formula. Citizens are asked to call 540-775-XXXX or 540-775-XXXX for further information. An announcement will be sent out if a shelter is opened.

    Steven T Lynd
    Lieutenant/ Deputy Emergency Management Coordinator
    King George County Department of Fire, Rescue and Emergency Services
    8122 Kings Hwy
    King George, Va 22485
    Sent by Steven Lynd to All users (e-mail accounts, pagers, cell phones) through King George Alert
    The law, as currently written, makes this prohibition perfectly legal.

    TFred
    I just leave the room when those bills start being discussed. Other than just being another P4P, it won't bother me.
    I've been through floods, forest fires, hurricanes, tornado s, droughts, blizzards, ice storms, and a few things not worth mentioning. I haven't asked anyone for help yet...Not likely I'll do it in the future.

  21. #21
    Campaign Veteran roscoe13's Avatar
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    TFred wrote:
    And here is the "real world reason" why we need to have HB 1070 make it into law.

    This notice went out via e-mail to subscribers just a couple hours ago:

    King George County is making preparations to open an emergency shelter. AT THIS TIME THE SHELTER IS NOT OPEN. In the event a shelter is opened it will be located at the Citizens Center at 8076 Kings Hwy, located next to Fire and Rescue Company 1. Citizens that lose power/heat are encouraged to use the shelter. No guns or pets (expect service animals) are allowed in the shelter. King George County will make arrangements for pet sheltering, as needed. Adults will need a form of ID. Citizens are asked to bring prescription medications, personal care items, snacks, and any medical devices. Infants and children need extra items to include toys and any specialized food/formula. Citizens are asked to call 540-775-XXXX or 540-775-XXXX for further information. An announcement will be sent out if a shelter is opened.

    Steven T Lynd
    Lieutenant/ Deputy Emergency Management Coordinator
    King George County Department of Fire, Rescue and Emergency Services
    8122 Kings Hwy
    King George, Va 22485
    Sent by Steven Lynd to All users (e-mail accounts, pagers, cell phones) through King George Alert
    The law, as currently written, makes this prohibition perfectly legal.

    TFred
    Citation? Where in the law is this NOT prevented by preemption, assuming that the shelter is not a school, courthouse or otherwise prohibited area?

    Thanks...

    Roscoe13
    "The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good." - George Washington

  22. #22
    Regular Member Virginiaplanter's Avatar
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    ยง 44-146.15. Construction of chapter.
    Nothing in this chapter is to be construed to:
    3) Empower the Governor, any political subdivision, or any other governmental authority to in any way limit the rights of the people to keep and bear arms as guaranteed by Article I, Section 13 of the Constitution of Virginia or the Second Amendment of the Constitution of the United States, including the lawful possession, sale, or transfer of firearms except to the extent necessary to ensure public safety in any place or facility designated or used by the Governor, any political subdivision of the Commonwealth or any other governmental entity as an emergency shelter or for the purpose of sheltering persons;

  23. #23
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    roscoe13 wrote:
    Citation? Where in the law is this NOT prevented by preemption, assuming that the shelter is not a school, courthouse or otherwise prohibited area?

    Thanks...

    Roscoe13
    What Virginiaplanter said.

    If you go back to the original post of this thread, and click on the "Full Text" link, then from there, click on the "hilite" link in the upper right hand corner, you will see what HB 1070 intends to change in the existing law.

    Remember, preemption prohibits all local firearms regulations, other than those also in the code. This is one of those cases.

    Not all actions taken by local officials are solely authorized by local ordinances. In this case, the action is authorized by a state law.

    TFred


  24. #24
    Campaign Veteran roscoe13's Avatar
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    Thanks Virginiaplanter & TFred.
    "The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good." - George Washington

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