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Thread: Utah Minuteman Project!

  1. #1
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    Hey guys, I have just been asked to round up patriots! Some of you may know that the UMP meetings were/have been held in Salt Lake City, and surrounding cities. Well, we are setting up a Utah County Utah Minuteman group! Opencarry is MORE than welcome to the gatherings. (No gatherings are scheduled yet, as we do not have enough members.)

    Please PM me if you are interested in the Utah County UMP! Send your email and name, and I, or another member of UMP will respond. Thanks guys!

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    Need more info on the subject, or is it a secret?

  3. #3
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    Minutemen are Patriots, Constitutionalists. What sort of info would you like?

  4. #4
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    Where and when do you meet?
    email me.

  5. #5
    Regular Member Utah_Patriot's Avatar
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    Email me to
    Zach
    8014487574
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity"

  6. #6
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    Just registered for this site, what is Minuteman and UMP please? Also is it really leagal to OC in Utah as long as there is no round chambered? (Please excuss me ignorance)

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    yup, if you have a semi-automatic, as long as there isn't one chambered you are good to go... The actual law is "2 actions from firing", so 1 action would be racking a bullet into the chamber(cocking the gun), and the second step is pulling the trigger...

    If you have a CWP, you can open carry with one in the chamber. Just remember, stay 1000 feet away from schools (unless you have a CWP), don't go into federal buildings (post offices, etc), Jails/Prisons, the Mental Ward of a hospital, and (I think) courthouses.

    If you carry a revolver, there cannot be a round under the hammer, and there cannot be a round in the next slot.

  8. #8
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    jackalope kid wrote:
    Just registered for this site, what is Minuteman and UMP please? Also is it really leagal to OC in Utah as long as there is no round chambered? (Please excuss me ignorance)
    UMP stands for "Utah Minuteman Project". You can read about the Minuteman Project below.

    http://minutemanproject.com/

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minuteman_Project

    If you do not have a permit, you should make sure that your firearm does not meet Utah's definition of loaded. There are many places where you can carry loaded, but most play it safe. If you have a permit from any State, carry however you please! Welcome to OCDO!

    76-10-502. When weapon deemed loaded.
    (1) For the purpose of this chapter, any pistol, revolver, shotgun, rifle, or other weapon described in this part shall be deemed to be loaded when there is an unexpended cartridge, shell, or projectile in the firing position.
    (2) Pistols and revolvers shall also be deemed to be loaded when an unexpended cartridge, shell, or projectile is in a position whereby the manual operation of any mechanism once would cause the unexpended cartridge, shell, or projectile to be fired.
    (3) A muzzle loading firearm shall be deemed to be loaded when it is capped or primed and has a powder charge and ball or shot in the barrel or cylinders.


    "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." Robert A. Heinlein

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    YoZUpZ wrote:
    Mental Ward of a hospital
    Relatively few mental health facilities are off-limits. They have to have signs and lockers if they have a secure area, so it's pretty easy to tell the ones that are off-limits. In practice you just watch for the sign. If there is one, ask the receptionist where the locker for your gun is.

    It's not illegal to carry in a courthouse (the law allows them to establish secure areas, but Utah courthouses don't do it), but the courts will hold you in contempt if you do. However, it's not hard to remember this rule, because the police at the door with the metal detector and x-ray machine will remind you to take your gun back to your car :-)

  10. #10
    State Researcher Kevin Jensen's Avatar
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    swillden wrote:
    It's not illegal to carry in a courthouse (the law allows them to establish secure areas, but Utah courthouses don't do it), but the courts will hold you in contempt if you do. However, it's not hard to remember this rule, because the police at the door with the metal detector and x-ray machine will remind you to take your gun back to your car :-)
    What is your opinion on this. I understand that the Legislature has given Courts of Record to regulate firearm. What about Justice Courts? How do you think it would play out if somebody challenged their "secure area" and fought it in the legal system?



    78A-2-203. Rules -- Right to make -- Limitation -- Security.
    (1) Every court of record may make rules, not inconsistent with law, for its own government and the government of its officers; but such rules must neither impose any tax or charge upon any legal proceeding nor give any allowance to any officer for service.
    (2) (a) The judicial council may provide, through the rules of judicial administration, for security in or about a courthouse or courtroom, or establish a secure area as prescribed in Section 76-8-311.1.
    (b) (i) If the council establishes a secure area under Subsection (2)(a), it shall provide a secure firearms storage area on site so that persons with lawfully carried firearms may store them while they are in the secure area.
    (ii) The entity operating the facility with the secure area shall be responsible for the firearms while they are stored in the storage area referred to in Subsection (2)(b)(i).
    (iii) The entity may not charge a fee to individuals for storage of their firearms under Subsection (2)(b)(i).
    (3) (a) Unless authorized by the rules of judicial administration, any person who knowingly or intentionally possesses a firearm, ammunition, or dangerous weapon within a secure area established by the judicial council under this section is guilty of a third degree felony.
    (b) Any person is guilty of violating Section 76-10-306 who transports, possesses, distributes, or sells an explosive, chemical, or incendiary device, as defined by Section 76-10-306, within a secure area, established by the Judicial Council under this section.

    78A-1-101. Courts of justice enumerated -- Courts of record enumerated.
    (1) The following are the courts of justice of this state:
    (a) the Supreme Court;
    (b) the Court of Appeals;
    (c) the district courts;
    (d) the juvenile courts; and
    (e) the justice courts.
    (2) All courts are courts of record, except the justice courts, which are courts not of record.



    "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." Robert A. Heinlein

  11. #11
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    SGT Jensen wrote:
    swillden wrote:
    It's not illegal to carry in a courthouse (the law allows them to establish secure areas, but Utah courthouses don't do it), but the courts will hold you in contempt if you do. However, it's not hard to remember this rule, because the police at the door with the metal detector and x-ray machine will remind you to take your gun back to your car :-)
    What is your opinion on this. I understand that the Legislature has given Courts of Record to regulate firearm. What about Justice Courts? How do you think it would play out if somebody challenged their "secure area" and fought it in the legal system?
    I think they'd lose.

    For a full understanding of the issue, read this: http://www.utahbar.org/barjournal200...y_2003_11.html

    For those who don't want to read the whole Utah Bar Journal article, I'll summarize.

    The courts aren't blithely ignoring the requirement for signs and lockers at courthouse secure areas (yes, this does relate to judicial courts; I'll get there). In fact, they started addressing the issue as soon as the bill that established those requirements was proposed, well before it passed.

    The Utah State Judicial Council, which is a group established by law to set up administrative rules for Utah courts (all of them, courts of record and judicial courts), was concerned that it would be impractical to abide by the requirements of the law, and that if they didn't abide by the requirements that they might have to choose not to have "secure areas".

    The Utah Sixth District court issued a general order in May, 2002 recommending that courts not establish secure areas as provided by the legislature. At all! Instead, the order included a finding that providing security for court operations is a "core or essential" function of the authority of the courts.

    What does that matter?

    Well, under Utah's constitution, the three branches of the government (executive, legislative and judicial) are equal. They have interactions, and in some areas one branch gets to make decisions which another branch must abide by, but no branch is wholly subservient to any other. This is a key principle of the system of checks and balances.

    It was established in a 1902 ruling (Young v. Salt Lake City) that where the "core or essential" functions of one branch overlap with the authority of another branch, the one branch can't tell the other what to do. In this case, if providing security is a "core or essential" function of the judicial branch, then the legislature does not have the authority to tell the judiciary how to do its job.

    Therefore, the 2002 order recommended that the statutory secure area provisions provided by the legislature not be used and that, instead, the courts use their own authority to define, implement and enforce secure areas. Enforcement was to be done through the court's contempt power.

    The Judicial Council endorsed the 2002 order and it became the official policy for all courthouses in the state. Each courthouse has a Local Security Plan which is defined by the local judges, under the statewide guidelines.

    The question of whether or not security is a "core or essential" function has not been taken to the Utah Supreme Court, but it's pretty reasonable to expect that the judges there would agree with their fellows on the council. If that ever happens, then the matter will be completely settled.

    So, the current state of affairs is that no courthouse in the state has a "secure area" as defined by 76-8-311.1, so it's not a crime to carry there, but if you did you'd be jailed for contempt of court. As a practical matter, you'd have a hard time getting past the cops with their metal detectors and x-ray machines.

  12. #12
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    TY Sgt. Jensen! Are you on board as well? I OCed to one of the 9-12 project meetings recently (I THINK I told you guys)

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